Recommendations for On Line Photo Back Up

[Brownbear]

Hi,
Just to let everyone know that I found an on-line photo back up system, with the computer techie that I use and that I also happen to think very highly of. His name is Tom Barrington and his business is located in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico. He built me a custom computer (because I could not find what I needed in Mexico) and I've had the computer for over a year. The computer is exceptional as Tom's service. That is what my recommendation is based on.

The on-line back up is something he just introduced.

I just signed up for it today and it is in the process of backing up all my photos which I expect to take about two weeks. It backs up raw photos and costs 500 pesos a year (about $42.00 CAD). There are no additional charges (in Mexico) for uploading files.

Of course I don't know how well it works because I've just signed up and I can't compare it to any other service, but it is very inexpensive so to me it is worth a try.

Here is the link for the service (his contact information is on the web page)
http://www.backup500.com/index.html

[drjuice]

Hi, Christina -

What I'd suggest doing, even though it's a pain in the ---- and will take some period of time, is immediately backing up to DVD (I strongly prefer the on DVD directories to be yyyy/yyyymm/yyyymmdd and then by geographic area. Finally in either the yyyymmdd subdirectory or the geographic area subdirectory, I have four subdirectories called AllRAW, AllJPG (including my thumbnails for websites), AllPNG (my preferred format for printing other than TIFF files), and AllTIFF. I also have a list of the geographic areas where I've taken pictures on each day. I note that down in what used to be my pictures' EXIF logs (which I now extract from my original photos when necessary. The places are kept in date order.

When you finally decide on the site where you want to have your backups, you can then backup the DVDs individidually which will minimize the chance of having to redo things or spend time figuring out how much got missed when the power goes out. I find it takes about not more than about 10-12 minutes to burn a DVD on my system. And, since the DVDs will only hold between 4 and 5 GB, that should be small enough to be able recover back to the point where things went missing. ;~(

I also use Delkin Archival DVDs (you can get them online from Delkin or, if you're in a big US city like LA or NYC, you can shop around the big camera stores. Since I'm in the LA area, I usually check BelAir and Sami's. The back of the various photo magazines would give you Adorama and B&H and they also sell pretty much everything online, though I don't have a clue what shipping might be)and likely get a better price. Delkin, if you're on their email list, also has percent off sales around the time of big US holidays like 4th of July, New Year's Day, etc.

Hope this helps.

v

[Manfred M]

Hi, Christina -

What I'd suggest doing, even though it's a pain in the ---- and will take some period of time, is immediately backing up to DVD (I strongly prefer the on DVD directories to be yyyy/yyyymm/yyyymmdd and then by geographic area. Finally in either the yyyymmdd subdirectory or the geographic area subdirectory, I have four subdirectories called AllRAW, AllJPG (including my thumbnails for websites), AllPNG (my preferred format for printing other than TIFF files), and AllTIFF. I also have a list of the geographic areas where I've taken pictures on each day. I note that down in what used to be my pictures' EXIF logs (which I now extract from my original photos when necessary. The places are kept in date order.

When you finally decide on the site where you want to have your backups, you can then backup the DVDs individidually which will minimize the chance of having to redo things or spend time figuring out how much got missed when the power goes out. I find it takes about not more than about 10-12 minutes to burn a DVD on my system. And, since the DVDs will only hold between 4 and 5 GB, that should be small enough to be able recover back to the point where things went missing. ;~(

I also use Delkin Archival DVDs (you can get them online from Delkin or, if you're in a big US city like LA or NYC, you can shop around the big camera stores. Since I'm in the LA area, I usually check BelAir and Sami's. The back of the various photo magazines would give you Adorama and B&H and they also sell pretty much everything online, though I don't have a clue what shipping might be)and likely get a better price. Delkin, if you're on their email list, also has percent off sales around the time of big US holidays like 4th of July, New Year's Day, etc.

Hope this helps.

v

I personally am very suspicious about the claims from any of these archival DVD makers, simply because they use the traditional techniques of putting claims in quotes and and profusely using words like "up to" in their claims. I would feel a lot more comfortable with the claims if some independent testing lab substantiated them. Mentioning NIST without telling us which standards they meet is another red flag to me.

Commercial DVDs are made by a pressing process that permanently moulds the markings into polycarbonate resin. The disk the has a thin layer of aluminum deposited on the pressed layer and protective layer to prevent the aluminum from oxidizing is then applied as well. As long as the protective coating remains intact, the DVD should last indefinitely.

The DVDs we burn on computers us a completely different technology. The laser in our burner sets off a chemical reaction that emulates the pits in a commercial DVDs, and unfortunately, this is not an irreversible process. Heat and light will degrade the data, and the quality of your laser in your burner will also affect the longevity of your disk; the laser weakens with age. It is run at a higher power level when burning than when reading and that does affect its life.

I would expect storage in a cool dark place (freezer perhaps) will extent the life of your disks.

I rather doubt that these disks are anything special. There are only a couple of chemical companies that turn out the photosensitive chemicals. Same comment about the manufacturers and Delkin is a distributer, not manufacturer. The gold colour by the way is another marketing gimmick. I don't see any guarantees (other than words), that one would expect from a reputable source of archiving materials.

Everything about them makes me suspect that they are probably no better than the run of the mill write once, read many disks out on the market. It would not be a medium I would use as my sole archiving tool.

[Brownbear]

Thank you to both of you for your advice and recommendations on DVDs.

[Colin Southern]

Thank you to both of you for your advice and recommendations on DVDs.

You might find these interesting ...

http://millenniata.com/m-disc/

[Manfred M]

You might find these interesting ...

http://millenniata.com/m-disc/

Thanks Colin - This is a very interesting read. The independent test report is extremely thorough and well done, but is not the most readable document I've ever gone through. The test methodology is quite thorough and the accelerated aging impact makes a lot of sense on my first read through it.

I'm going to have to have to do some more research, but the technology makes sense and actually seems to solve the issues I pointed out in a previous posting. The only drawback that I really see is that the 4.7 GB storage capacity is a bit limited, given where modern cameras are going, but on the other hand, short of fire, these discs look rather robust. Eventually, when DVDs go the way of all technology, hopefully there will be a next-gen solution.

I'm going to have a good hard look at this as an additional backup strategy for my images and video work.

[Geoff F]

With regard to DVD lifespan.

I have a friend who recently retired and sold his data archiving business. He started by producing microfilm but latterly, virtually all of his business from UK local authorities and substantial companies was for digital storage on DVD discs.

If these discs fail, as some people predict, a lot of companies worldwide are going to have very serious problems. However, they all seem to think that archive discs which are safely stored in their boxes and rarely used won't present a retrial problem within a reasonable period.

Storage forever? Who knows.

He only ever had one problem which was with a company that provided pre printed self adhesive labels for attachment to the discs. All discs which used one batch of labels failed within a couple of years. His copies of the same discs without labels were fine.

He only used the commonly available, but good quality, discs. Nothing special or extra expensive.

And his advice is, only write, with felt tipped pen, around the extreme edge of the disc where there isn't any recorded data underneath. Or write on the plain plastic area near the centre hole. Never print, or write, on the back of a disc over recorded areas and never attach adhesive labels.