My (brand new) canon 7D produces bad quality pictures

[SteveF]

Hi Melisande,

I popped your raw file into Canon DPP and see that this image was shot in AI focus (generally for moving subjects) and +2/3rds stop exposure. Using DPP I can see the lens focused using 7 focussing points and the two that probably achieved focus were over the model's right hand and her right knee. Personally I find focussing errors more user error when learning new kit and lens combo.

It's worth loading Canon DPP and running it if you continue to shoot raw and you'll be able to track any errors in focussing etc.

Switch to one shot focus for static models and I think you'll be better served. I'd also shoot a few frames on programme, jpegs too on standard and portrait settings in camera and see how they look before spending time on raws.

Hope this helps you. The 7D is a wonderful workhorse capable of producing some damn fine images. A friend of mine uses one on full auto everything including auto focuss points and gets fantastic images.

[SteveF]

I had the 50mm f/1.8 but I did not like it... It was a refurbished one, don't know if they are all like this, but the AF was terrible. I mostly used it in manual mode to be sure, but sometimes you don't have the time to adjust perfectly.
I wanted a large aperture for exposure and bokeh. I mostly take portraits so a beautiful bokeh looks flattering, and with the low light in winter the extra exposure is a good thing. I was hesitating between the Canon 50mm f/1.4 and the Sigma 50mm f/1.4.

Whilst I'm not a Sigma fan they do produce some excellent results. However be careful as the lens focussing ring operates the opposite direction to Canons.

The 50mm 1.8 for it's price is a very useful lens. On your 7D that would give field of view similiar to a 80mm on full frame body.

[rpcrowe]

And rpcrowe, yes I read that many brand new Canon 7D do have a front or back focus or exposure problem. That's why I was wondering if maybe I had no luck with the camera I bought. I read that many people have to send them back to have the problem solved, maybe this is why refurbished cameras are better, because they are tested by humans
But hopefully this is not the case with mine, I will know after doing all the tests !

IMO... Canon refurbished units have a better chance of working directly out of the box because, as you mentioned above, each camera has been tested by a human to ensure that it is working up to specifications. AFAIK cameras coming off the assembly line are not individually tested.

However, if anyone plans to purchase a refurbished Canon unit, I strongly advise that they ensure that the unit they are purchasing is an actual Canon refurbished unit (they come in specially marked white boxes). I have seen equipment claimed to be refurbished which apparently had been purchased from a dealer and returned to the dealer. Most likely a sales person did a quickie check and said "This camera works fine!"

Adorama often has a better price on refurbished units that does Canon. They also provide free shipping and there is no state tax to pay if you don't live in New York State.

All Canon refurbished items come with a 90-day warranty. This has never been a problem to me because the only two cameras I ever needed to return for service were less than 90-days old. These were a 10D and a 350D, my first two SLR cameras which I purchased new.

Adorama formerly provided their own one year warranty on Canon refurbished gear. However, now Adorama charges for the extended warranty. The charge is quite minimal but, I probably would not pay the extra money since I have confidence that any problem with my camera will be evident within the first 90 days. Some buyers actually return the camera to the Canon Service Center for a check-up right before the 90-day waranty is up. I have never felt the need to do so.

I don't know where you live (I suggest that you update your signature) but, I have had excellent results from this Canon Service Center:

Canon USA, Inc
Factory Service Center

15955 Alton Parkway
Irvine, CA 92618
USA
949-753-4200

[Bryan Conner]

A lot of good advice has already been given, especially concerning the AF mode selected. Another possibility is the fact that you shot this image in MRAW. SRAW and MRAW modes throw away a lot of information through compression in order to arrive at the smaller file size. I do not know of a good reason to shoot MRAW....unless you do not have enough space on your memory card. So, try setting your camera to record the images in RAW, not MRAW or SRAW. This could possibly be the culprit.

Edit: I did a quick bit of research on MRAW, and found other complaints of aliasing present in SRAW and MRAW images from Canon Cameras. So, I really do believe that is the case here. The hand looks unsharp because of the aliasing along the border between the light skin and the black sweater. The camera is compressing the information by throwing information that it believes is unnecessary away. Even though it is still a raw file, the image has been thrown away and when the raw converter reconstructs the image, it has to guess on what it needs to add back to arrive at the full resolution. Switch your camera to RAW and I bet you will see a big difference in an image such as this.

