What am I missing in this landscape?

[Colin Southern]

Thanks for the offer! Right now I have a picture of a pile of chain in my office that I took with my old camera, Rebel, a few years ago, printer on canvas and mounted, actually very nice looking! It is amazing that people look at it and think it was taken by a master of photography!

It was!

Seriously, one of the things that I hoped to impart to you when I processed your shot is that you don't have to have "sharp details" with "delicate exposures" (blah blah blah) to come up something that looks really stunning - honestly - that simple composition processed correctly would be a real jaw-dropper when it was all finished (colours adjusted - levels set - cropped and stretched to a panoramic aspect ratio - printed and framed behind glass). VERY saleable too in my opinion.

I'll keep the offer of processing for you open in case you change your mind - I think that keep it or sell it, it's something youd be immensly proud of (even if just done as a relatively small framed print) (say 18" across).

[agaace]

Wow, thanks for all the advice Colin! I'll try to use your techniques next time I'm out shooting.
After I bought my last lens I thought I'm done with spending money but the more I see photos like yours and the more I read about it, the more I want to play with filters, and then for shots like this one I'd need a metering device.. geez, will I never stop spending money on photography?? I know it's such a rewarding hobby in terms of satisfaction.. if only it could be a bit rewarding in terms of some extra digits on my bank account
Now seriously, I never tried any filters so far.. Do they work well with wide angle lens? I've got the 10-22mm lens.. and its front element doesn't move so it should be fine? I was thinking of playing with the polariser filter, I saw some examples how it can help increase the contrast in the sky and the clouds, and help saturate the blue sky. I heard about the GND filter, what does it help with? What filters would you recommend at the very beginning?

[Dave Humphries]

Now seriously, I never tried any filters so far.. Do they work well with wide angle lens? I've got the 10-22mm lens.. and its front element doesn't move so it should be fine? I was thinking of playing with the polariser filter, I saw some examples how it can help increase the contrast in the sky and the clouds, and help saturate the blue sky. I heard about the GND filter, what does it help with? What filters would you recommend at the very beginning?

Hi Agata,

A polariser is not going to be quite as successful with a 10-22mm as you might hope on skies because the darkening effect is maximum at 90 degrees to the sun and with such a WA lens, you are going to also have the 180 degrees to sun also in the field of view; where the effect is much less pronounced

That said, it should still be effective for other uses like enhancing saturation on foliage, shiny cars, etc. and also removing reflections from the surface of water and when shooting through glass.

Encroaching on Colin's speciality now ...

The GND, or Graduated ND, is used to say, apply ND to the top half (sky) of a shot while leaving the bottom clear. A reverse GND has a dark bit across the middle and is clearer at top and bottom, useful for when the sun is in shot on horizon and you want to still expose the clouds and foreground.

How'd I do Colin? Please fill in the gaps!

[Colin Southern]

will I never stop spending money on photography??

If your anything like me then probably not

I know it's such a rewarding hobby in terms of satisfaction.. if only it could be a bit rewarding in terms of some extra digits on my bank account

I know the feeling! The only consolation is that if you ever do decide to sell up then you'll probably be able to get a higher percentage of your money back than you would be able to get with many other types of items in life.

Now seriously, I never tried any filters so far.. Do they work well with wide angle lens? I've got the 10-22mm lens.. and its front element doesn't move so it should be fine?

It depends on the filter - as Dave mentioned, polarisers are a waste of money on a wide-angle lens (in fact I own two rather expensive ones and never use either of them for anything); yes, they do increase the contrast of clouds, but then again, so does a swipe of the burn tool set to shadows or mid-tones!

The two filters I use the most are GND to knock back the power of the background to help with foreground detail (usually when shooting into the light), and my Singh-Ray Vari-ND to attenuate the light by 2 to 8 stops (for extending exposures).

I was thinking of playing with the polariser filter, I saw some examples how it can help increase the contrast in the sky and the clouds, and help saturate the blue sky. I heard about the GND filter, what does it help with? What filters would you recommend at the very beginning?

They only increase the saturation of the sky because a higher degree of exposure washes out colours; if you dial in a stop or two of -ve EC you'll get the same thing (although you'll have to bring up shadow detail with the fill light control, and it may be a bit noiser in theory). My personal recommendations for filters are as per what I wrote for Ali, but just let me know if you need to talk about them more -- always happy to help

[Alis]

I'll keep the offer of processing for you open in case you change your mind - I think that keep it or sell it, it's something youd be immensly proud of (even if just done as a relatively small framed print) (say 18" across).

