do i upgrade to full frame ?

[damien]

Evening,

IM thinking of upgrading from my d80 to to a full frame camera, but im not sure if its the right choice or not as im just a novice witht he camera, am i buying something that is not needed??

any advice ont his matter would be great!

[AB26]

Hi Damien,

If you ask the opinion of others if you must upgrade to full frame, then you are not ready yet.
For an amature there is no benefit in going to full frame. Upgrade to a D7000 if you want to spend the money.
Otherwise stick to your D80 and get to be an expert with it. The D80 was a big hit in its time and will still do a very decent job in the hands of a photographer who is willing to use it.

Regards,
Andre

[Shibang]

Is there any chance you can let us know what lenses you are using and where you are having some issues with your shots?

It could be that you just need a faster lens or you might have some limitations with your D80.

Regards,

Gary

[rpcrowe]

If you are shooting with top-line lenses and if you are getting very good to excellent results from you crop camera, then perhaps you would improve your imagery by switching to full frame.

However, if you are not getting very good to excellent results from your crop camera and are not using top line lenses, you might be better served to improve your glass.

And, if you ARE using top line lenses with your crop camera and you are not producing very-good to excellent image quality, I would suggest improving your technique. Because in this case, I would suspect that it is the indian not the arrow at fault.

Switching from crop to full frame is not an automatic panacea that will improve your imagery from the mundane to the very good to excellent.

[Polar01]

Damien: I myself am looking to step up to a full frame, because of what I shoot, I need more in the vertical for the pans', I do in tight buildings not better imagery, I use the D7000. Better glass will help if you know what you are doing, and a camera with a new sensor and software can help capture more details. However like Richard states it probably the shooter not the arrows. I see that you are from Berkshire UK, why not attach a image that you are not happy with and maybe we can give some suggestions from a shooter's point of view.

Cheers:

Allan

[Dave Humphries]

Hi Damien,

What do you expect a switch to full frame to bring you?

If you can't answer that 'correctly', save your money (at least for now)

I see we're not far apart, in fact I'll be over your way with the family for a meal at the weeekend!

Cheers,

[DanK]

am i buying something that is not needed??

Not needed? Almost certainly, the answer is that it is not needed. Would it be helpful? That depends on what you are doing, but given that you are a novice, I am guessing that the answer is no.

"full frame" offers some advantages--in particular, better high-ISO performance. However, unless you are shooting in very low light or print very large, I doubt you will see much difference. (I may be biased--I have decided up to this point that it is not worth it for me, even though I have been doing photography, off and on, for nearly 50 years.)

For what it is worth, I will give you my two rules of thumb for this:

1. It is almost never worth buying any photographic equipment unless you can say what the new equipment will do that your old equipment won't do, or won't do well.

2. Particularly when you are starting out, the major determinant of the quality of your images will usually be you, not your equipment. It takes time to learn how to control the camera, how to compose and use light, and how to post-process your images. As you get more experienced, you will find that you may bump against limits of your equipment, but until that happens, the most important thing is studying and practicing. A very distant second is the quality of your lenses. An even more distant third is the quality of the camera body.

[rpcrowe]

Most of the time that members post that the truly need an upgrade, it is because of the lack of quality of their lens or lenses. Often the case is when the member needs to shoot indoor sports such as gymnastics and is trying to make-do with kit-type lenses.

[Andrew1]

Just checked prices here and made some $$ conversions. D800 is 1900 GBP. A D700 is 697 GBP. The 1200 GBP difference would go a long way on upgrading some lenses. A no-brainer for me.

[MilT0s]

Keep in mind that there is another key point apart from all those already discused here.

There are new models from major players (Canon, Nikon, etc) every roughly two or three years. When a new product family is announced the prices are pretty high. Moreover there is some time needed for the reviewers to meticulously test the new cameras and for regular users to identify any hidden faults or drawbacks of each model. After few months (lets say half a year) the pros (many of them) upgrade their equipments and sales drop. Then the prices lower and -very important- you can find second hand cameras of the previous models.

At the moment there are some new models announced few weeks ago so I believe it is not the best opportunity to buy something new. If you can wait for six (?) more months of a year it will be probably a better time to buy a new camera.

Unless an earthquake or a flood destroys a factory in Japan or China....

[damien]

ok thanks for all your comments, I like my ice hockey and was thinking of taking my camera along with me, however i know i would need to get a better lens to do this. I was only throwing this out there to see what response and if im honest i thought more would have been for a full frame and not croped, I understand the d80 is a good camera, however i got it 2nd hand and wanting to buy a newer camera, Ive recenty posted a picture and wish i hadnt as i had alot of negative comments, This was due to a dirty sensor which ive cleaned since and still at a high fstop im still getting marks, this was one of the reason i was thinking of upgrading, i understand its not cheap but i want to be a excellent photographer and not just the run of the mill, my leses are mid range lenses not brilliant but they were doing the job, i have a 50ml prime lense, 10 24 wide angle and sigma 28 70 2.8 d lense, and the zoom lens with cost me 150 from jessops

[Scottm]

Stick to your D80 and spend what you need on faster lenses. The D80 may have been surpassed by newer models, but that does NOT make it obsolete in any way. If you want to get a new camera, I would suggest the better option is to look at the D7000, which is (currently) the latest cropped DSLR from Nikon. While you may get a better lower-light capability from a full-frame camera, you will probably also lose the ability to exploit the benefits of your 10-24mm lens, which I suspect is a DX lens, AND you will lose some reach through having a full, rather than cropped-sensor. Rather upgrade your glass to faster lenses, to be able to improve your current low-light ability that way, at least in the shorter term. Camera bodies should almost be considered as a commodity as they can change so often, but money thrown at lenses should be considered an investment into the future, that could last for many many years to come, but only if you "invest" in the best....