[jcuknz]

I do have an f/1.4 lens but never use it in these digital days and my normal lens is f/4-f/5.8 depending on the zoom so I have no experience of working at f/1.4 that I can remember BUT ... before you rubbish the f/1.8 ask yourself if it is not yourself that is the problem. From what I have read working at such wide apertures and AF is fraught with hazards due to the extreme lack of DoF. Particularly if you use a centre focus area and reframe for the shot. You just have to manual focus I gather and the modern DSLR is not really designed to be manual focused without special extra screens etc.

Advocates of boken, a horrible word which I don't normally use, will not agree with me, but in a non-professional situation it is usually posssible to achieve blurred backgrounds in editing and I really cannot see that there will be very much difference between f/1.8 and f/1.4. In fact I really cannot see what people burble on about between what they consider good and bad boken, it is just blurr after all. One of the things about digital and the editing programme that exposure wise it is quite posssible to shoot as if one is using an F/1.4 lens or even an f/1.2 lens and raise the results in editing without loss of IQ.

Your english is very good for I assume somebody with EAASL

[SteveF]

Another possibility is the fact that you shot this image in MRAW. SRAW and MRAW modes throw away a lot of information through compression in order to arrive at the smaller file size. I do not know of a good reason to shoot MRAW....unless you do not have enough space on your memory card. So, try setting your camera to record the images in RAW, not MRAW or SRAW. This could possibly be the culprit.

I'm a jpeg shooter so my raw knowledge is zilch. However, from looking at my camera handbook it clearly states I'm limited to a certain print size by using Mraw or Sraw the same as using M1, M2 or S in jpegs. This is not the same as the compression ratio I can choose in jpegs, i.e. I can 'compress' a jpeg down to quality '1' on any setting but I can't compress the raw file as I don't have the options.

So, I don't think (please correct me if I'm wrong) altering the raw size is going to affect the sharpness of this or any other raw image. I still think that 1/100th sec is maybe too slow a shutter speed in these circumstances with a model who appears to be young and fast acting in her movements and hasn't 'posed'. In the studio we would have eliminated all ambient and froze her with the flash.

[loosecanon]

Firstly don't forget to turn off the image stablisation if you are using a tripod, if the camera and lens are not moving a little as when hand held the IS will hunt and this can lead to soft images akin to cmera shake, which is of course what IS is designed to reduce.

Secondly the auto focus on a 7D is good, very good, but it does take getting used to. For general photography I tend to use the central block which is not so precise as the central spot. The central spot is easy to misplace. Remember by default to camera will focus on the closest object in the frame.

I find my 7D needs -1/3 to give me the exposure I like.

[Bryan Conner]

I'm a jpeg shooter so my raw knowledge is zilch. However, from looking at my camera handbook it clearly states I'm limited to a certain print size by using Mraw or Sraw the same as using M1, M2 or S in jpegs. This is not the same as the compression ratio I can choose in jpegs, i.e. I can 'compress' a jpeg down to quality '1' on any setting but I can't compress the raw file as I don't have the options.

So, I don't think (please correct me if I'm wrong) altering the raw size is going to affect the sharpness of this or any other raw image. I still think that 1/100th sec is maybe too slow a shutter speed in these circumstances with a model who appears to be young and fast acting in her movements and hasn't 'posed'. In the studio we would have eliminated all ambient and froze her with the flash.

If you zoom in on the image, you will see that the edge between her hand and the black sweater is extremely jagged. This is probably the result of both down sampling and compression. It is very difficult to find a lot of technical info on how the s-raw and m-raw raw files are created inside the camera. But, the same thing happens when you downsize an image in photoshop and then compress it. The downsizing from to RAW to M-RAW or S-RAW happens inside the camera. So, the RAW file is being demosaiced and then resized (down sampled) and then compressed when saving to the memory card. This reduction in image size and resolution has to come with some reduction in image quality. I think that reduction in image quality is what we see in this image. This is why I suggested to try shooting in RAW instead of M-RAW and reevaluate. Of course, as always, I could be wrong.

[cyracles]

Hello Melisande,
I am not going to assume completely that your photography is bad but i think its safe to assume that you have not mastered the use of your new equipment. Do not panic, it happens to everyone with new equipment. (new alarm systems, phones etc).
I do not know myself if I'm qualified enough to offer advice here as I am a learner and my tutors are present here on CiC.