Thanks, I would love to see what you do with it. I just thought it is not worth it. The place is a water resorvoire in the middle of Boston. Our tap water comes from that place. It is a very small "lake" but that does not matter. I am sure you will make it interesting.

I will send you the link to the file right now.

Thanks!

[Colin Southern]

Thanks, I would love to see what you do with it. I just thought it is not worth it. The place is a water resorvoire in the middle of Boston. Our tap water comes from that place. It is a very small "lake" but that does not matter. I am sure you will make it interesting.

I will send you the link to the file right now.

Thanks!

Hi Ali,

I'll take a look at it later -- fun exercise for tonight

Personally, I think that words like "it's only" are probably the two most dangerous words ever used in photography -- in my opinion, if the shot looks great then "who cares" about the "status" of the scene. I've lost count of the number of keepers I've scored from mundane places I've driven past 100 times until that one day when the lightbulb clicked on and I saw something.

You've possibly seen a police dog handler with his dog? -- he calls out "find the bad guy - find the bad guy", and the dog races of sniffing in all directions ... bit like me on photo location with "find the beauty ... find the beauty" - constantly thinking about what might work - how to approach it etc (probably too much information!).

Update: Ali, would you be able to PM me your ACR settings - I can't seem to match up the colour temperature which what you've got. Did you mask off the top or bottom and treat them differently? Also, what shall we call it? Will you be wanting the high-res PSD sent back?

[Alis]

Update: Ali, would you be able to PM me your ACR settings - I can't seem to match up the colour temperature which what you've got. Did you mask off the top or bottom and treat them differently? Also, what shall we call it? Will you be wanting the high-res PSD sent back?

Hi Colin,

Thanks for the tips and for taking the time to work on it.

About the setting, I shot this the day you guys were talking about using LAB color and separating color channels, so I played with it in lab color and what you see is not really the color of the sky that day, if that is what you are looking for. I do not remember the setting I used as I reset it just before I sent the file to you to see how it looked like without processing.

So I guess use your imagination! Sorry about that!

Also, I would love to have the high quality processed file if you are able to send it to me.

Oh, about the name, I leave that one to you too!

Also, I did use masks for the top and bottom parts. Basically, since the sky was too bright and I did not have any filters, exposed the sence in the middle and thought I can bring out the detail later out of it by blending layers and masks in PS.

Thanks!

[Colin Southern]

Ak - OK. No problem - it just didn't add up the way it looked, and I thought I might just have the wrong combination somewhere (I always wondered why the colour of the water was so different to that of the sky!).

[Alis]

Hi Ali,


The Vari-ND is a screw in filter - so only choices are 82mm (for EF16-35/F2.8L) and 77mm (for EF24-70/2.8L & EF70-200/2.8L) - too easy eh?

Hi Colin. Forgot to thank you for the list here but have been staring at it quite a few times. I have a question though. I was watching a video on exposure control and the guy said that instread of buying teh 82 and 77 mm filters, you can buy the 82 and get an adapter to fit it to the 77mm lens. And the advantave beside saving 400 bucks is that you get less vignietting.

What do you think?

[Colin Southern]

Hi Ali,

I don't have any great problem with that advice, except ...

If you buy an 82mm Vari-ND and use a 77/82 upsizing ring then if you then want to add other filters then they need to be 82mm as well (thinking more of the sliding sort than the screw in sort here). Whether or not that an issue for you I don't know (it would be for me).

In terms of vignetting, you'll get it anyway with UWA lenses below about 22mm on a FF camera (using a Vari-ND); I doubt that 82 -v- 77 would make much (read "any") difference in practice.

Do you have an EF16-35/2.8L?

[Alis]

Hi Ali,

I don't have any great problem with that advice, except ...

If you buy an 82mm Vari-ND and use a 77/82 upsizing ring then if you then want to add other filters then they need to be 82mm as well (thinking more of the sliding sort than the screw in sort here). Whether or not that an issue for you I don't know (it would be for me).

In terms of vignetting, you'll get it anyway with UWA lenses below about 22mm on a FF camera (using a Vari-ND); I doubt that 82 -v- 77 would make much (read "any") difference in practice.

Do you have an EF16-35/2.8L?

Thanks!

Yes, I have the EF16-35/2.8L which is I guess 82mm.

And if I buy just one for now, which lens takes priority for Vari-ND do you think just to start?

[Alis]

Hi Ali,

The Vari-ND is a screw in filter - so only choices are 82mm (for EF16-35/F2.8L) and 77mm (for EF24-70/2.8L & EF70-200/2.8L) - too easy eh?

