Manual Mode is making me lose shots.

[Colin Southern]

Frikkie bought a new Ferrari and took his friend Don for a drive. Now Don was an experienced Nissan ZX driver and Frikkie wanted to impress Don. As they were about to leave a suburb Frikkie turned off the Traction Control and said to Don “Now see what this Ferrari can do”. They ended up smashing into a wall writing off the Ferrari. Fortunately they escaped without injury.

And here's a link to the video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfF1Fzx8tmA

[AB26]

Colin,
Guess that was no Frikkie behind the wheel.

[escoville]

What no one here seems to have said is that digital technology has made exposure a secondary matter. You can always correct it afterwards (unless it was really way out). (Unless you're the sort that thinks a photo is finished once you've pressed the shutter, but apart from Polaroid, that was never the case.) The important thing is focus. You can't de-blur a blurred picture, and it is almost impossible to add blur selectively. Same goes for grain. So get the focus/graininess (ISO) right, let the camera judge the rest and correct it later if you're not happy.

[Donald]

What no one here seems to have said is that digital technology has made exposure a secondary matter.

I understand the point being made, but would argue that there is no substitute for getting the exposure right at the time of capture. That is a skill that the aspiring photographer should learn and apply. Post-processing doesn't exist, I don't think, to allow shoddy craftsmanship at the stage of capturing the image. The person who relies on post-processing to 'rescue' their lack of application of good practice is never going to gain the knowledge and experience that they can then apply in the field in a range of settings.

[wmoore]

Just to add my 2c/2p worth

I shoot in manual, Av and program depending on what I am doing. For street photography I shoot in program and usually have my
ISO quite high so I can have a faster shutter speed when using a 70-300 lens. As with street photo you have to be quick on your feet to capture that split second in time.
For images with DOF I use Av and even use Av on landscapes as well. I will use manual on Landscapes and when I need more
control in a shot.

[escoville]

Donald, I agree. But if you're 'losing shots' through messing about with manual settings, it's best to concentrate on absolute essentials, and you cannot correct a blurred image, or add the blur you should have got by arranging for shallow depth of focus.

[John Morton]

Yes Donald you are spot on with that. It is nice to think that exposure problems can be rectified after-the-fact but the sad truth of the situation is that any adjustments made to correct a problem will like as not bring other issues into play, as areas acceptably lit in the first place are pushed and pulled away from where they should be by adjustments made to other areas. Then the only solution is to use selective masking, and that brings up a whole new range of issues associated with edges and feathering.

Of course it can be done; but it is a lot easier to do it right the first time, on site, in camera, while you still have the option of taking corrective measures with the scene still right there in front of you!

[MrB]

As the only DSLR I have used is a Pentax, I researched Program Mode on the Web. It would appear that cameras such as the Pentax K-5 do implement it differently, enabling greater user-control and flexibility within the P Mode, compared with many other cameras. Pentax actually call it "Hyper-Program Mode" in their documentation. Perhaps the only way really to understand how useful it can be, is by using a Pentax. Although there might even be many Pentax users who don't appreciate its capabilities, having followed an apparently common progression in their photography - from Auto to Aperture (or Shutter) Priority to Manual.

Cheers.
Philip

[AB26]

I understand the point being made, but would argue that there is no substitute for getting the exposure right at the time of capture. That is a skill that the aspiring photographer should learn and apply. Post-processing doesn't exist, I don't think, to allow shoddy craftsmanship at the stage of capturing the image. The person who relies on post-processing to 'rescue' their lack of application of good practice is never going to gain the knowledge and experience that they can then apply in the field in a range of settings.

Three hoera’s for Donald!

[Donald]

When using a camera think of it as if you were driving a sophisticated super car. Something like a Ferrari or Lambo with all the bells and whistles to help the driver stay in control of the car.

Haven't been in this thread for a while other than to make my most recent post. But hadn't read back through entries.

The above, post #40, is an excellent summation. One of these that needs saved for use in the future when the question is next asked .......... as it will be.