That a 7D produces bad images breaks my heart and makes my shutter-snapping finger eager. Look at the following images:







The need post-processing, I know but wait for it. I took this with my Canon 1000D with a 18-55kit(already famous on CiC ) lens which does not auto focus. And oh, i bought it used and not brand new. Now compare 7D and 1000D online, you will surely get my point.

[bmpress]

First thing I do upon buying new cameras/lenses is to do the brick wall test. It is quite simple. Put the camera on a very sturdy tripod in front of a brick wall. Use either a cable release or remote release to insure no camera movement. Take pictures at major f-stop settings, and repeat at two or three distances from the wall. Your camera should be set to auto focus, and you can also take a few using manual live view focus too. Then view the images at 100% crops with no post processing. Be sure to examine the center as well as corners of the shots.

Now you will have verifyed your camera and lens for most uses. Any major problem will surface, but most likely you will develop faith in your equipment and also see some of its fundamental limitations. You will now know which f-stops are sharpest and which are softer. You will also see that your focusing is correct, and if a bit off, can be corrected by some cameras. And finally, you will become more familiar with your equipment.

[melisande]

Hello ! I'm just back from a very rainy week-end but I managed to take some pictures !

And... It appears my disappointment was caused by the lens. I then used a 55-250 mm f/4-5,6 IS which is a bit better, and the difference was huge. It was sharp, with no grain, and beautiful colors. Then I chose RAW instead of MRAW and followed your advice about the AF point (I used the central block).
I think I still have to play with exposure to get used to the camera, but there is no comparison with my first pictures !
So thank you all for your help and advice

A quick jpg just to show you :

before you rubbish the f/1.8 ask yourself if it is not yourself that is the problem. From what I have read working at such wide apertures and AF is fraught with hazards due to the extreme lack of DoF. Particularly if you use a centre focus area and reframe for the shot.

My f/1.8 really had a very bad AF they aren't all like that, but due to the cheap plastic body they are quite fragile and I had no luck with mine. You could even hear something click inside when turning it upside down. half of the time you just pressed the button and... no AF noise at all. Otherwise it was good in manual mode but my eyesight is quite poor so my pictures were all blurred. I advise to buy it new in a store to be sure...

Your english is very good for I assume somebody with EAASL

Thank you ! Actually my second language is german (but I love English and read a lot)

loosecanon : thank you for the tip about IS, I didn't know this ! I wasn't shooting with a tripod at this time, but it will help me in the future.

cyracles : Yeah I understand what you mean, this was the reason for my panic : I had a second-hand canon rebel xti and lenses and took pictures I liked very much, so I was very disappointed not to have the same results with my new camera. But yes, I agree, it is much more sensitive and complicated

bmpress : thanks for the tip ! Here in Paris brick walls are not very common but I'm sure I will find something similar

[Ken MT]

The focus points that you used in the initial image are in RED on the attached file (Zoombrowser comes with Canon software)

[koolkat]

Hi, I shoot both the XTI & 7D and will agree that the 7D is a "handfull" when it comes to getting the AF points sorted out. As far as additional lens to consider I would suggest renting several and checking them out. I've rented several "L" series lens and am currently saving for a 70x200 F4. I also purchased David D. Busch's book on the 7D and have read it extensively to gt up to speed on the 7D. Just keep shooting and leaning.

[Dtilden]

thank you, Terri I also found this very helpful. Dennis

[rpcrowe]

Melisande...

Regarding the focus points and AF mode.

I use one shot AF and the full range of focus points when shooting subjects that are not moving.

However, when a subject is moving; I like to use AI Servo AF (I never have been able to get consistently good imagery using AI Focus AF) with AF point expansion.

However, when switching from still to moving subjects, the photographer often doesn't have the time to switch focusing parameters. That is where the three User Selected Modes of the 7D come in handy. I will normally have my camera set up for non-moving subjects but, I have the parameters I like to use for moving subjects set up on User Mode C-1. That will switch the shooting parameters from what I like to use for still subjects to those I use for moving subjects with one twist of the camera mode dial. This really comes in handy when action is happening fast.

Note: The Canon 60D has one User selected mode, the 50D has two and the 40D was the first camera to be equipped with user selected modes and has three; like the 7D.

