Understanding Ratio when cropping

[Soozie B]

Hi there everyone.

Yesterday, I got brave and decided to put one of my shots to print as a present for someone? The issue is that unbeknown to me, when I cropped the shot I created an issue where the picture is no longer a standard size and was advised that my ratio was all wrong(to which I nodded as if understanding, with a view to come here and ask). Is there a way that I can fix this and (in very basic English) , how?

I have realized that I have probably done it to a lot of my shots.

Rookie mistake!



Geelong Pier B&W by Soozie_Lou_B, on Flickr

[Mike Buckley]

If you post the name and version of the software that you are using, someone will probably be able to provide specific help. Perhaps it will suffice to explain that most software today allows you to select standard aspect ratios, such as 8 x 10, 4 x 6, etc., that are the same as the aspect ratios of standard frames. When you use your Crop tool, look for anything that allows you to select a "fixed" aspect ratio. Once you have selected it, look for anything that allows you to select a particular aspect ratio, such as 8 x 10.

The primary advantage of using a standard aspect ratio is that you won't have to go to the expense of using a custom frame. However, keep in mind that images such as the one shown above may not look nearly as good when presented in a standard aspect ratio.

[Polar01]

Soozie: It is you who decides what the final size of the printed image is going to be, not the printer. That said the printer you went to probably can not print the size you want because they are not set up for custom sizes. If you want 4 x 6 or say 5 x 7 or even 8 x 10 they can do it, anything else is out of their field, and probably will not suggest a custom printer as they would be afraid that you will take all you work there. Melbourne I believe is a fairly large town if I am not mistaken, I would think that they would have a photography club or two, go to one of their meetings and ask around about who they would suggest to print a image for you. All you have is an image that has been cropped to look like a pan shot.
I find that to help the framer, I usually can find a size that I am happy with, which will make is easier for them, I select a final size that is rounded to the nearest 1/8" or 1/4" as a matte will cover over some of the image. Also remember the width of the matte around the image, as I have large images printed I ask for a 3" wide matte some will use 4" wide, a smaller image an 1-3/4" to 2" wide can and will look nice.
What might look good as the image is not all that dark, is a black matte with a simple black frame that totals no more that a width of 3" around each side of the image.
Just my thoughts.

Cheers:

Allan

[Manfred M]

There are no rules on cropping, just "considerations".

Camera sensors have differening aspect rations (height and width) that generally bear no more than a passing relationship with screen or paper sizes. In fact screen sizes are highly variable and there are different standard paper sizes for prints in differnet parts of the world. The photographer needs to allow enough "head room" in the shots to allow for cropping, i.e. if you know you are going to crop, have a throw away portion of the picture.

For screen or internet displays, cropping considerations are quite flexible, as chances of a perfect fit from computer to computer are negligable. The viewers or web browers will usually put the images on a neutral background anyway.

When going for prints, cropping to a standard paper size makes sense, because if you don't respect the aspect ratio, there will be white spaces where the image did not fit. If you have a large enough paper cutter, even this is not going to be an issue, as you can trim the white borders off. If you are planning to frame the image, you might want to keep to a standard size, as the selection of commercially available frames are a real constraint. Yes, you can go custom, but that will really increase the cost. You can also mat the image before framing, but again, this means a larger frame and the cost of making the mats. If you have the image mounted on fibre board, any custom size can be handled.

I agree with Mike on your image. If you stuck to standard sizes, you would have too much sky and water, and the image would not work. One thing you should look at before cropping, though is ensuring that your horizon line is straight.

[Carl in Louisiana]

Hey Soozie,

Thats a great looking image, but it leans just a little to the right (I think) and you may want to straighten it up before printing and you''l loose a little bit more of it when doing so. I try if I can to catch that and adjust as needed before cropping, but I still fail to do so at times.

[John Morton]

There is another solution:

1) Take the longer side that is the same as a standard dimension on a paper size your image will fit within: If the long side is 8 or 10 inches, pick an 8"X10" size; if the long side is 11 or 14 inches, pick an 11"X14" size.

2) Set up a document of that size and add in as many copies of the image as you can: if your image were 8" wide you could probably stack maybe 4 of them into an 8"X10". Leave a little space in between each.

