Indoor photography equipment adequacy question

[Colin Southern]

I plan to open the aperture to f2.8 and also leave the ISO on auto knowing that the 5D lll will get the best result possible given the conditions present

Hi Anthony,

I'd suggest a healthy dose of caution with that approach. F2.8 MAY be OK for what you're trying to achieve (would personally go for at least F4), but auto ISO will probably only increase the ISO when your shutterspeed has dropped to 1/60th ... and 1/60th may well be too low for what you're intending (you'll be relying heavily on IS and even then it may not freeze subject motion sufficiently).

Personally, I'd manually select an ISO that have me something closer to 1/200th -> 1/320th (if possible).

[Bobobird]

I agree with Colin.

However the 5D3 does have a speed selector in the menus that you can set to fix the low end of the shutter speed from 1/250 to 1/1. The question is how will the ISO go in the conditions. Best is experiment before the actual event to get that range and set the high/low range in the menus and you should be set to go. Remember to set the white balance as lighting will probably be weird and do shoot RAW. You may also want to overexpose (without blowing highlights) to get the histogram more to the right so that you will get more details and will also help with NR. However, the 5D3 has remarkably low noise even at 12800 and that may not be too much of an issue.

Here is an article I ran across the other day that might be of some help.
http://www.ronmartblog.com/2012/03/p...lurry-and.html

[rpcrowe]

Anthony,

Here is another interesting article regarding the use of Auto-ISO and manual exposure with Canon DSLR cameras...

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/020...for-canon-slrs

BTW: If you have a hotshoe flash, I urge you to bring it. You may not be allowed to se the flash in many situations but, there may be times that you can use it.

I always bounce my flash and use a Joe Demb Flash Diffuser Pro (www.dembflashproducts.com) to modify the light. The variable angle bounce card (FlipIt) of the Flash Diffuser Pro makes that unit a very versatile rig. You can tilt the FlipIt forward at a 45 degree angle and shoot in aresa in which there is nothing off which to bounce...

[hytam]

Hi Colin, thanks for your caution and insight. Would going fully manual; by that I mean using a 1/125 shutter speed minimum, f2.8 and perhaps letting the camera decide on ISO rate be a better bet? I'm comfortable using full manual mode settings, just remembering when SLR cameras were more manual than auto. Funny isn't it how the expensive cameras back then used to have auto functions and the cheaper ones were fully manual. Now it's the cheaper point and shots that are fully automatic and the costlier DSLRs that have manual functions.

@Bobo: Thanks for the useful link; I just love how expressive that little boy model is that Ron Martinsen used, definitely bookmarked.

@Richard: A very interesting article about auto ISO with the different setting on the camera. Lots to learn and digest, thanks for the link. I will be bringing my 580EX ll Speedlite but not too sure if I will be allowed to use it or if it will be effective if I'm not allowed to get close enough.

As I wrote above, I think I'll try M settings with auto ISO and experiment with other settings to see how they turn out. I'm in Barcelona, Spain now and plan to go out in the morning with my 5D lll and a Canon EF 24/70mm L USM lens to get some experience using above settings. I plan to go to the Marcat de la Boqueria where there will be low lighting, lots of movement and limited chance to use a flash; I understand many store holders there don't quite like photographers with flash cameras.

One other question in mind is should I set the white balance to auto? If indoors, and the lighting being tungsten, would setting it to tungsten produce better results as apposed to leaving it on auto? I tried this before but can't see the advantage but there must be or the camera makers won't waste resorces putting different settings when auto will do for all, no?

Thanks again and God bless,
Anthony Tam.

PS: I'm using my iPad; didn't carry the laptop, so I might have trouble posting photos to the forum. If I do they will be in its "raw" state. Haven't done this before so I apologizes in advance for any shortcomings that maybe present in the photos.

[Colin Southern]

Hi Colin, thanks for your caution and insight. Would going fully manual; by that I mean using a 1/125 shutter speed minimum, f2.8 and perhaps letting the camera decide on ISO rate be a better bet?

I'd just stick to Av mode -- but manually increase the ISO to give a good starting point with respect to shutterspeed (eg ISO 1600 or ISO 3200); you've got the automation, why not make it work for you?

[hytam]

Thanks for your suggestion Colin, I'll consider your suggestion. What I will do then is not be too fixated with just one set of settings, but will play around with them to see what is best for the situation. New tricks and old dogs again. God bless.

Anthony Tam.

[William W]

I assume you CANNOT use Flash and you have confirmed that as a fact?
I have not seen that you have confirmed this?
Maybe I missed it?