The focusing system of the 7D is quite sophisticated and despite having the camera for over a year, don't think that I am getting everything possible out of the system. In fact a Canon representative set my 7D up with two additional ways to focus which are, for some reason. locked out in the camera's default mode. I am going to have to work more with the camera to take advantage of the sophisticaltion. However, even as I use it now, the camera provides excellent focus results. See these two examples...





Many photographers like to set their 7D camera up for rear button focus. I am learning to use that technique but for a guy like me, who can't walk and chew gum at the same time, using two fingers on the same hand for anything is difficult to learn.

[calexe]

Nice thread. Some thoughts from me, with your permission:

1. To collegues thinking of Sigma 50 f1,4 HSM vs. Canon EF 50 f/1,4 USM:
I had both. The Sigma for 3 days, I returned it at now use the EF 50 f/1,4. Most annoying problems with Sigma 50 f1,4 HSM here.
- With maximum aperture the zones slightly OoF near the subject had strong and unpleasant fringing. Might be due a bad copy. But not the next ones.
- When using a smaller aperture (say f/4) the focus was allways slightly wrong. I studied this on net, seems to to be a design problem. Focus shifts when closing the aperture at this lens. Remember, you execute focusing with mirror down and lens opened at maximum aperture (in this case at f/1,4). When you take the photo the mirror goes up and the aperture closes to whatever value you / camera has set. Focus should stay fixed on the same distance after changing the aperture. With this lens it does not.
- A very annoying one: AF precision was heavily influenced by ambiant temperature. I calibrated the 7D with the Sigma lens indoor (+24C) and AF worked acceptable indoor. Go outdoor at +10C --> BF or FF (I do not rember which one). Ok, calibrate outdoor, AF works quite precise, but returning indoor --> again BF/FF.
- Finally, AF was quite allways hunting. Very quickly, but it was most of the time unsure where to stop the focusing.
Canon EF 50 f/1,4 USM is not stellar but at least usable.
Be careful with sponsored reviewers saying (about Sigma 50 f/1,4 HSM): "Optically perfect but ... We may have received a bad copy"

2. Quickly changing from One Shot to AI Servo AF
You may experiment with BBAF = Back Button AF (google for it). There are some problems regarding automatic exposure in AI Servo AF with evaluative metering, problems which beginners will not notice and more advanced users may be aware of. But in terms of changing from One Shot to AI Servo AF --> this can be made instantly.
@rpcrowe:
By the way, it is strongly recommended not to chew gum when using BBAF
Very nice examples anyhow. Probably you had finished your gum reserve...

3. AF system of 7D
This is very, very nice designed. Quite complex, but it is worth the effort to learn it, understand it and use it. It is really pitty to work exclusively only with the central AF on 7D. Just use the optimal mode for each situation, focusing modes can be changed very quickly. E.g. Auto Select 19-point AF (all) works very nice with birds in flight or when photographying groups of people with WA-normal lens. AF point expansion works good when tracking moving subjects. Single point AF and Spot AF work great with portraits (AF on eyes) or with lenses with large maximal aperture, when you have tiny DoF and you need to control exactly where the fosus is. Should I mention further that you can make some setup to instantly access 3 different AF positions/zones, the central AF + 2 custom ones, just by pressing one button on the camera and without moving your eyes from the viewfinder? And, finally, colateral AF points are quite precise in most cases when you have enogh light in the scene.

[Gazza]

I to are waiting delivery of a 7D and have noted the various comments, I ll keep them in mind. Without suggesting there is anything wrong with Sigma lens, I do believe you are better off putting Canon lens on Canon cameras. Just my opinion, keep resale in mind.

[oleleclos]

Could this be a case of you being new to raw files with a bit of front focusing thrown in (further exacerbated by a kit lens)?

All raw files are soft, if only because of the anti-aliasing filter in front of the sensor, so you always have to apply some degree of sharpening. Having said that, I also believe the model in this picture is slightly out of focus.

This is how I see a section of the unsharpened image at 100%:



The reason I chose this crop is that when I sharpen it in Lightroom (amount 50, radius 1), it looks like this:



To me it looks like the leaf in the lower left hand corner is now sharper than the shoes, and if that's the case then your lens focuses in front of the object.

Hope this helps.

[calexe]

Send the raw file. Or look by yourself with DPP where the focus actually was.

[oleleclos]

Send the raw file. Or look by yourself with DPP where the focus actually was.

The focus points are shown in an earlier post. That doesn't mean that the camera or lens actually manages to focus on those points, though.