The Kitsch Factor in Photoshopped Photos

[OldFrank]

Hi Frank,

It's called pixel binning, but most manufacturers are keeping quiet as to if they do it or not (loose translation: "they probably don't").

The problem as I see it is that adjacent pixels in a bayer CIA camera are red, blue, and two green.

So one final gasp of the engineer in me. How about the ultimate edit designed around the model of an Excel type spread sheet. Each pixel is a cell in the sheet showing all the information contain in it. With that we would have true "pixel" editing". Layers would be pages in the sheet. A good engineer/programmer could define any conceivable computations and logic on a one pixel at a time basis. Or each pixel could be manually manipulated one at a time.

Hmm, lets see 20 MPixels at maybe 5 minutes of editing each. It's beginning to sound like the old chemical dark room.

[Photon Hacker]

That's pointless, especially for a computer programmer or other engineer.

Using a spreadsheet like editing interface isn't a good solution to image processing with absolute control. Images are generally not edited pixel for pixel independently, which is what that abstraction would suggest. Messing with abstraction levels is a very bad practice in software. Not even the ordinary anti-aliased drawing tool works at the pixel level since the anti-aliasing usually implies altering several pixels adjacent to the dot (Note an anti-aliased dots need not to be located on a pixel dead center, they can be meaningfully placed at an arbitrary intermediate point between them).

To perform processing not already implemented in the relevant software a programmer can write an ad-hoc non interactive program that does what its required for the image and then finishes. Then, the actual editing process consists of the editing of the ad-hoc program or its parameters rather than interaction with a running copy of a generic image manipulation program through a graphical user interface. Note the ad-hoc program need not to be stand alone; it may be a script for a generic image manipulation program. The GIMP is scriptable in Scheme for instance.

For instance, the user may wish to apply a median filter where pixel values are weighted according to a Gaussian curve in the space domain. He may write a computer program to do so, with a CLI that accepts σ as the parameter which reads the input image from stdin in PPM format and writes it to stdout in PPM format as well. The equivalent to sliding a "σ" or "Radius" slider in a fully fledged editor having this feature would correspond to running the program with a different argument and visualizing the result.

This practice is nothing new by the way. Simple image manipulation programs can be a good way to experience computer programming. I think that knowing at least the basics of computer programming is very enriching for the intellect. Computer programming requires, and hence develops a way of thinking a class a part of what's used on almost everything else besides mathematics, to which related. Hence, if you have interest in computer programming/computer science, digital image processing, and related mathematics I encourage you to write custom software like the aforesaid; it will be an entertaining and enriching experience.

Regards.

[vladimir]

That's pointless, especially for a computer programmer or other engineer.
Using a spreadsheet like editing interface isn't a good solution to image processing with absolute control.

I am pretty sure it was a joke, when Frank proposed editing 20M pixel by hand in a spreadsheet. My back of the envelope calculation shows that 5 min per pixel edit like that would last about 190 years.
But somebody didn't get the joke... Sorry to point it out...

[OldFrank]

That's pointless, especially for a computer programmer or other engineer.

Using a spreadsheet like editing interface isn't a good solution to image processing with absolute control. Images are generally not edited pixel for pixel independently, which is what that abstraction would suggest. Messing with abstraction levels is a very bad practice in software. Not even the ordinary anti-aliased drawing tool works at the pixel level since the anti-aliasing usually implies altering several pixels adjacent to the dot (Note an anti-aliased dots need not to be located on a pixel dead center, they can be meaningfully placed at an arbitrary intermediate point between them).

To perform processing not already implemented in the relevant software a programmer can write an ad-hoc non interactive program that does what its required for the image and then finishes. Then, the actual editing process consists of the editing of the ad-hoc program or its parameters rather than interaction with a running copy of a generic image manipulation program through a graphical user interface. Note the ad-hoc program need not to be stand alone; it may be a script for a generic image manipulation program. The GIMP is scriptable in Scheme for instance.

For instance, the user may wish to apply a median filter where pixel values are weighted according to a Gaussian curve in the space domain. He may write a computer program to do so, with a CLI that accepts σ as the parameter which reads the input image from stdin in PPM format and writes it to stdout in PPM format as well. The equivalent to sliding a "σ" or "Radius" slider in a fully fledged editor having this feature would correspond to running the program with a different argument and visualizing the result.