[damien]

Thank you Scott, im going to stick with my camera unless i come into alot of money then i will buy big, fingers crossed on the lottery tonight

[damien]

Hi Damien,

What do you expect a switch to full frame to bring you?

If you can't answer that 'correctly', save your money (at least for now)

I see we're not far apart, in fact I'll be over your way with the family for a meal at the weeekend!

Cheers,

hi dave thanks for you advice and good advice it was,

where are you going for a mean in bracknell, would have thought windsor would have better restuarants

[Maritimer1]

Hi Damien. I just saw the words "ice hockey"! Not only did those little words make me feel a tiny bit cooler on this hot and humid day, it made me want to throw my two cents in. I just looked at the specs on the D80. It seems to have sufficient ISO (3200) for you. The only drawback, and it isn't a major thing at all, is the 3 frames per second. But really, how often will you do the machine gun fire? My 40D is about the equivalent of the D80. I used it for hockey for two years with one lens 90% of the time: 85mm f1.8. If you bought yourself the Nikon equivalent of the 85mm and a really good 70-200, I think you would be pretty happy. You already have the 24-70 f/2.8 and it's a great lens.

Someone above me suggested waiting for new cameras to come out. Good plan! I'm trying to get a little business established (tired of doing everything for free!), so decided to purchase another camera. I bought a brand "new" Canon camera at about 70% off what it would have cost when it was released in 2007. It had been sitting around in a local camera store and they just wanted to move it. (Richard, I had gone in to price a 7D body, mentioned that I couldn't decide between it and a used 1DIII and they pulled out the latter for $300 more than the 7D).

I'm rambling. My point: I totally agree with the suggestions about buying the best lenses. Then, based on money, look for a model that is not right off the rack and keep your D80 as a great back up. Also, what you might want to do is go to Flickr and do a search for D80 + hockey and see what others are coming up with. Also find a D80 group there and search for various lenses to see what kinds of images can be produced.

Have fun!

[Polar01]

Hockey can one word be so beautiful, I shoot it, with the D7000, and the 70-300mm lens, it is not a fast lens however, it focuses very fast thus a great len to shoot with. Having played the game, you learn to pick a area of the ice to shoot, and you basically do not shoot outside that area, that is where knowing the game comes in, it is not where the puck is, but where the puck is going to be. As you shoot in an area you set you camera for the conditions (light) and stay in that area. For me having played the game as both a defenceman, and as a goaltender that area is about twenty feet around the front of the net. As others have said, glass is important, get good glass, remember FX lens are in someways better than DX (hold on, wait for me to finish) in the future if you decide to step up to a FX camera I also have the 16-85mm DX len, I use it about 80% of the time. I believe I stated before, post on some of your images so we can all learn form them.

Cheers:

Allan

[Colin Southern]

Why do folks assume that going from a crop-factor camera to a full-frame camera is an "upgrade" or a "step up". Full Frame isn't necessarily better - it's just different. If you're a telephoto shooter then FF works against you. If you're a macro shooter then FF works against you.

[krispix]

Just checked prices here and made some $$ conversions. D800 is 1900 GBP. A D700 is 697 GBP. The 1200 GBP difference would go a long way on upgrading some lenses. A no-brainer for me.

Hi Andrew,
Can I take it that you are actually referring to the D7000, not the D700? If not, I'd appreciate you bundling up a dozen or so D700's and sending them to me at that price!

[Andrew1]

Typo on my part. It would of course be the D7000.

[Wyeman]

I'm new to this forum but this thread just shouted at me - I have the same inclination(s) as Damien, so all your advice and recommendations are very relevant.
Damien - no way do I want to steal this thread away from you - just need to share it please
I've been taking photographs for 35 years - started with a Canon AE1, processing my own film in the bathroom with a blanket over the window (dust to die for!). Eventually moved to digital approx 8 years ago with an Olympus Mju400, then a Pany FZ50 and now use a secondhand Nikon D50 from ebay.
My lenses are kit - AF-S DX 18-55 f3.5 - 5.6G and the AF-S DX VR Zoom 55-200 f4 - 5.6G and I'll attempt to upload a couple of images. What I've decided from the advice here, is to think in terms of the D7000 and invest in good lenses, BUT, what would be "good" lenses?




btw - the image of the Heron was taken from the back deck of a moving canal boat - with all the engine vibration!

Advice on how to determine "good" lenses will be very much appreciated.