Thoughts on Image Editing - Do we do it too much?

[KentDub]

Tweaking after the event is cheating

I second that! (To an extend at least )

Don't get me wrong - there is a definate place for PP. I just believe in 'getting it right optically/in-camera' is the way to go, and PP is for final touches, not massive correction of incompetince.

I've worked on a lot of video footage doing greenscreen work where things where just thrown togther on set. Needless to say it took days longer to extract people than it should have and the results are always sub-par.

As an audiophile I can relate it to the signal flow -- you only adjust the volume at the last item in the chain (right before the amps) - All others should be set to 'line level' (no effect). Any deivation from that introduces noise. Now, on the flip side - using it creativly is always acceptable, but the longer you keep that high-quality version through your pipeline/workflow the more the image/audio will work well with drastic effects.

Too often people come to me with photos or video and ask me to make them look amazing in photoshop. Of course, the source they give me is always garbage and they're always disapointed when I give them garbage back. Post Production is not like SuperTroopers (search on IMDB) -- there is no 'Enhance' button.

Just my two cents

[Colin Southern]

Just as I don't like images that need photoshopped I don't like images that look photoshopped. I know I'm not good at PP but I do try to make it look "right".

"Not liking images that look Photoshopped" in my mind is a bit like saying "I can always tell when someone is wearing a wig". Now if someone WAS wearing a wig - but you couldn't tell - then how would you know it's a wig? Some with Photoshop IMO. If an image had been Photoshopped - but it didn't look Photoshopped - then how would you still know that it had been Photoshopped?

My observation is that because cameras don't capture things in the same way that a human eye does, post-processing is ALWAYS needed to some degree, even if it's just a little sharpening to counter the softness of the digitization process (to make it look like it looked to the human eye).

[Red Squirrel]

An interesting discussion this one.
It seems that most people edit their photo's - to some degree. Even if it's just cropping or sharpening.
I've only taken photography seriously for about a year and have always held that I want my pictures to be 'real' and not 'fabricated in photoshop but my husband reminds me and, as you say in your first post on page one Colin, that editing went on before the digital age.
So, I do a bit of editing to make my pictures easier on the eye, that's all. If it needed a lot of Photoshop I'd bin it.

[Colin Southern]

We had a similar discussion recently - you might like to have a read through some of the comments here

[KentDub]

After re-reading some of my posts I need to mention something -- because I come off as a purist. I can't live without photoshop, and have nothing against photo manipulation (unless its journalism). My main gripe is constantly hearing people tell other people, and worse, me, "oh you can just fix it in post". Do it right on the camera (if reasonably possible), and the end results will be ten-fold better -- in otherwords, post is easier with quality input.
... This may have something to do with my compositing and retouching gigs -- but as always, a personal decision, I'd like to keep my input as clean as possible so the output is as clean as possible. No one else might see the difference but I sure can

[Colin Southern]

After re-reading some of my posts I need to mention something -- because I come off as a purist. I can't live without photoshop, and have nothing against photo manipulation (unless its journalism). My main gripe is constantly hearing people tell other people, and worse, me, "oh you can just fix it in post". Do it right on the camera (if reasonably possible), and the end results will be ten-fold better -- in otherwords, post is easier with quality input.
... This may have something to do with my compositing and retouching gigs -- but as always, a personal decision, I'd like to keep my input as clean as possible so the output is as clean as possible. No one else might see the difference but I sure can

I like to think of the end result being the accumulation of all that went before it (both in camera and in PP); lots of opportunity for variation & creativity in both phases.

I think that at a basic level there is a certain amount of latitude to fix mistakes (probably levels being the obvious example there), but I agree 100% that the better the initial capture, the more options (and less work required) in processing. At a more advance level though, I think that it's simply impossible to do a lot of things in camera, unless the bride and groom really DID jump from the plane in full wedding attire, without a parachute!

[KentDub]

I like to think of the end result being the accumulation of all that went before it (both in camera and in PP); lots of opportunity for variation & creativity in both phases.

I think that at a basic level there is a certain amount of latitude to fix mistakes (probably levels being the obvious example there), but I agree 100% that the better the initial capture, the more options (and less work required) in processing. At a more advance level though, I think that it's simply impossible to do a lot of things in camera, unless the bride and groom really DID jump from the plane in full wedding attire, without a parachute!

That's what I was trying to say! So... what he said ^^

[Bill44]

Yes I agree that the better the out of camera shot the better the final result.

To go back to the cake analogy, you can get a perfect cake out of the oven but then you need to do the icing and decoration. The icing and decoration is the post processing.

What say you Dave?

[Bill44]

As for over photoshopping a shot, think about this:-

One blurred photo is a mistake.
10 blurred photos is carelessness.
100 blurred photos is an individual art style.

[KentDub]

As for over photoshopping a shot, think about this:-

One blurred photo is a mistake.
10 blurred photos is carelessness.
100 blurred photos is an individual art style.

1000 blurred photos -- pick a new hobby!

j/k

[GillR]

As for over photoshopping a shot, think about this:-

One blurred photo is a mistake.
10 blurred photos is carelessness.
100 blurred photos is an individual art style.

Love it!

On another photography forum I frequent I remember someone posting a rather, umm, "usual" image of a person (wish I could find it now ) which was both composed and processed in uncommon ways (and I think there was some movement blur in there as well) and someone commented "This is either a piece of cr@p from a newbie ... or a wonderful, edgy new style from an experienced photographer."

[arith]

For me it's the worse the shot the more editing I need to do. Others seem to like messing about in photoslop but I hate it....I find using a mouse accurately frustrating. Even cloning out dust on even colour out of focus backgrounds has me wanting to throw the computer againt the wall

There are few shots I've spend more than a few seconds PP'ing...my PC is safer that way

Same here; I hate editing. On a pic of a bridge I spent 12 hours editing and trying to work out what went wrong; untill I realised the bridge moved with people walking on it.

I haven't got photoshop so if it's serious I have to use Gimp, which is only works with 8 bit pics. However I have Helicon Filter to remove fixed noise although I noticed their latest version doesn't have the facility to use a sensor map.

[Colin Southern]

"This is either a piece of cr@p from a newbie ... or a wonderful, edgy new style from an experienced photographer."

Either that or a bit of the former, from the latter! In all seriousness, I look at the work of some people - people who make a lot more from photography than I ever will - and no matter how "liberally" I try to interpret it, I reach the same conclusion; It's not "arty" it's not "edgy" it's just rubbish.

Don't believe me -- here's a CLASSIC example.

[KentDub]

Lol Colin! I'd suggest that we create a rubish album on the site, except all of my photos would probebly end up in it!