YONGNUO Speedlite YN460, any good?

[Andrew76]

Misleading or not, it is a pertinent rebuttal to the point at hand. I think that of course, you are correct that every device CAN fail, but the argument is that inexpensive flashes are inexpensive for a reason. And I for one am a firm believer in that you get what you pay for. Maybe I'm jaded because I own a retail store, and can see both sides of the coin.

For what it's worth, I own four Canon flashes, none of which have EVER failed on me, all of which fire every time I ask them to, don't burn through batteries (upwards of 200 flashes per unit at full power - depending on batteries, of course), and two of them were purchased second hand.

I am sold.

[Inkanyezi]

So, anecdotally, we know that these units can fail and that some of them will, but we don't know anything about their failure rate. However, they all come with a warranty, so this type of occurrences, when they happen, will mostly be remedied. After working as a technician in a very reputable German company that is proud of its quality, I also know that everything is not up to reputation... German Quality is some kind of word, but just words.

So, we know that Canon also has such reputation, even if in that case it's not "German Quality", but Japanese. So of course all Canon cameras, particularly the more expensive ones, and all their lenses, must set perfect focus directly from start, as they are "factory tested". Now if that aint moot, what is? There were rumours after people found out that Nikon cameras had back focus and front focus issues, that Canon should be better in that regard, only because the problem was recognized by technicians at Nikon. But were they? Does anyone have the stats? Oh, I know, Roger Cicala tried the most prestigious of the Canon models, and alas, they do have focusing issues, and severely so.

And Canon is into the third generation of TTL flashes, so older units are not compatible with newer cameras, and the modes are different in compacts. But with luck, your camera and the flash you get are of the same generation. You won't be equally lucky with bodies and lenses. Newer lenses and newer camera bodies have new systems for setting focus, incompatible with older bodies and older lenses. So a new lens and old camera won't be sure to work well together and vice versa. But Canon will not tell you.

So, until reliable statistics will tell me that the failure rate for no-name electronic flash is unreasonably high, I'll stick with the conclusion that they are generally better bang for the buck. If you feel more comfortable by buying a brand product and believe that it is better in a few ways, by all means, buy it if you need it and can afford it. If it fails, it also comes with a warranty, just as you can have your lens and body tuned together for focusing if you send it in. It surely is harder to point out the culprit when third party hardware is at play, so don't expect the same service with another brand of lens for your camera, or another brand of flash. But still, the thing does come with a warranty. As long as it does not fry your camera, you're mostly OK. Whether third party or original brand. But somehow, I have a doubt that they're more meticulous about flash gear than lenses.

[Colin Southern]

So, anecdotally, we know that these units can fail and that some of them will, but we don't know anything about their failure rate. However, they all come with a warranty, so this type of occurrences, when they happen, will mostly be remedied. After working as a technician in a very reputable German company that is proud of its quality, I also know that everything is not up to reputation... German Quality is some kind of word, but just words.

So, we know that Canon also has such reputation, even if in that case it's not "German Quality", but Japanese. So of course all Canon cameras, particularly the more expensive ones, and all their lenses, must set perfect focus directly from start, as they are "factory tested". Now if that aint moot, what is? There were rumours after people found out that Nikon cameras had back focus and front focus issues, that Canon should be better in that regard, only because the problem was recognized by technicians at Nikon. But were they? Does anyone have the stats? Oh, I know, Roger Cicala tried the most prestigious of the Canon models, and alas, they do have focusing issues, and severely so.

And Canon is into the third generation of TTL flashes, so older units are not compatible with newer cameras, and the modes are different in compacts. But with luck, your camera and the flash you get are of the same generation. You won't be equally lucky with bodies and lenses. Newer lenses and newer camera bodies have new systems for setting focus, incompatible with older bodies and older lenses. So a new lens and old camera won't be sure to work well together and vice versa. But Canon will not tell you.

