Last Light

Hi Kori & Trey,

Thanks for the kind words :)

Possibly part of the appeal is that many don't see shots like this too often - but honestly, they're not hard; they're just done to a certain recipe, almost to the point of not thinking too much about them. I hesitate to use the work "boring", but that's where they're heading!

It's really about 3 things being brought together ...

1. The agressive perspective offered by a WA lens (you need to get it about 18 inches off the ground so that the foreground rocks look bigger)

2. Capturing the full dynamic range of the shot (GND filters or bracketing)

3. Ensuring exposures are long enough to give the "mist" effect (which is really just waves surging over the rocks) - 2 to 4 minutes is ideal which can be from 1 exposure, or many joined together (9 for this shot).

Why don't you two try capturing something similar, and I'll see if I can give you a few pointers, feedback, and help with the processing, and see what we come up with?

Keeping in mind that processing critical too.

Colin -

Guess I need to order a filter now as my camera doesn't do bracketing(Nikon D40)... I have to manually adjust! ;)

My one question - that I don't get yet, and hope you can explain better is....
If you take 9 shots, how to you join them together? I understand the photo merge, but when pictures are taken in "still" shots.
If there are 9 shots won't the water be captured different in each shot then? If so, how do you join them to make it look like it was ONE shot??? Do you understand what I'm trying to say????:confused::confused: Sorry!

Kori :)

Colin,

When I get my camera in, I will definitely try it. I'm not even going to go there with my Minolta SLR :) But what is bracketing? I've never heard of that term, but i'm pretty sure my D60 won't do it (especially if Kori's D40 won't!) And that does seem pretty easy, but i'll have to give it a go. Thanks!

Respectfully,

Trey

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Originally Posted by batman44

Colin -

Guess I need to order a filter now as my camera doesn't do bracketing(Nikon D40)... I have to manually adjust! ;)

My one question - that I don't get yet, and hope you can explain better is....
If you take 9 shots, how to you join them together? I understand the photo merge, but when pictures are taken in "still" shots.
If there are 9 shots won't the water be captured different in each shot then? If so, how do you join them to make it look like it was ONE shot??? Do you understand what I'm trying to say????:confused::confused: Sorry!

Kori :)

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Hi Kori,

Really easy.

You open up all 9 in Photoshop - and use the move tool to flick 8 of them onto the other one (it stacks them as layers). Then you just change the opacity of the layers (100% for the bottom one - then 50% - 33% - 25% - 20% etc).

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Originally Posted by Shutterman

Colin,

When I get my camera in, I will definitely try it. I'm not even going to go there with my Minolta SLR :) But what is bracketing? I've never heard of that term, but i'm pretty sure my D60 won't do it (especially if Kori's D40 won't!) And that does seem pretty easy, but i'll have to give it a go. Thanks!

Respectfully,

Trey

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Hi Trey,

If you have a scene where the range of brightnesses is too much to capture in a single scene (quite common when your shooting into the light, but need to retain shadow detail in foreground objects) then you need to bracket the shots or use a filter.

Bracketing is simply 2 or more shots of the same thing, but with different exposures. eg 1 exposure might expose the foreground correctly, and a 2nd shot the background. You can then merge these into an high-dynamic range composite, or more simply, just transition between the two using a layer mask in Photoshop.

Colin-
thanks for the explaination. I use Corel Paint Shop, many features/command are similar to other programs. I will see what I can come up with. I have the manual and will dig it out if I can't on my own. I'm not one who likes to read instruction manuals when putting things together -Hubby hates that as he is an engineer!;) I try to just dig in on my own!

Kori :)

Colin,

Thanks. Sounds easy enough! :/ Can't wait to try it and see how it goes!!

Respectfully,

Trey

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Originally Posted by batman44

I use Corel Paint Shop

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Perhaps it's time we got rid of the training wheels and graduated you to Photoshop Elements or (with hand over heart as a symbolic gesture to mark the reverence of the occasion) Photoshop!

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Originally Posted by Shutterman

Colin,

Thanks. Sounds easy enough! :/ Can't wait to try it and see how it goes!!