3) Have your printer output this standard size image, then go home with it and use a razor knife (Olfa; Exacto, etc.), a rubber cutting mat, and a metal ruler to slice the image into four (or however many) separate images, for the price of one print.

[RogerCook]

Yes that was the first thing I noticed is that it needs to be straightened, other than that it's a very cool shot. Wish I could help with your printing problem but I know nothing about printing.

[Soozie B]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for responding. To fill in the gaps with my question I am using Paintshop Pro x4.

I am hoping that someone can help make this image larger without distorting it (or making it that the cost of framing outweighs the appeal of the shot - I was quoted $110 to frame this picture which you need to squint to pick up detail), as you correctly stated to try and crop to a more standard size I lose a fair bit of detail. (the print came out tiny and it was very disappointing).

[John Morton]

Custom framing is hugely expensive when done professionally, no doubt about it. That's one reason why people often prefer to print in standard sizes - so they can use off-the-shelf frames.

Your best option is to go to a large art and craft supply store where they have a good selection of off-the-shelf frames, and pick one that is roughly the proportions of your image. You can find these, because panorama shots are now quite popular so there is an actual market niche for frames of that proportion. I'm seen such frames and they can cost around $20-$30 CD which is quite reasonable for a frame.

Then all you need to do is to resize your image to fit the frame, which should be not too hard because you do have a little bit of area to play with along the top and bottom of the photograph.

I'll often edit and crop my own images in such a way that they will fit into a standard photo frame. Leaving them "as is" size wise would be nice in most cases but the cost of custom framing is just too steep.

Most serious artists end up doing their framing themselves, rather than passing the meager profits from the sale of their art into the hands of a custom framer, leaving themselves with little if anything to show for their work.

[Mike Buckley]

Soozie,

Your first post mentioned concern about the aspect ratio. Your most recent post mentions concern about making the image larger without distorting it. Please clarify which issue is your concern. Perhaps it's both. I recommend that you post the full-size image so we know exactly what you're dealing with.

By the way, I know little about how large a print can be reasonably obtained from a particular image file, but there are lots of folks here who do understand that.

Also consider looking for a tutorial here at CiC about printing sizes vs. file sizes. I'd be disappointed if that isn't discussed at least briefly.

[ggt]

Manfred: "There are no rules on cropping, just "considerations".

Very true!

Sooz, like John said above --buy a ready-made frame that has extra room. Either have a matte cut to fit both the frame and your pic - or - invest in a "student" type matte-cutter and learn to figure it all yourself. There are probably you-tube videos that will show you how--and other DIY sites on the web. There are basic guidelines for matting --visual balance etc. I could write alot, but it would take up too much room and other's have probably put it out on the web, written better than I could.

I find most frame shops/Hobby Shops have lots of scrap matte that they will sell for often $1 or so. Much cheaper than buying the entire matte board (which is large and a pain to transport and store). Remember to look for acid-free everything.

The math for cutting mattes can get confusing. I diagram it first --always measure twice, cut once.

Also, I look for frames at thrift shops and on the sale racks. A little wood polish or spray paint and I can often get a very nice frame for $1 or so. Just make sure the joins (corners) are tight and square. The sign of a cheap frame is bad joins.

NO NEED to pay for expensive framing if you are willing to do a little work.

My Dear Ole' Dad used to look for scrap lumber in people's garbage and made his own. I have some nice barn lumber frames with old family pictures in them. I have his framing clamps, but not the desire to actually make my own. LOL

[ggt]

I almost forgot.

I've had some of my work printed at zazzle.com. I'm sure you have access to that or a similar site in your part of the world.

I set up my own "store" --and uploaded my image. Then ordered from my store - you can make your store private.

Because they do such volume, the prices are better and you can do custom. You can get your own fabric, wallpaper --just about anything these days if you google enough.

I have a cafepress store as well for other things--cheap t-shirts with our dogs on them for gifts for other people in the breed group etc. Occassionally, a someone else will place an order as well and I make $1 or two. LOL.

Hubby thinks I should be making tons of $$. I tell him I can either create or market, I can't do both.

[Soozie B]

Hi Mike.

My issue ends up being both as I have cropped the picture is it is no longer standard, and as I don't understand how to fix it the picture I have could only be printed as 4x10 as that was the largest available that didn't lose detail at the store I went to yesterday.