And which thickness for these filters? There seems to be two versions. I am telling you, this is making me dizzy

[Colin Southern]

And which thickness for these filters? There seems to be two versions. I am telling you, this is making me dizzy

They don't make a thin version of the 82mm Vari-ND (I'm told that Bob Singh tried, but wasn't 100% happy with it's performance).

I suggest avoiding the thin version as it doesn't have front threads - which will limit you in years to come when you try to stack filters.

[Alis]

They don't make a thin version of the 82mm Vari-ND (I'm told that Bob Singh tried, but wasn't 100% happy with it's performance).

I suggest avoiding the thin version as it doesn't have front threads - which will limit you in years to come when you try to stack filters.

Thank you so much, Colin. They are on their way.

Unfortunately, B&H is out of the foundation kit for the 82 mm, and looks like they are the only ones selling it. He offered an adapter to make it fit the 77mm but I passed the offer.

[Colin Southern]

Thank you so much, Colin. They are on their way.

Unfortunately, B&H is out of the foundation kit for the 82 mm, and looks like they are the only ones selling it. He offered an adapter to make it fit the 77mm but I passed the offer.

Hi Ali,

I'm confused (normal state of being for me!). The foundation kit is "size neutral" - you just need the right size adaptor ring to mate it with the relevant lens.

Do you have the EF16-35/2.8L? (yet? )

[Alis]

Hi Ali,

I'm confused (normal state of being for me!). The foundation kit is "size neutral" - you just need the right size adaptor ring to mate it with the relevant lens.

Do you have the EF16-35/2.8L? (yet? )

I am sorry. I meant the ring adapter ring for 82 mm. He suggested another ring adapter to make the foundation to fit 77mm.

I do have the 16-35mm/F2.8 but I guess I will follow your instructions in your recent article until I get on of those adapters for 82mm. The good thing is that landscape can wait for me!

[Colin Southern]

I am sorry. I meant the ring adapter ring for 82 mm. He suggested another ring adapter to make the foundation to fit 77mm.

I do have the 16-35mm/F2.8 but I guess I will follow your instructions in your recent article until I get on of those adapters for 82mm. The good thing is that landscape can wait for me!

Hi Ali,

Keep in mind that there's 2 versions of the 82mm adaptor (a "standard" and a "WA" - wide-angle version).

Both are showing as being in stock at B&H; WA Version and Standard Version am I missing something here? (I'd suggest the wide-angle one).

[Alis]

Hi Ali,

Keep in mind that there's 2 versions of the 82mm adaptor (a "standard" and a "WA" - wide-angle version).

Both are showing as being in stock at B&H; WA Version and Standard Version am I missing something here? (I'd suggest the wide-angle one).

Turns out I screwed up big time and you think you are confused!

Your are right again, I actually bought the 82mm ring and they must be out of the 77mm. The problem is that I ordered the 77mm VariND filter from Singh-Ray! Now I have to buy the other one too, not that they have to always go together but at least sometimes I need both, right?

PS: I just ordered the 82mm Vari ND.

[Colin Southern]

Hi Ali,

I've got both as well. Without putting too fine a point on it - when you've got the money it's often just not worth mucking around with. If you do try to save a few $$$ 9 times out of 10 it'll bite you in the bum the first time you go to use it.

On a lighter note, I'm looking forward to visiting Boston - if the current plan goes ahead I'll not need to bring any gear - I should be able to just grap yours and carry on as per normal! (not too sure about that "entry-level" 5D2 though )

Mind you, I guess you're probably thinking the same if you visit New Zealand! (I'll bet I could recognise your son if I picked you up from the airport!).

[Alis]

Hi Ali,

I've got both as well. Without putting too fine a point on it - when you've got the money it's often just not worth mucking around with. If you do try to save a few $$$ 9 times out of 10 it'll bite you in the bum the first time you go to use it.

On a lighter note, I'm looking forward to visiting Boston - if the current plan goes ahead I'll not need to bring any gear - I should be able to just grap yours and carry on as per normal! (not too sure about that "entry-level" 5D2 though )

Mind you, I guess you're probably thinking the same if you visit New Zealand! (I'll bet I could recognise your son if I picked you up from the airport!).

My only problem with spending all this money is that I am not sure at all I can use all these gear and get anything reasonable out of it but now I have to really try hard. I think getting up early or staying out late would be the biggest problem for a while...

About your trip, I would love to host you in Boston and show you around. New England area some of the best landscapes in the country, let alone some of the most historic architecture! And for gear, as long as you don't need anything more than 3 stops dark, you can rely on mine... And about the camera, I do not think you will have any problem using the DIGIC IV processor at all