Project 52 Christina S

[Geoff F]

More tricky questions, Christina.

But that is the way to learn.

Start with this tutorial https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tu...te-balance.htm

Then when you think you understand everything, have a read of this http://www.ronbigelow.com/articles/w...te_balance.htm

Normally, the Auto White Balance does a good job but it can be fooled by difficult conditions. Shooting Raw gives you a second chance to tweak the auto settings. I normally make a few adjustments at this stage.

Using a white card to set up a Custom White Balance on your camera should give perfect results most of the time. It does mean a little bit of extra time and a few clicks through the camera menu to set everything up though. So I normally default to Auto WB which is ready for those quick shots where 'thinking time' would miss the shot.

Once your Custom WB has been set in the camera it should work for all other shots unless the light changes. Make sure you cancel the setting after shooting though, otherwise your next day's photos may be totally wrong.

With regard to snow, which is a rarity for where I live. It is true that you need a little extra positive exposure balance to keep the snow pure white; but this does risk getting a bit of over exposure hotspots.

Therefore, I normally prefer to have bright areas go a little dark at the time of shooting and recover correct colour/exposure during editing.

Checking the exposure levels around the scene with spot metering is always a good idea, providing you have time before shooting. This should, in theory, give you perfect exposure.

[Brownbear]

Thank you. I will try it out.
the frost was beautiful... looks like jewels

[Brownbear]

More homework assignments Geoff

Thank you. Very helpful, and appreciated as always. I will review both links.

I did correct the white balance in raw, and I now see that if I try using a white card (rather than the grey card) in just one photo, in raw I can set the white balance for all the photos, if the lighting conditions are the same.

In which photo does the white balance look to be set right. The original or the one I corrected? Is it not possible to know just by looking at the photo?

Thank you.

[Geoff F]

The first image seems a fraction off pure white. Maybe a tiny bit on the yellow side?

What I often do is to measure the pixel values for an area which should be pure white and use that as a guide.

For example, pure white should have values of R255, G255, B255. Although in reality, a reading of 255 is likely to seem a fraction over exposed. However, the balance between RGB gives me a clue as to any potential problems.

Also, when in doubt over how to edit, I sometimes try the Auto Curves setting. I never actually use that adjustment but it gives me a guide about how to proceed with my own adjustments.

[Brownbear]

Yes, I'm still practicing my editing... Here is the original shot for which I used Lightroom and a selector brush to paint the sky so it was not so washed out... Somehow the sky turned black, and it would look okay if I was better with selection (yes, I need to find more time to practice)



Here is my edit... I think I did a better job of selecting around the bird than I did with the cricket? Agreed or not?
Why do I have black speckles in the photo? And why when I was working on the photo did the sky turn black? And why does it look like I also edited the bird, somehow?



Thank you

[Brownbear]

Any input on this edit for me to learn from? Thank you.

[Geoff F]

I think we need a little more information on exactly what you want to do; and what you tried with this edit.

I looked at it last night but left it hoping it would make more sense today.

Firstly, drawing a selection around an item is never as easy as it looks on those video tutorials.

One tip which often works for me is to create a duplicate layer and increase the saturation/contrast etc (whatever works best) to create some firm edges. Carefully use the auto select tool to draw around the edges. Or whatever option works best. Delete the duplicate layer so the selection drops down onto the original layer.

Did you intend to have a black background here or have you accidentally erased to the background colour etc? Or something similar.

I assume there are defects in the new background colour because there were minute specks in the original background which weren't correctly selected/erased etc so they haven't fully taken on the new attributes.

The increase in colour/contrast of the bird make me wonder if you have actually applied background colour across the whole area including bird.

I suspect the only answer is to try this edit again and keep detailed notes of exactly what you do so we can then run through your procedure and see what could be improved.

[Brownbear]

Hi Geoff,
Thank you. I will try this again today or tomorrow.

I opened the raw file and edited to make the bird look better... Then I opened it in Elements, created a duplicate layer, selected around the bird, inverted the selection. I was trying to make the sky bluer, so I think I decreased the exposure, shadows and highlights... It looked black right away but I stuck with it because I thought the black background could look good, or that it would turn blue when the edit was finished...

Back to the editing board, and this time I will write down what I did, and post again. Good to know.. Selecting things is very difficult.

[Brownbear]

Hi again,

Here is what I did.. I tried to follow your instructions as closely as possible but got lost in the process.

I opened the raw file in Elements 9. Fixed white balance and increased clarity...