This practice is nothing new by the way. Simple image manipulation programs can be a good way to experience computer programming. I think that knowing at least the basics of computer programming is very enriching for the intellect. Computer programming requires, and hence develops a way of thinking a class a part of what's used on almost everything else besides mathematics, to which related. Hence, if you have interest in computer programming/computer science, digital image processing, and related mathematics I encourage you to write custom software like the aforesaid; it will be an entertaining and enriching experience.

Regards.

I agree completely. By the way I am a programmer from way back. I started with the 8080 microprocessor and assembly language, same with the Apple II, then into DOS on the PC. Maybe that's why a pixel based editor didn't sound so weird. I'm used to working at the bit level so why not the pixel level. Much different than the object code of today. If the system had a bug I knew it was mine. I designed hardware and wrote the software package for a professional piece of Biofeedback equipment I sold for over 10 yrs. It measured physiological data like temperature, muscle contraction potentials, brain waves, etc. and processed them for real time graphic feedback to the user.

I was actually thinking the same thing you mentioned as far as using algorithms to process the data. I just thought it would be fun to look at it down and dirty.

By the way I'd be willing to bet that the FBI or CIA has software similar to what I suggested to analyze hidden stuff in images.

Thanks for giving me the heads up on GIMP. I need to take a look at it.

cheers,

[Colin Southern]

I started with the 8080 microprocessor and assembly language, same with the Apple II, then into DOS on the PC.

I started with the Z80 (Sinclair ZX80 & Osborne 1) before moving on to the 8088 in the IBM PC

I remember having a programming issue one night - just couldn't solve it, so I went to bed and to sleep. About 2am a little light went on in my head 'Decrementing the HL register pair doesn't set the zero flag when it hits zero" - got up - recoded - all good

[OldFrank]

I started with the Z80 (Sinclair ZX80 & Osborne 1) before moving on to the 8088 in the IBM PC

I remember having a programming issue one night - just couldn't solve it, so I went to bed and to sleep. About 2am a little light went on in my head 'Decrementing the HL register pair doesn't set the zero flag when it hits zero" - got up - recoded - all good

Well do I remember that oversight. It's also interesting about waking up at night with a solution. My approach to troubleshooting is to immerse myself in the problem to "my optimum level of frustration" and then go for a walk or to bed.

For a while I was jumping back and forth between the 8080 and the 6502 in the Apple. They had completely different register and flag structures which led to many errors.

[Colin Southern]

Well do I remember that oversight. It's also interesting about waking up at night with a solution. My approach to troubleshooting is to immerse myself in the problem to "my optimum level of frustration" and then go for a walk or to bed.

For a while I was jumping back and forth between the 8080 and the 6502 in the Apple. They had completely different register and flag structures which led to many errors.

Truth be known, I still miss it though!

[lenelg]

A recent study shows that, on average, an internet discussion has lost sight of the original sublect after three posts.. ;^)

[Black Pearl]

Anyone got a good way to rid roses of green fly?

[MrB]

You should be able to achieve this by photoshopping them out.

Philip

[martinp2502]

Due to being away for a while I've only just seen this thread. There are too many good comments to quote but I go along with the "showing what's there" viewpoint. I personally am totally turned off by seeing a sunset pic where everything is lilac and purple. I'll use Photoshop to remove specs, rubbish on a beach etc and make minor changes but I like to keep an image as close to natural as possible.

But each to their own, if someone enjoys seriously manipulating an image then all's good with me. I suppose I have another reason for my opinion. I retired as a graphic designer last year and spent the previous 16 years using Photoshop on a daily basis. I'd be quite happy never to see it again.

[Colin Southern]

A recent study shows that, on average, an internet discussion has lost sight of the original sublect after three posts.. ;^)

Just the way we like it

[Andrew1]

"To my mind, good art has two basic requirements, a speaking from the heart and evidence of technical mastery. If it has only the first, it's a kindergarten project. If it has only the second, it's empty boasting in public."

Ferg Berfle 4/28/2012