Project 52 by Wendy (ScoutR)

[Donald]

I am interested in Donald's comment on pulling back the blacks to grey. How do you do that, Donald?

What I'm meaning, John, depends on the histogram of the picture that came out of the camera.

Where does the left-hand side of the histogram begin? Is it right up against the left-hand side, or is it in from the edge a bit; i.e. are there blacks or or is the darkest tone somewhere down from that (if we were talking Zone System) we'd be asking if the darkest points were at 1 or or somewhere around 2 or 3.

If the latter then we have 'wriggle-room; i.e. room for manoeuvre.


Perceived wisdom states that an image needs blacks and it needs whites. So, to achieve that, you need to make sure that, if necessary, the left-hand edge is pulled in so that it meets the starting point of the histogram. Then you have got a true black. Ditto for whites.

But what if you don't do that? What do you do to the mood of the picture if you leave the darkest part of the image on what would, in Zone System 'speak' be Zone 2 or 3 and not adjust it so that it sits to zone 1?

So, what I'm pondering upon in relation to Wendy's image is what the impact would be of making the blacks less black.

[ScoutR]

I took the liberty of downloading your photo and editing it in SilverEfex Pro. I also cropped it slightly. Hope I didn't overstep any boundaries. Is this closer to what you envisioned? Or did I go completely wrong? :-)

No problem John, in most threads I would not mind at all. I don't mind that you edited this one, but as Dave said in the FAQ for Project 52. These threads are going to be fairly long, so I'd prefer to keep edits out of my Project 52 thread. Feel free to send something via PM though. I appreciate you taking the time and I appreciate your feedback, so feel free to comment anytime and edit any of my shots in any other thread except project 52. No problem at all keeping this one in here.

Mod Edit: post with picture moved to a separate thread here (with copy of this post)

We seem to be like minded when it comes to the black portions of this shot. However I've done a rework (soon to be posted with adjustments and histogram) and I really do like the lighter version better. The dark was kind of symbolic to me, but... well let me know what you think when I get the rework posted

Thanks again
Wendy

[ScoutR]

Excellent feedback on this shot. Thanks so much everyone. I am not going to reply to each person separately, but just want you all to know that I read and took all replies into consideration when I did the rework. Let me know what you think.
At an emotional level this shot will never be where I want it to be, but I've had this type of thing in mind for awhile and have tried various attempts at the same type of thing. This is the closest I've come to getting the feeling I want, so that's something. For now though I will be happy with a not bad shot of a person walking on a trail in the winter.

Rework #1: in Lightroom Cropped, Added Fill Light, decreased contrast, adjusted black point so nothing is completely black, used tone curve to brighten lights, shadows and darks. In Elements just some dodging on the midtones and highlights on the coat of the subject and burning in some of the tree trunks.


MillRace-3561-2Rework by Wendy FS, on Flickr

Rework #2: same as above but with a different crop and added vignette


MillRace-3561-3_ReworkVignette by Wendy FS, on Flickr

Here are the histograms for the 3 shots.

Original: from the jpg, spikes are from the black frame (I think)

Original by Wendy FS, on Flickr

Rework: no pure blacks and just a few blown highlights in the snow near the subject
Rework by Wendy FS, on Flickr

Vignette: note blown highlights are at edges of frame on vignette only

Vignette by Wendy FS, on Flickr


Conclusion:
Although it's missing many of the elements that I purposely wanted in this image I do like the rework. I wanted more path behind the subject to show he had come a long way. I liked the darkness as a symbolic element to the story I was TRYING to tell, but to do that I think I have to get much better at PP OR work on the exposure in camera so I can keep the subject lighter but still have the darkness around him

I sort of kind of like the idea of the vignette, BUT I messed it up. It should be rounder, the top does not look right and also seems to look greyer after the upload. It's just an experiment though, so I'm not too worried about it.

I think this shot is getting a little overcooked. I've ended up playing around a lot more that I would want to do on most images, but that's the point of the project

As always, thanks to all the great feedback this have been a great learning experience for me. Feel free to comment, I'm still open to suggestions and ideas.

Wendy

[ScoutR]

I'm still mostly housebound so I've played around with PP this week. I liked the shot below because of the lone goose, but as I looked at it I wondered how it would look if one shot was reversed and then joined together. I had no idea how to do this (except for flipping the shot) so this is what I did.

1. opened both shots in Elements
2. increased the width of the canvas so I could move the right hand shot over and line it up with the shot on the left. Elements informed me that I had to convert to 8 bit to do this so I did.
3. lined up the shots
4. Did some cloning to try and smooth out the joined parts. This didn't work too well because I don't' think the cloning was working on both sides.
5. cropped the excess canvas
6. resized the image
7. tried to do some output sharpening, but found I had to do one side, remember the settings then select the other side and apply the same settings.
8. on the first shot Resized the canvas height to give me top and bottom borders.