[jiro]

...Most books and articles online have fully explained that it is better one stays on top of the "shooting" situation so I have been giving that a try with the recommended manual mode but the manual mode comes with some problems which is that:

a. After getting the correct combination(a balanced exposure meter) of f/stop, shutter speed and iso, few seconds before the actual shot, everything just fluctuates and i'm either under or overexposed.

Hello Ife, I'll try to reply on your original quote one by one and hope my comment could be of help.

You said "... few seconds before the actual shot" so how is it possible that you're getting an underexposed or overexposed shot in just a small period of time? The reason why I always shoot in Manual Mode most of the time is TO KEEP MY CAMERA EXPOSURE THE SAME UNDER THE SAME LIGHTING SITUATION. IF THE LIGHTING CHANGES, YOU NEED TO ADJUST YOUR EXPOSURE. I think this is where the problem lies. Few people realize that exposure is based on lighting. Change the lighting of a scene that is framed by your camera and the exposure changes. This is the advantage of shooting in manual mode. A good analogy is an indoor photoshoot with flash. Once you determine the right exposure using a light meter and if the lighting setup doesn't change, you can take 1 - 100 or for so many shots and your exposure will remain the same because the lighting setup does not change.

I just had a conversation with an iconic wedding photographer here in the Philippines during one of the training I attended and she gave me a very eye-opening information on how she shoots weddings - She's always in Manual Mode, Spot Metering, single shot, and that's it. She started with film cameras and worked her way to the digital system. Another thing she shared to me was that "... you need to learn how your camera behaves and operates like the back of your hand. Can you operate the controls of your camera even in dim light? If you can then that means you have done your part learning your camera well.

b. I currently do not own a tripod so a slow shutter speed is a big no at the moment but many times i choose an aperture, only a really slow shutter speed satisfies my "Sir Camera".

ISO immediately comes to mind but then, while cranking it up may help with a faster shutter speed....how about the little devil called 'noise'?

Not to sound rude but just being frank, Ife. This shows that you still need more time learning your camera well so you can deal with the changing light situations on your photography. When taking a shot, you need some form of pre-visualization and ask yourself "What is my priority: - to blur the main subject to introduce some movement or to keep it sharp? Now the answer to that question will give you the right shutter speed setting prior to clicking the shutter button. Same thing with depth of field: - "Do I want to blur the background because it is too busy or the background should be slightly in focus to create the mood that i want on my shot?" The answer to this question will help you set the right aperture setting on your camera. Without this pre-visualization, you're just depending on the "blind" computation that the camera gives you. Why? Because the camera will NEVER know how YOU WANT TO ARTISTICALLY COMPOSE YOUR SHOT. You need to tell your camera "... f/2.8 so I can isolate my subject well from the background, 1/125 second to keep my subject sharp. Now, do your thing on the ISO so I can concentrate on my composition shots. GARBAGE IN - GARBAGE OUT. The camera is just a tool no matter how advanced it is. It doesn't have its own fuzzy logic to determine how the scene would be captured. You need to use your mind and your pre-visualized scene on your mind to determine the aperture and shutter speed to use on all your shots.

All the above have actually made the "P" mode my favorite and as a matter of fact only viable option, except Auto which I am learning to drop(starting to feel like a pro ).

So do you shoot manual a lot and what is the trick or your method for getting it right without spending too much time fiddling with the camera(mostly at an event).

I use a Canon 1000d, 18-55mm kit lens and 70-300mm Sigma f4-5.6.

I'll be waiting to hear from you.
Thank you.

When you put your camera in P mode, you are merely letting your camera determine everything simply TO GET A GOOD EXPOSURE of the scene but you have no artistic control on how the shot would look like after exposure. Like I have said, determine your intended pre-visualized idea first and then the proper shutter speed and aperture camera settings will follow. Shooting in Manual Mode is just letting you get more creative with your shots instead of simply shooting always with "getting the exposure right" as your ordinary goal. I hope I explained my idea well. For me, this is the faster way to learn photography - master your camera well, learn everything on HOW TO OPERATE your camera, then, start applying your ARTISTIC ideas on your shots and you will develop your vision and style soon. Good luck on your photography, Ife.