What has been posted is the full size image. I don't know what I did to end up with something so small, but I'm shattered that I can't get my head around making it larger to better fit a standard frame or making it so big i will need a trailer to get it home (slight decoration of the truth but added for effect) without sacrificing some of the shot.

Am I describing my issue effectively, or have I worked myself up into such a state I'm now babbling?

Sadly it seems, the

[Soozie B]

Hi Gretchen.

I will investigate your suggestions. Tell hubby he should take on the role as Marketing Manager which leaves you the required time to be inspired enough to get creative.

[Stagecoach]

Hi Soozie,

Ok, so the picture you have posted you say is the full size image after you have 'played' with it as noted in post 13.

For info, the aspect ratio is near enough 10 x 3.5 and image size is only 800 x 283 pixels. So the main problem is not enough pixels to get a decent sized print. I have previously read of a non standard method to increase image size a fair bit and will have a search.

I used to use Paintshop Pro and the image re-sizing function is almost identical in PS so you will find plenty here who can assist with re-sizing procedures.

Do you by any chance have the 'original' file either Jpeg or Raw ??

Grahame

[Soozie B]

Hi Grahame,

I do have the original in jpeg form. I have attached it


Geelong Pier by Soozie_Lou_B, on Flickr

Hopefully there is a solution as I did like the cropped version - if we could make it suitable for framing

I would like to put out a special thanks to all that have contributed to this discussion. Your patience with me has been fabulous. I was getting frustrated with myself so the lord only knows how you all managed to bear with me over this issue I created.

[Mike Buckley]

Soozie,

Grahame asked the same question I was going to ask. When we refer to the full-size image, we refer to the image in the size that it came out of the camera. You might have cropped it (you definitely did in this case). You might have reduced the size of it for posting on the Internet. Both of those situations produces an image that is smaller than the full-size image. It's reasonably clear from your questions that it could be very helpful for you to post the full-size image so we know what you're dealing with. EDIT: I see that you have now posted your full-size image.

I found a basic explanation of using your software to prepare an image for printing: http://graphicssoft.about.com/od/pai...Resolution.htm

Review that web page and the next two in the series. I'm not convinced that it is written well enough to completely remove the cobwebs from your mind, but I think it will probably get you far enough down the road that you will be able to ask more informed questions. Those three web pages explain resolution, DPI vs PPI, resizing, and sharpening. All of those concepts are critical for preparing an electronic file for printing.

The following CiC tutorial about sharpening has really important stuff to understand about the special sharpening requirements for an image file that is to be printed. Take a look at Stage 3 of that explanation: https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tu...sharpening.htm

[Mike Buckley]

All,

I downloaded Soozie's latest image and my software indicates that it's 800 x 534 pixels. Her cropped image is 800 x 283 pixels. I'm going to bow out of the explanation of making it ready for printing because I don't think I can explain it very concisely, which is what she needs now.

Soozie,

Please provide the exact camera model that you're using. The reason that may be helpful is that we need to make absolutely certain that the image that you posted is really the full-size image. It may be, but the image is small enough that it merits pursuing the possibility that it's smaller than the full-size image.

If that really is the full-size image, be aware that you won't be able to successfully print an image, as an example, the size of a large poster. I'll let others explain the details of that.

This stuff can be VERY confusing in the earliest part of the learning curve. All of us have been through it and survived, so hang in there!

[Soozie B]

Hi again Mike.

I understand now that my use of language and terminology may have contributed to the confusion.

Thanks for this information, it will most certainly assist me to ask more informed questions rather than garble my way through. I suppose that is one of the issues in being an eager beaver and a novice all at the same time. I want to learn much faster than my internal processor can absorb, retain and file information for later use and edit before my uneducated brain can warn me to slow down.

Fortunately this is where this forum is proving invaluable. You are all patient, sharing and most of all constructive in how you deal with people of all levels of experience.

[Soozie B]

Hi again Mike

I am so confused with myself that I'm a little worried that I wont be able to answer the question correctly regarding my camera. However, I'll give it my best shot. My camera is a Canon EOS 550D (to the best of my knowledge anyway). Is there anything I should be telling you regarding the camera?