I'm sure there is a better way to do this, so if anyone can point me in the right direction it's something I'd like to experiment with more in the future.


MillRace-3532 by Wendy FS, on Flickr

and one more


MillRace-3530 by Wendy FS, on Flickr

I think I am now caught up with my entries for project 52. My project for week 7 is to get a decent shot of the cartridge and/or stylus on the turntable I set up last week. I've wanted to do this for a long time, but the turntable has been packed away since I moved.

Wendy

[Goldcoastgolfer]

MillRace-3561-2Rework by Wendy FS, on Flickr

I like this one although i do agree that you lose that sense of depth that you were trying to achieve with this photo.

MillRace-3561-3_ReworkVignette by Wendy FS, on Flickr

I think the vignetting is too heavy. A less pronounced version might have a better effect. I think the blacks being turned up a bit more might work a bit better.

You're up to date with your Project 52 entries It's an interesting concept you've put together there. At first glance I really like what you've created - it looks like a ballet. However the more I look at the more I see the perfect symmetry which then makes me think it's a bit odd. Wish I could help with some advice however post processing is not my strong point so I'll leave it to the others to comment on that side of things!

[johnbharle]

What I'm meaning, John, depends on the histogram of the picture that came out of the camera.

Where does the left-hand side of the histogram begin? Is it right up against the left-hand side, or is it in from the edge a bit; i.e. are there blacks or or is the darkest tone somewhere down from that (if we were talking Zone System) we'd be asking if the darkest points were at 1 or or somewhere around 2 or 3.

If the latter then we have 'wriggle-room; i.e. room for manoeuvre.


Perceived wisdom states that an image needs blacks and it needs whites. So, to achieve that, you need to make sure that, if necessary, the left-hand edge is pulled in so that it meets the starting point of the histogram. Then you have got a true black. Ditto for whites.

But what if you don't do that? What do you do to the mood of the picture if you leave the darkest part of the image on what would, in Zone System 'speak' be Zone 2 or 3 and not adjust it so that it sits to zone 1?

So, what I'm pondering upon in relation to Wendy's image is what the impact would be of making the blacks less black.

Thanks Donald, that helps a lot!

[johnbharle]

Wendy, I really like the second geese picture. It has real balletic (sp?) feel to it. Reminds me of a christmas card. I'm not good at cloning, so I think you did well.

[Wendy Stanford]

Hi Wendy, PP is not my forte, but I like what you have done, I like the first image of the geese, the timber is a little distracting in the second,
I like the duo colour tones, they are miminal but look great

[SpiderBob]

Excellent feedback on this shot. Thanks so much everyone. I am not going to reply to each person separately, but just want you all to know that I read and took all replies into consideration when I did the rework. Let me know what you think.
At an emotional level this shot will never be where I want it to be, but I've had this type of thing in mind for awhile and have tried various attempts at the same type of thing. This is the closest I've come to getting the feeling I want, so that's something. For now though I will be happy with a not bad shot of a person walking on a trail in the winter.

Rework #1: in Lightroom Cropped, Added Fill Light, decreased contrast, adjusted black point so nothing is completely black, used tone curve to brighten lights, shadows and darks. In Elements just some dodging on the midtones and highlights on the coat of the subject and burning in some of the tree trunks.





Conclusion:
Although it's missing many of the elements that I purposely wanted in this image I do like the rework. I wanted more path behind the subject to show he had come a long way. I liked the darkness as a symbolic element to the story I was TRYING to tell, but to do that I think I have to get much better at PP OR work on the exposure in camera so I can keep the subject lighter but still have the darkness around him

I sort of kind of like the idea of the vignette, BUT I messed it up. It should be rounder, the top does not look right and also seems to look greyer after the upload. It's just an experiment though, so I'm not too worried about it.

I think this shot is getting a little overcooked. I've ended up playing around a lot more that I would want to do on most images, but that's the point of the project

As always, thanks to all the great feedback this have been a great learning experience for me. Feel free to comment, I'm still open to suggestions and ideas.

Wendy

After all said and done, I still like this one the best. I can feel for the person and place, I can relate with this one.

[Geoff F]

Wendy, your workflow for week 6 is much the same as I would do although I may do a couple of things slightly differently, although not using Elements.

#2. Increasing the canvas width is fine. Alternatively, I would probably have measured the first image, then created a new background at the required double size and pasted the images as layers. I don't think either method is right or wrong, but a new background would, I think, allow you to work with Tiff or Psd, etc format images.