So, until reliable statistics will tell me that the failure rate for no-name electronic flash is unreasonably high, I'll stick with the conclusion that they are generally better bang for the buck. If you feel more comfortable by buying a brand product and believe that it is better in a few ways, by all means, buy it if you need it and can afford it. If it fails, it also comes with a warranty, just as you can have your lens and body tuned together for focusing if you send it in. It surely is harder to point out the culprit when third party hardware is at play, so don't expect the same service with another brand of lens for your camera, or another brand of flash. But still, the thing does come with a warranty. As long as it does not fry your camera, you're mostly OK. Whether third party or original brand. But somehow, I have a doubt that they're more meticulous about flash gear than lenses.

Urban,

With any significant product - a computer system - or a car - or a camera we always seem have 2 relatively distinct groups of people; for the sake of the discussion I'll call them "the vast majority" and "die hards".

The vast majority embrace new technology - enjoying the benefits that it brings in terms of ease of use and better results, whilst appreciating that "nothing lasts for ever" and accepting that incompatibilities and obsolescence is just a fact of life. In the case of camera systems they buy a modern camera - attach a modern lens to it - and attach a modern flash to it ... and they all work together as they're supposed to.

The die hards on the other hand are the ones that "still prefer" to use floppy disks on a computer because they find them more reliable than hard drives - they buy a new Toyota car, but spend a year retro-fitting an engine from a Morris 1000 minor because they don't like these new computer-controlled engine management systems - and when it comes to cameras they moan about some lens that they bought in the same era as box brownies not being compatible with a camera they bought last week - and they moan about things like ETTL not giving perfect results - and they moan about digital "not being like film". In fact, they moan about a lot of things.

If folks want to make their lives difficult by "investing" in "budget quality" products that take us back to the days of horse-drawn buggies then that's their right of course ... but I know from experience (which is generally what folks want to tap into here) that further down the line, the initial excitement of the low-cost purchase is usually replaced by a frustration at what that low-cost purchase is now costing them in terms of either not getting the same results as the guy next to them or having to work a lot harder than the guy next to you to get the same results. Probably a good example is a $125 radio control helicopter that I bought a few months ago -- I now like to think of it as the "Yongnuo" of helicopters ... cheap, but severely lacking in features and capability. Two months further down the track I now have a $749 RC helicopter that eats it for breakfast. Sure, the $125 one was fun for a couple of days but if I'd been able to tap into some expertise before hand I would never have bought it ... so ultimately it was just a waste of money.

You get what you pay for.

[Colin Southern]

Colin, what is misleading about your post is the implication that you would be unable to find a similar list of quotes about Canon or Nikon flashes. Every electronic device can fail, and if you produce enough of them, some will.

Hi Tom,

I'm not trying to mislead anyone ... Urban stated that he "strangely hadn't heard of anyone swearing at off-brand flashes" -- my quotes were simply a "demonstration" that there are PLENTY of folks out there who have had less than ideal experiences with them. Can quality brand models fail too ... yes of course they can; all I can say though is that - having seen the "quality" that goes onto many rip-off products - is that you do in fact get what you pay for. Usually they are cheap for a reason; unfortunately though, folks often don't discover that reason until after they've handed over their hard-earned cash.

End of the day, it's just my opinion ... folks can give that as much or as little weight as they deem fit

[jcuknz]

Urban,

The die hards on the other hand are the ones that "still prefer" to use floppy disks on a computer because they find them more reliable than hard drives - they buy a new Toyota car, but spend a year retro-fitting an engine from a Morris 1000 minor because they don't like these new computer-controlled engine management systems - .......You get what you pay for.

My YNs are far in advance and convienience than any of the other half a dozen flash units I own ... but since I use flash very infrequently it would be silly to outlay as much or more than my camera for it, really it was probably silly to spend on the YNs. but I wanted experience with a modern unit. I even have the bits of the flash I bought in 1954 somewhere , Been meaning to get it out and see if it will work ... probably will, its a Mecablitz, if I can organise a 4volt supply

Colin's stance is reasonable since the OP suggested I think he wasn't flush like the rest of us but there are always these tales of woe about cheap products ... there is the saying that "the discount store keeps the poor poor" but we all spend what we feel we can afford on what we buy. I guess I kept myself 'poor' by buying the cheapest discount store microwave and each rusted out in a year ... finally I bought the 'next cheapest' one from them and it is 18 months old and narry a sign of rust .. some of that maybe I have learnt to wipe condensation off it occasionally and other practices.