Respectfully,

Trey

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The longest journey begins with the first step ...

1. You'll need a tripod and remote release

2. Use your widest-angle lens

3. Get the camera low to the ground and focus on something a few feet away (then switch to manual focus as the camera won't be able to focus accurately as the light levels drop).

4. Use aperture-priority mode (unless you can handle manual or even better, bulb mode), set to around F11 or F16

5. Increase the ISO until your shutterspeed is no more than 30 seconds

6. Wait until at least 5 min after the sun disappears

7. Take a number of shots (taking care not to move the camera between shots).

8. If you can vary the exposure a bit then so much the better. Be sure to adjust the exposure if you see large areas of blown highlights.

9. Post some of the results here to give us a starting point - I can help process the larger files later if they're worth doing.

PS: Don't under-estimate the power of good post-processing - take a look at what we achieved working from the RAW original that Yan sent me in this thread.

PPS: It'll all be SO much easier if you can shoot RAW?

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Originally Posted by Yan Zhang

I found out that to get such a misty effect on rocks (or other objects) from waves, the exposure time should be at least 60 seconds or more. By using GND and ND, such exposure time is achivable.

One thing I don't understand here is: what is the reason you took this picture with 9 shots, instead of just one shot with enough long time exposure?

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Hi Yan,

My apologies - I thought that I'd already answered this for you.

Yes - 60 seconds is probably a good minimum, although 4 minutes is better. Keep in mind though that often the problem with long exposures isn't the lack of light - it's too much light - and that's where multiple exposures come in ...

A single 4 minute exposure is no different to 8x 30 second blended exposures or 16 15 second exposures (did a little light just come on?).

A single exposure makes for less work on post processing, but it's riskier ... multiple shorter exposures give you more options and control:

- If you do one long exposure - and stuff up the metering - you may not have enough light to reshoot.

- If you get water on a filter part way through you can discard those shots

- You can also get undesireable effects when the exposure is TOO long - and this way gives you the option of controlling the outcome.

Does that help?

So to answer that question, I used 9 shots because the light was fading fast and I couldn't be sure of the exposure time I needed - so I had the camera on Av mode - once I could see that the first shot was OK I could then trust the camera to expose correctly for the rest of the sequence (the exposures started out at 10 sec and ended up at 13 sec).

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Originally Posted by Colin Southern

...

1. You'll need a tripod and remote release

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Hi Colin,

Nice recipe. Is this remote release the one I have or the one that you have? :p

I have the RC1 small $15 type.

And is that how you are able to get 9 shots with different exposures? My camera brackets but only for three shots. I assume if you touch the camera to adjust the exposure it will move it. Right?

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Originally Posted by Alis

Hi Colin,

Nice recipe. Is this remote release the one I have or the one that you have? :p

I have the RC1 small $15 type.

And is that how you are able to get 9 shots with different exposures? My camera brackets but only for three shots. I assume if you touch the camera to adjust the exposure it will move it. Right?

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Hi Ali,

I use a Canon TC80-N3 (the "TC" bit standing for "Timer / Counter"). If you use other ones then you'll either need to limit your exposures to 30 seconds or less, or use bulb mode and manually hold the button down whilst you time the shot manually. Canon require this be timed with a Rolex if your using a 1D series camera, but for a 5D2 you could get away with using an Omega or Tag-Heuer:p

In my case the shots aren't bracketed - they're all essentailly the same exposure (except for the fact that the metering choose 10 sec for some, and 13 sec for others) (only 1/3 stop change). The HDR "Range Compression" was done with the 3-Stop GND filter.

In terms of "touching / moving the camera" - it really depends on how careful you are, and how sturdy your tripod is; I try not to touch it, but on the occasions that I do, I usually get away with it. The weak point when photographing on boulders is that the bottom of the tripod can move easily - I usually have to keep quite still also so that none of the rocks around me move (that's where the timer can be handy - you can tell it to take X number of X duration shots at X interval - then go keep warm in the car while the camera does it's thing all by itself :)

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Originally Posted by Colin Southern

Does that help?

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Colin,

This is really helpful. Now I understand why people tend to use multiple exposures instead of just one shot with very long exposure for this type of scene. I indeed noted for a very long exposure, very often I could not control the light properly.