#4. Before cloning the join, possibly with a Healing Brush, I think I would merge the layers so you are working on a complete background now. This would also, of course, simply apply sharpening to just one (now joined) background image.

But these scenes certainly work well the way you did it.

[Donald]

Now that is clever (as is the one after it). It just wouldn't enter my head to try something like that.

I sometimes think I lack imagination or am too conservative (with a small 'c'!). And it's that imaginative vision that I so admire (as well as the skill to do it well). How does it enter your head that you could do this with an image? Must be one of those left brain/right brain thingies.

[Sam Smith]

I agree with Donald Wendy that is clever and you picked the perfect scene to do it with. Very well thought out and executed.

[ScoutR]

I'm way behind again. My plan for week 7 did not work out... more about that later, so this shot is just one that was taken in the appropriate time period. I just liked the colours. Not so happy with the persepective, still working on that.


Red Barn by Wendy FS, on Flickr

Wendy

[ScoutR]

Taken this week. Just my usual walk around shot. It was quite windy and lots of blowing snow which doesn't really show up in the shot, but I think give a nice soft diffused light. The snow is a bit blue I think, but I could not overexpose because the sun was just too the right and is already a bit blown on that side.


Along The Tracks by Wendy FS, on Flickr

There I'm caught up with my shots again, and hope to get back in the next couple days to see what everyone else has been up to and catch up on replies and comments. I didn't think this would be so hectic, and I'm not even managing to set up the shots that I planned.

Wendy

[Donald]

I'm way behind again. My plan for week 7 did not work out... more about that later, so this shot is just one that was taken in the appropriate time period. I just liked the colours. Not so happy with the persepective, still working on that.


Red Barn by Wendy FS, on Flickr

Wendy

Sorry - Missed this.

I agree with your own analysis. I think a slightly different perspective would also have meant less of a 'big block' of a single, strong colour hitting us between the eyes.

[Donald]

Along The Tracks by Wendy FS, on Flickr

Gorgeous.

Simple looking. But that is the beauty of it and the skill of it. Seeing how a few basic elements can be brought together to make such a strong composition. I always think it takes a lot of very hard work to make, what seems, to be a simple image.

[Maritimer1]

Taken this week. Just my usual walk around shot. It was quite windy and lots of blowing snow which doesn't really show up in the shot, but I think give a nice soft diffused light. The snow is a bit blue I think, but I could not overexpose because the sun was just too the right and is already a bit blown on that side.


Along The Tracks by Wendy FS, on Flickr

There I'm caught up with my shots again, and hope to get back in the next couple days to see what everyone else has been up to and catch up on replies and comments. I didn't think this would be so hectic, and I'm not even managing to set up the shots that I planned.

Wendy

Wendy, to me that just perfectly captures the atmosphere of a winter day. The light creates the feeling that the sun is going down. I can feel the damp cold. If I were to do anything with this photo, I would just clone out the sun in the upper right and give the impression that it is late afternoon. It so accurately depicts winter in Canada.

The barn photo colours ARE great, including all the wonderful tones in the foundation.


Myra

[Geoff F]

With the barn, Wendy, I agree with you about trying a different angle.

Possibly move further to the right, maybe even shoot from a lower angle. You will still need something in the background, if that is possible. Alternatively a good sky.

And with week 8, I fear that if you try to brighten and whiten the snow it would throw everything else out; so I would stick with what you have.

[Goldcoastgolfer]

I'm way behind again. My plan for week 7 did not work out... more about that later, so this shot is just one that was taken in the appropriate time period. I just liked the colours. Not so happy with the persepective, still working on that.


Red Barn by Wendy FS, on Flickr

Wendy

It's definitely just the angle. Taken front on like that it gives the appearance of a flat photo without any depth. As Geoff mentioned, a few steps to the right to bring the side in and you would have had angled perspective lines running off into the distance and probably aligning with the objects near the horizon to give a much better feeling of depth. I think it needs a slight rotation too

[Goldcoastgolfer]

Taken this week. Just my usual walk around shot. It was quite windy and lots of blowing snow which doesn't really show up in the shot, but I think give a nice soft diffused light. The snow is a bit blue I think, but I could not overexpose because the sun was just too the right and is already a bit blown on that side.


Along The Tracks by Wendy FS, on Flickr

There I'm caught up with my shots again, and hope to get back in the next couple days to see what everyone else has been up to and catch up on replies and comments. I didn't think this would be so hectic, and I'm not even managing to set up the shots that I planned.

Wendy

Love this one - I think it looks great. If you're not happy with the blueness of the image perhaps playing with the white balance would help tak ethe edge off the blueness. Coming from a land of sun, sand, and surf though, I have no idea of what it should really look like