Next I opened the file in Elements and increased saturation and contrast until the photo looked real ugly but I could see what I was selecting (Thank you for that tip)... I used the quick selection tool, and selected as best as I could with my current ability.

I created a duplicate layer and inverted the selection... Then I decreased the shadows down to 0, and decreased the highlights by 48... Then I deleted the duplicate layer following your instructions, but I'd like to say why did I create this this duplicate layer, only to delete it?


Next I selected the paint brush and tried to paint the background (sky) blue using the colour selection, and the paint bucket tool, but no blue colour was available?

So I went to create photo filter and tried to select a blue filter but the blue filters looked purple and the colour was very unattractive, so instead I chose a natural coloured filter which looked better than the purple filter. I feathered the edges 5 points to try and hide my less then talented selection.

Here are the results (different photo filters)




I think my edit looks better than my first try, however, learning to select precisely seems like a lifelong practice thing (more time than I have)... in this photo I can see that I have lost all the fine hairs along the pelicans neck and a few of the tufts on it's head... If I buy one of those pens will it make a large difference? How much practice does it take to become skilled at selecting things? hours, months?

Also I don't understand why I could not paint the background blue... Whenever you hear about photoshop it always seems to me that it is used to make skies bluer, so why can't I find this tool?

Also starting on page 95 of Scott Kelby's Photoshop Elements 9, it describes how one can take a landscape photo with an overexposed sky by

1. opening the file in raw, editing for the foreground and saving this edit
2. opening the same file in raw, editing to achieve the proper exposure in the sky
3. blending these photos together
4. create a layer mask and using the brush paint on the sky to reveal the new edited exposure

I manage to complete steps 1-3 on the same pelican. I then created a layer mask, selected the brush tool, and tried to paint over the sky to reveal my edits but the effect was like a brown blurred fresco painting of sort (not like the blue sky I was trying for and nothing like the photos in the book show)... so I gave up.

Thank you for your time Geoff... After this I will move on to something else and practice selecting things on my own. I understand the concept of layers now (thank you for all your time and advice)... I just don't know if I have the patience and time to learn this selection skill... Well, I do but it will likely take me 2 years to learn how to do it well.

All my best
Christina

[Dave Humphries]

Hi Christina,

I'm afraid I can't work out what happened either

When you're editing, if you do something that has an unexpected effect, instead of just 'pressing on', try to work out what caused it, use say Undo, then do it again, but look for other (less obvious) controls that may be affecting the outcome. These may be found lurking along the top edge of the window, where drop lists with choice values like; Highlights, Mid-tones or Shadows can greatly affect what happens, as might sliders labelled "Opacity" or "Flow".

UPDATE: I wrote the above before seeing your latest post just above.

One tip when selecting and refining their edges is to zoom in to make precise adjustments and zoom back out to see the whole picture.

Good luck,

[Brownbear]

Thank you Dave.

I have a lot of pelicans with washed out skies, so I guess I will just make learning how to make a blue sky my Project 52 (in its' entirety) and try one photo every week...

I will try your suggestion for the next photo... I did zoom in 100% but still finding it very difficult to select properly.

until later... thank you.

[Geoff F]

That is certainly a tricky image to work with, Christina.

I've had a quick play around with your original image, but it is fairly low resolution.

A decent pen and drawing tablet really does make a difference with this sort of thing. And also useful for anywhere that you use brushes to make edits as well as selections etc. But not cheap for the best quality equipment.

Anyway, my quick edit is here https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/fo...0&d=1352842451

But it certainly isn't perfect and you can see the join.

Originally, I tried just using the Magic Eraser to remove the background but although it worked I wasn't happy with the result. So I had another go with the Magnetic Edge selection tool.

Made a duplicate layer and added an Adjustment Layer (Curves) but didn't make any adjustments other than change the adjustment layer blend mode to Overlay. This created a high contrast image. Merged the adjustment layer and duplicate layer. Ready for selection.

Drew around the head area with the Magnetic Edge tool on basic settings (a little adjustment of settings might have worked better).

Contracted the selection by 2 pixels and feathered by 3 pixels. There are other options at this stage, which might work better.

Deleted the high contrast selected duplicate layer. The selection dropped down to the original image. The one which needed to be selected. (The previous procedure with the duplicate layer was simply to produce a stronger edge for selection.)

Keep this image safe.

Opened a new background sky and resized. Copied and pasted the selection (head) onto the new background sky. Did a little bit of cleaning up and adjustment of contrast brightness and sharpness selectively as required.

As I said, far from perfect; but it might give you some ideas of what is possible with more care.