[Graystar]

...what is the trick or your method for getting it right without spending too much time fiddling with the camera(mostly at an event).

"Getting it right" has nothing to do with manual mode. It has everything to do with understanding exposure theory, as well as understanding how a camera works. It's knowledge that gets it right...not what mode you're using. What you're missing is basic photographic knowledge.

It's just like Chess. First you learn the rules and how the pieces move. But that's just the start of it. You then have to learn concepts such as controlling the center, king safety, etc. It's that knowledge that starts to separate you from someone who just knows how the pieces move.

You've received lots of advice in this thread, although personally I think little of it will help. Your camera has lots of functions. But those functions are like the chess pieces. You still need additional knowledge to put the pieces to work, and I don't see any of that knowledge in this thread. No one has explained how the meter works, why the meter gets fooled, how to compensate exposure, how to meter under constant light conditions, how to meter under changing light conditions, when to use various exposure modes, etc.

I'll add my two bits of advice. First, take a photography class. Whether that helps or not depends on the quality of the class, so try to find one with good reviews from students. Second, practice only helps if you're practicing knowledge. Going out and taking 1000 pictures is not going to do anything for you unless those pictures were taking for the purpose of applying some bit of knowledge.

[nimitzbenedicto]

It's knowledge that gets it right...not what mode you're using. What you're missing is basic photographic knowledge.

You've received lots of advice in this thread, although personally I think little of it will help. Your camera has lots of functions. But those functions are like the chess pieces. You still need additional knowledge to put the pieces to work, and I don't see any of that knowledge in this thread. No one has explained how the meter works, why the meter gets fooled, how to compensate exposure, how to meter under constant light conditions, how to meter under changing light conditions, when to use various exposure modes, etc.

Is my impression wrong that some guys are more concerned about marketing their personal likes/dislikes, program-mode bashing/etc. rather than replying to the questions of cyracles.

Perhaps best, as Graystar has posted, join a photography class first.

[Donald]

Is my impression wrong that some guys are more concerned about marketing their personal likes/dislikes, program-mode bashing/etc. rather than replying to the questions of cyracles.

Having reviewed this whole thread in response to the above comments, I do not feel that anyone is attempting to be less than constructive in their responses and have sought to provide comments that would be useful. Ife, the original poster, seems to think that is the case in his acknowledgement at post #28. I believe all shades of opinion have been constructively expressed.

CiC prides itself in setting a tone and culture wherein constructive discussions and debate can take place. What we're very good at on here (for the most part) is avoiding the negative personal criticism and insults that seem to be the stock-in-trade of some other online fora, in which egos and/or testosterone seem to be in overdrive.

I suggest that the discussion has, usefully and helpfully (again for the most part) gone well beyond the parameters of the original questions and will have extended and will continue to extend, the knowledge base of many people.

[nimitzbenedicto]

Hello everybody,

Although English is my 2nd language, I do my best to learn and understand it.
I guess I misinterpreted some of the posts and should have done my best to understand what the posts meant. I have no intention to offend anyone here. I hope you guys can forgive me for such.

Thanks guys.

Vic

[escoville]