Assuming you cannot use Flash -
A couple of things not yet mentioned and questions for you might find definitive answers, but the two images in the link provided do have clues.

Is it being Recorded (Professional Video) or Televised?
Certainly the first photo in the link you provided. it appears that the judging area has a professional lighting gantry and rig set above it.

• goes to what type of Lighting Banks are used
• goes to using manual White Balance selection
• goes to Shutter Speed choice to manage white balance if three phase power
• goes to Camera Mode ‘M’ to use if even stage lighting

Are all (most) of the Chef’s wearing WHITE uniforms?
goes to Metering Mode and any adjustment thereof


***


In summary if it is ‘even’ Stage / TV Telecast three-phase Lighting then you’d be best to preset the White Balance and be aware that you will get white balance deviation throughout the shots if you shoot with your Tv faster than half the phase rate.

My choice would be to shoot at about 1/125s or a bit faster and secure Subject Movement and live with the one shot in four (approx) being out of Colour Balance.

On the point of metering:
IF you choose to use any AUTOMATIC camera mode you must be aware of all the WHITE you could have in shot – the 5DMkIII is smart – but a lot of white in shot, will still confuse it sometimes.

ANY underexposure at high ISO must be avoided – this point is mentioned specifically as you are considering using AUTO ISO and the Chefs appear to be all dressed in white.

I note that the two images in the link you provide DID use Flash – hence my initial question about flash and my request for a definitive answer.

WW

[Bobobird]

Came across this which maybe of interest and/or useful

Safety Shift

Call it poor mans auto ISO or whatever you want, but when the scene just isn’t working and exposures are all over the place I’ve ahd this save my butt more than once. Canon has, at least since the 40D, had a function they called safety shift; it worked something like this.

When the minimum exposure is reached, but there’s room to adjust either the aperture, shutter speed, or in some cases the ISO, the “free” variable would be adjusted to to get a proper exposure. So what that meant for most people is if you’ve got the camera set to 1/250th ISO 400 in aperture priority with an f/2.8 lens, if you’re under exposing at 1/250th f/4 ISO 400, the camera can open up the lens automatically to f/2.8 to help the exposure.

The 1D mark 3 and later, took this one step further, allowing you to let the camera “float” the ISO up to the highest non-expanded ISO setting. In practice, this works something like auto ISO but you specify the desired ISO not the camera, and it only shifts if there’s a serious exposure error.

The 5D mark 3 brings this to the non 1D bodies, and it’s a hugely welcomed feature in my opinion. On the 5D Mark 3 this is under Custom Function 1.

[hytam]

Hello Bill,

Thanks for your input; I've never been to this competition before and really don't know what to expect. I going in support of my son and his mentor chef and Team Singapore. When they were in Shanghai for the Asian round of the competition, they, 3 chefs in total, no supporters, had only a point and shoot camera to capture their effort. However they lost the camera and all the photos of their win. So my wife and I decided to go in support. We are such a small presence that there might be no more that 5 supporters that I know of. No one in this group is a pro photographer and I just happen to have the resorces to be able to afford a good camera and a set of good lenses.

The photos on the first link to Bocuse d'Or 2011; provided by Andrew1 and my link referring to the changes to the rules of the competition were those taken then, in 2011. However now that Paul Bocuse had suggested the changes, the ball game and stage setups could well be very different from those in the said photos. There surely will be TV coverage(?) and accredited press/team photographers, but I'm not accredited for Team Singapore and as such must assume that I'll not be allowed the use of flash. I might not even get close enough for my flash to be of any effect. My questions have been on the assumption that I will be on the stands some distance from the kitchen booths and therefore there surely will be other colors besides the white of the chefs uniform. Afterall I'll only be carrying a 24/70mm and a 70/200mm lens which might not allow me any closeup shots. I don't have a light meter and don't know how to use one so I will be depending on the camera to set the WB, that's why I asked if it was a good idea or for someone to suggest a WB setting. You suggested that I set the WB, but at what setting?

I hope this makes my situation clearer to you and I thank you for wadeing into my uncertainty for this upcoming event which I know will be a very trying event for me to capture with my limitations.

@ Bobo: Thank you for pointing me to Custom Function 1. The funny thing is I was just reading about it in the camera manual that I brought with me on this trip and I didn't quite understand the difference between 1/2 and 1/3 increments other than the 1/3 increments was a finer adjustment.

Anyway, I don't expect to get any pro shots of any kind but just want to get descent photos of an event that just might be of significance to my son's future in his chosen field of expertise. Thanks to you I just might pull it off. God bless.