[rpcrowe]

Jcuknz... You wrote...

"My YNs are far in advance and convienience than any of the other half a dozen flash units I own ... but since I use flash very infrequently it would be silly to outlay as much or more than my camera for it, really it was probably silly to spend on the YNs."

I, on the other hand, use flash extremely frequently. I would guess that virtually all my indoor shots are with flash and a goodly number of my outdoor shots also have flash fill.

Although I am very capable of using a manual flash unit; I think that if I were using less capable flash units (My basic units are a 550EX and a 430EX) I would also shoot with flash less frequently.

I wonder if you bought "up" to begin with, whether you would have needed the half dozen flash units you presently own. The 550EX and 430EX do all that I need and all that I will need in the forseeable future.

I am perfectly happy with these two units and don't expect to upgrade them in the forseeable future. After all, the 550EX was the flagsship of the Canon Speedlite line until a few years ago when the 580EX was introduced. However, despite some opinions to the contrary, a piece of photo equipment doesn't automatically stop working the moment it's replacement comes off the assembly line.

OTOH, if I were still shooting for pay, I would be using the biggest and the best flash out there.

[allenlennon]

I love how i get all views on this. But i am leading towards the cheaper option for a few reasons.

1) Budget reasons
2) im not doing photography as a job, if i were i would get the better flashes for the job.
3) Im doing photography as a hobby.
4) just to muck around and learn somewhat with.

So my thinking is i can make do with the "off brand" flashes. I have been using my cheap "CY" flash, and my Centon flash, and discovered i can have either full power or 1/16th on the centon. The CY one got no control over. It was using these to with my latest photos in my tgreads "me and myslelf" and "just me this time..." And wasnt all to bad in my books.
Below is my flashes i got:


The centon flash is annoying when wanting to use with umbrella, i need 2 stands just for that(another reason why i want another flash or 2). The CY one cost me $5-8, and the centon one cost me $100, but that also came with a canon film camera, bracket for the flash, and a nice hard camera case and fuel to get it.

And yes, in the photo the centon one is attached to a stand with the transmitter on the hotshoe. If/when i get these new flashes they will be put away after each use. These two flashes lately been staying on the stands.

[Andrew1]

As with any tool it's up to the user to familiarize themselves with the effective use of that tool. Technology in today's electronic marketplace however makes it more of a burden for you to determine what is adequate, what is great and what is crap. Things change so fast we see performance increase and prices drop on an almost weekly basis.

Yongnuo has been around for quite a while in electronic terms and does have a rather good name for grey market flashes. As with GM/Chrysler/Craftsman/Nikon/Canon the user is responsible to work within the claimed performance characteristics of that product. Have you ever heard of a vehicle getting the claimed gas mileage?

Yongnuo flashes have been tested and shown to be overrated in power. Oh well, so have Nikon and Canon. In any case it's up to the user to learn and work within the capabilities of their tools. Never have I seen results that indicated Yongnuo flashes were inconsistent and would welcome examples from a competent photographer. We've used them in studio arrangements and I would qualify them equal to the Nikon SB28's we use in manual staging.

Save your pennies and go with the knock-offs if manual flash will suffice but do your homework and realize what you are getting into as far as performance and compatibility issues.