I have read through this thread again, and I will give you my thoughts again. I have recently turned to digital after having used an OM-1 for 30 years. I did so for two reasons. One: cost; two: the continuing decline in quality (and sometimes sheer vandalism) on the part of the people who develop your films. I now have a Canon SX40 HS. The screen / viewfinder gives you WYSIWYG -- on the basis of 100 or so shots, pretty accurate WYSIWYG, I'd say. In manual mode, if you reduce the time, or the aperture, the viewfinder picture gets darker, and the finished shot is line with what the viewfinder led you to expect. In standard lighting conditions, the auto mode works perfectly. When it's shady, or otherwise gloomy, the auto will try to give you a pic that looks like bright daylight. Moral of story: use manual in non-standard conditions, and in standard conditions too if depth of focus is an issue. On the question of getting exposure 'right', or correcting it afterwards, I cannot understand some of the points that have been made. There's no such thing as 'correct' exposure. You can expose 'objectively' correctly, but that may not give you the scene as you subjectively remember it. The viewfinder image will help, but if you have to shoot quickly, there's no point in hanging around. The auto mode is better than nothing. Whether you postprocess or do it in real time is irrelevant in the digital age. What your camera does when you take a shot is no different from what Photoshop (or whatever) does if you correct afterwards (and Photoshop will probably do it better). And if you correct afterwards, you have hours to think about it, not milliseconds. Good photographs are taken by people who recognize good motifs (either before or after taking the shot), not by people who worry about exposure. You could always correct that in the darkroom, and now you can do it in Photoshop (or in my case, PhotoFiltre).

[dasmith232]

Hi Ife, I'm new here (but not new to photography).

Your equipment is plenty good to capture great images in many categories. While the Canon 18-55 kit lens is not "the best" that Canon makes, it's still optically better than many images over the decades of lesser technology. My point: don't worry about your equipment currently.

Personally, I use "M" a lot. I use "Av" even more. And, yes, I even use "P" at times (which stands for "Party" mode, when you're priority is more having fun and snapshots than photography). Once my camera hits a tripod (which is a lot), I'm going to be using "M" at least 90% of the time.

Speaking of tripods...

...do not own a tripod...

There are many good tripods at many different price points. Personally, I have several and the one that I carry when backpacking is heavy metal legs with a heavy head. I always laugh when people ask about what tripod can be used for hiking. The answer: all of them! It's just a matter of how sharp you want your images to be!

Anyway, once you mount the camera on a tripod, I think that your learning will be far more productive. Even slight movement of the camera changes ... well, everything from metering to composition and everything in between. But, using a tripod you can then put the camera in Av mode and roll through the apertures and see the effect with everything else staying the same.

My personal recommendation would be: (1) beg, borrow or steal a tripod (oops: beg, borrow or *buy* a tripod), (2) use your Sigma lens (the longer focal length will make aperture changes more obvious), (3) set up somewhere and shoot using different aperture settings, then (4) move somewhere else and keep repeating step #3.

Practicing in "Aperture" mode will make you more comfortable and quick with it. When the situation calls for "Manual" mode, you don't want to be trying to guess at the aperture without experience. "Manual" is a mode where you "pull from your bag of tricks" which is built from experience.

Then, there's that other thing: shutter. Again, mount the camera, find a scene with movement and shoot all the different shutter speeds. At this point, you'll have a strong foundation for everything else.

[cyracles]

Thank you so much gentlemen, for your time and candid advice. Speaking of shutter speed, that seems one part I can decently say i fully understand. I tend to anticipate events well so what i do is to sort out my focus and wait. Many times i seem to get it right but as you may expect, i may get the action story told but what use is the action shot when the image is not correctly exposed. What are your thoughts about these? I took them some months ago in school.

Dave, . Well, since you have several, mind keeping one outside carelessly? I could send my jinn to come steal it...jinns don't need visa right?







Thank you very much.
All the best!

[jcuknz]

But some us do enjoy the challenge of doing so. That's why we do it.

To me the challenge is to take good photographs not the technical side of things so I only use M mode these days when I need to and very glad that cameras have progressed as helpful allies where I can rely on them to get it right when I preselect a suitable aperture in A mode and a reasonable ISO for the camera [ 100 ISO for my bridge and 400 ISO for my M4/3 cameras ]. I also have OIS so rarely need a tripod though I have several.

I used Manual mode for fifty years and now the last decade I enjoy the fruits of progress with digital I suspect Donald is gently trolling in good spirit

In a similar situation, shooting from a train, I had the camera set to 800ISO and used S mode to have 1/1000 ... some shots are dark but can be raised in editing which probably is the forth parameter you have not considered Sadly trains do not usually stop for photographers