[Brownbear]

Hi Geoff,
You're edit looks really cool and is exactly what I had in mind when I tried it. Thank you for taking the time to do this to demonstrate what is possible with PSE

I plan to buy one of those pens but it will be a month or two before I can do so, so for now i will just practice with my mouse... Right now I am just trying to learn the how to's of selecting and concepts of working with layers, so the mouse will have to suffice for now.

I have written down your instructions (simple and easy to follow - thank you) and I will try it with my next bird/blue sky edit..

A big thank you!

[Cantab]

Thank you Christina and Geoff for this discussion. I'm learning a lot from it and getting ideas to try out. Christina, I'm several steps behind you so keep asking questions and getting advice!

[Brownbear]

Hi Bruce,
It's nice to know that someone is learning from my attempt to learn how to edit photos. thank you.
Hopefully one day I will post a nicely edited photo.

[Brownbear]

Here is my edit attempt for this week using Elements 9

Original shrunk to 1200 pixels.. I like the way I caught the deer in action but the lighting was poor and I did not like the background in the upper half of the photo.



I selected the deer, and I think my selection skills are improving (far from perfect but I will wait to perfect this - ie; when I buy that whatcom pen selector)

Next I created a duplicate layer. Then I darkened the shadows in the background of the photo. Then I added an orange photo filter to warm up the background, and then I cropped the photo to eliminate most of the background.

Here is the photo... Is this an improvement?



I was still not crazy about the photo so I tried artistic brush applied to the new edit, so it looks like a painting...




Which I like, but now it is not really a photo? Do people use these artistic edits to make their photos look like paintings?

Anyway, how did I do? How would someone else edit this photo to improve it?

Thank you.

[Geoff F]

Not an easy subject to put a selection around, Christina. There is a bit of 'light fringing' on the deer. So your result is good.

I think the only thing I would have done differently would be to leave a fraction more space above it's ears but crop tighter on the right side. So there is more space in front than behind the deer.

It doesn't need a lot, but it usually looks better if there is a bit more space for the subject to 'move towards'. The bottom is OK, but could be adjusted slightly if necessary.

Adding a little more space at the top will move the 'horizon' towards the centre but I think it will be acceptable in this case.

Artistic effects (at least the better ones) can look good when printed on artistic paper. Computer screens never show these effects well.

One other thing which I would probably do, is to selectively sharpen just the deer.

The simple edit is to roughly draw a selection around the required area using the Freehand Selection Tool. You don't need to be exact as long as you are slightly outside of the subject. Feather the selection (say somewhere around 5 to 10 pixels). Apply your sharpening which will only effect the selected area. And the feathering will prevent any harsh edges.

Don't use for excessive sharpening and some 'noise' may be seen around the selection edge at higher magnification. But it usually works OK for me.

The correct method is to create a duplicate layer and sharpen. Don't worry if the background seems excessive or noisy, just concentrate on the main subject. Add a mask and edit so the sharpening only applies to the edited mask areas. Gradually build up the effect with several passes of a low opacity soft edged brush. (Maybe 20 to 30% opacity.

The advantage with this method is that you can vary the amount of sharpening actually applied to various parts of the required subject.

[Brownbear]

As always very helpful...thank you Geoff.

I will try this again in a few days, including the sharpening and cropping and post the results. I don't think I have a freehand selector tool but I will be looking for it, for sure!

Also I am wondering why I don't see other members Project 52's... Surely I am not the only one participating and sharing all my goofy edits?

[Geoff F]

You will have a 'freehand selection tool' but it may be called something different. That is just what I call it, from an earlier software editor which I used. It's one of the Lasso Tool options.

I did mention the lack of replies to Project 52 threads in a reply to a post from Leo. Why so polite?

And some other '52ers' have agreed that it is tending to unwilling become something of a 'restricted club'.

Some members have 'fallen by the wayside' but fortunately, others have joined in partly through the project.

Possibly it does need some encouragement to reply though, particularly with those CinC newer members who have joined during the past year.

[Brownbear]

Thank you

I'm so polite because I don't feel I have enough experience to advise others yet... That said I do feel comfortable saying if I like a photo or not, and why..

I'd love to see some other members participate in project 52, so that I can learn from other peoples edits, etc... I learn a lot just by reading the replies that the more knowledgable and experienced members post...

And I can say that from my participation, I now understand layers and selection, and finding time practicing my selections (poor as they may be - but getting better) only because I'm participating, so that is a good thing. It's like having your own photography tutor... Thanks a million Geoff!