Regards,
Anthony Tam.

[William W]

Thanks for your input; I've never been to this competition before and really don't know what to expect. . .There surely will be TV coverage(?) . . . My questions have been on the assumption that I will be on the stands some distance from the kitchen booths and therefore there surely will be other colors besides the white of the chefs uniform. Afterall I'll only be carrying a 24/70mm and a 70/200mm lens which might not allow me any closeup shots. I don't have a light meter and don't know how to use one so I will be depending on the camera to set the WB, that's why I asked if it was a good idea or for someone to suggest a WB setting. You suggested that I set the WB, but at what setting?
I hope this makes my situation clearer to you and I thank you for wadeing into my uncertainty for this upcoming event which I know will be a very trying event for me to capture with my limitations.

Yes I understand the situation better now, thank you.
It occurs to me that the camera is very new to you and therefore an AUTOMATIC Mode might well be the best – and so would keeping it all very simple: that is not a personal comment, but a professional one – it is not a good time to experiment with new ideas ‘at the gig’

IMO you would be best to set Auto White Balance.
If it is being televised, then the lighting will (should) be very even across the areas of interest: which means you could shoot in Manual Mode – but using Av will be quite a sensible idea, especially if you are not shooting tight shots of one Chef and getting the frame with a majority of white.
You do have a light meter: it is in the camera.
I suggest you set the Metering Mode to “EVALUATIVE”
I suggest you select AV Mode and select F/4.
Then you should bump the ISO to a level which will allow you to generally make a SHUTTER SPEED of 1/250s as the slowest.
(These last two points are also what Colin recommended.)
ISO 6400 will be OK if necessary.
I would not use Auto ISO.
I would shoot raw+JPEG(L).
I would take my Flash with me and have it ready to use.

WW

[Andrew1]

Anthony, white balance should be an easy part of your day. Start early. With your tool of choice, Whibal, Expodisc, Spyder Cube, Grey Cards, whatever, walk down to the the stage and take a photo. In editing use it to sync your settings for the rest. If the stage is set up for TV coverage I'm sure you will find it all under the same lighting but if not, take a few spread out along the length.

By showing up half an hour early you can not only get your white balance but have time to scope out the area. You may be able to find out a lot ahead of time. As a suggestion, start a conversation with the TV guys or some other photographer for some hints. Let them know you are an amateur and not competing against them and you may find they are willing to help you. Look for an official looking guy and ask if there are any rules for taking photos. Don't guess - Take some practice shots and make your camera settings ahead of time. Also, question where can you go, or not go. You may find you have more access than you thought. Take some close-ups of competition areas you can get to before the contestants and officials show up. Are your seats in a place where you can get good shots of the team you want? If the place is not full do you have an option of moving to other seats closer to that team? Is there someplace convenient you can move to like a stairway you can get to once in awhile for better shots? Can you walk right down in front of the stage? Familiarization and planning will always help. By the way, if the seating is first come first served then the earlier you show up the better.

[Colin Southern]

Anthony, white balance should be an easy part of your day. Start early. With your tool of choice, Whibal, Expodisc, Spyder Cube, Grey Cards, whatever, walk down to the the stage and take a photo. In editing use it to sync your settings for the rest. If the stage is set up for TV coverage I'm sure you will find it all under the same lighting but if not, take a few spread out along the length.

It's a good reference to have, but as Bill pointed out -- it's likely to vary with the phase of the lighting. Personally, I wouldn't get overly excited about trying to custom white balance at the time -- if the images are being shot RAW it should be easy enough to find a spectrally neutral reference with a bunch of chefs all wearing white

[hytam]

@Bill: Thank you for your understanding. I greatly appreciate the tips you have given and they seem to be the best solution to my situation. I will use them and am sure they will get the job done. Anyway my wife wil be bringing her point and shoot so we will at least get some photos regardless.

@Andrew: I don't really know what the situation will be at the competition or if they will allow early entry to the site. Looks like I'll just have to deal with it when the time comes. Thank you anyway for your suggestions and insight, I will keep them in mind.

@Colin: I have always shot in RAW but with the 5D lll, I have set it to save it in JPG on the second memory (SD) card. RAW files will be stored on the first memory CF card.

I have learnt so much from the gurus on this forum and once again I want to thank Colin, Richard, Bobo, Andrew and Bill for your time and suggestions with my question. I'm now more confidant to achieve my goal at this "gig". Thanks again and God bless.

Regards,
Anthony Tam.