Thanks again.

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Originally Posted by Yan Zhang

Colin,

This is really helpful. Now I understand why people tend to use multiple exposures instead of just one shot with very long exposure for this type of scene. I indeed noted for a very long exposure, very often I could not control the light properly.

Thanks again.

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No worries Yan. I don't know how others do it to be honest - this is just my thinking on the topic. If you do use a single long exposure then you have to think about the duration a bit first; ...

... on one hand there's often a lot of lattitude with long exposures (eg if you think you need 4 min, 2 min and 8 min are only 1 stop different which can usually be compensated for in PP.

... but on the other hand, if you meter with a high ISO or wide aperture and then work backwards then it's usually close enough. If I have time I like to spot-meter with a light meter (for the brightest part of the scene) and then up-shift the exposure 2 stops (because the meter will tell you the correct reading for making the brigghtest part your metering a mid-tone, not a highlight) (if that makes sense).

If your in a rush then just use the histogram to indicate any degree of under-exposure (and use +EC to compensate) or if you get the "blinkies" then use -EC to compensate. Under-exposure is usually easier to deal with than over-exposure because over-exposure gives big colour issues in the highlight areas.

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Originally Posted by Colin Southern

Hi Ali,

Canon require this be timed with a Rolex if your using a 1D series camera, but for a 5D2 you could get away with using an Omega or Tag-Heuer:p

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Like Seinfeld's Kramer, I never wear a watch and tell the time by looking at the sun. Nights are of course a problem but they are only a few hours. So a few minutes is not going to be such a big deal for me even with a 5D MKII :p

But seriously, I have been using my cell phone as a watch now for at least a decade :)

Quote:

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In my case the shots aren't bracketed - they're all essentailly the same exposure (except for the fact that the metering choose 10 sec for some, and 13 sec for others) (only 1/3 stop change). The HDR "Range Compression" was done with the 3-Stop GND filter.

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Now I am getting lost. So the only reason you do multiple shots is to get that mist effect on the boulders?

You see, there is a lot of details in this and it is not that straightforward after all :D

Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Alis

Now I am getting lost. So the only reason you do multiple shots is to get that mist effect on the boulders?

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Have a read of post #50 in this thread :)

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Originally Posted by Colin Southern

Perhaps it's time we got rid of the training wheels and graduated you to Photoshop Elements or (with hand over heart as a symbolic gesture to mark the reverence of the occasion) Photoshop!

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Should have known better than to post that!!! ;)
I am just understand what my software can do....Please don't confuse me even more!!!!!! LOL. I think I would much rather invest my hard earned $ in maybe a VR Lens, filter....etc. Hoping to get to that point where my PP doesn't need soooo much work!:D

Kori :)

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Originally Posted by batman44

Should have known better than to post that!!! ;)
I am just understand what my software can do....Please don't confuse me even more!!!!!! LOL. I think I would much rather invest my hard earned $ in maybe a VR Lens, filter....etc. Hoping to get to that point where my PP doesn't need soooo much work!:D

Kori :)

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Sounds like a good plan -- so long as you can get the guideance and help you need PP wise. Like it or hate it, it's a fact of life that the vast majority are using PS and PSE :(, thus it's easier to get step-by-step instructions from these 2 products.

My first attempt as Colin had suggested many months ago :D
It was much colder than I anticipated so my visit was cut short- and then it started raining! The waves were pretty wild so I thought I would give it a whirl!
It's a little darker than I would like, but when I lighten it up, the soft look of the waves sort of go away.
I'll be practicing much more - and with better foreground and backgrounds! This is only about 5 miles from home so I can run over many many times to practice - I will need a lot of it I see.

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z...DSC_0002sm.jpg

Hi Kori,

Good on you for "grabbing the bull by the horns" and having a go :)

Some suggestions ...

- Try to get a composition where the "mist" isn't the majority of the shot - perhaps have the horizon at least 1/3 down from the top?

- Not sure how you ended up with the blue colouring - colourcast?

How many shots / what was the shutterspeed? Shot RAW?