[Colin Southern]

Never have I seen results that indicated Yongnuo flashes were inconsistent

From around the web ...

http://www.amazon.com/Yongnuo-YN-560.../dp/B004GZLFHM

inconsistent recycles both in terms of power and timing (variance in output is more than I'd hope, and even when the power is turned down to 1/64th or 1/128th high speed continuous is hit and miss) but this isn't an issue when not shooting high frame rate or when half second intervals or longer are employed

http://www.ephotozine.com/forums/topic/yongnuo-560---too-good-to-be-true---98105/p-2

If you can, give it a try. It could be down to one of the issues with the YN flashes, inconsistent output.

http://speedlights.net/2010/07/14/yongnuo-yn-560-speedlite-review/

My only criticism is they occasionally have inconsistent power output when used at full power

http://my.twonky.com/search?mt=1&q=yn-560

YN-560 issues - infrequent flash output, inconsistent output.

... just say'in

[tclune]

Misleading or not, it is a pertinent rebuttal to the point at hand. I think that of course, you are correct that every device CAN fail, but the argument is that inexpensive flashes are inexpensive for a reason. And I for one am a firm believer in that you get what you pay for.

I don't deny that. The things that you get that you pay on more expensive flashes for have been well-indicated by people on this thread. They include TTL capability; high-speed synch strobing; off-camera communications support; and greater maximum power output. There is also a premium charged for the camera brand, which is enforced by the FUD associated with keeping a closed system instead of publishing your communications spec -- a premium that I personally find offensive in camera equipment, although YMMV. BTW, the Yungnou flashes tilt and swivel, so that is not part of this discussion, although Richard was right to include it in his list of features that matter on flash units. But the main thing is that people have genuinely different sets of requirements that make the question of which flash is appropriate for them a real one. In my case, my camera does not support Nikon's off-camera commander mode nor does it support HSS. Paying the noticeable premium for those features makes very little sense to me, and the quality that is available from some third-party flash manufacturers for reliable units with the features that I do care about is impressive and available at a price point that is substantially lower than the more feature-laden units that are otherwiise comparable from the camera manufacturers.

[Andrew1]

Peoples comments in forum threads are not qualified examples I would base a $500 decision on. I'll keep looking for the viable test results though. The links provided above do include a very good review from http://speedlights.net/2010/07/14/yo...edlite-review/ A good read for anyone considering the very well rated 560. The review does imply the failure rate is higher than the Cadillacs but that is to be expected. For my needs, 5 Yongnuo's with triggers or one SB910 is an easy decision.

[jcuknz]

The 468 [canon] that I bought is supposed to TTL with my Canon DSLR but really it was a silly auction site buy, the price was low and I couldn't resist it, and since I never use the DSLR these days I cannot tell if the claim is true Another example of keeping myself poor

[allenlennon]

Hey all I made up my min to get yn-460. 3 for $130aus. I read alot of reviews and found majority likes them and for my needs and budget it will do. Can't wait to get them. I may do a review.

[inkista]

Congrats and happy new gear! Have fun with 'em! I love my YN-560 to bits. Never gave me any trouble, and has been a reliable workhorse in my bag for over a year. I also love that it does stuff my Canon 430EX and 580EX can't do (recycle beep, PC sync port, dumb optical slave modes)--love using it with my Powershot S90. If you have a Canon Powershot, the YN S1 slave mode will work if the Powershot has an M mode, the S2 slave works for auto modes (yes, there's a pre-flash in them there P&S flashes).

[AB26]

Allen, I would suggest you Google it and see the reviews on it. There are reviews on the Yongnuo speedlights.

http://www.thephoblographer.com/2012...non-and-nikon/

Have a look at this and you will believe a Canon flash is made by YONGNUO only with a brand name on it.

[allenlennon]

Andre, thank you, I was looking at the 560 but the price was too much for now. So for now sticking to the 460. Later on down the track I might invest in them.

[inkista]

BTW, thought I should mention there are THREE versions of YN-560 out there, now.

YN-560: the original. Uses a single row of indicator LEDs for power/zoom/partial stops, no LCD panel on the back. In the US on Amazon, I've seen the price fluctuate between $45 to $90. Additional features over the YN-460 II would be slightly higher power and faster recycle, 1/128 power setting, PC sync port, battery pack port, and zoom capability.

YN-560 II: Replaced the LEDs with an proper LCD screen so you can see all the settings at once and MULTI (stroboscopic) mode. Usually around US$80.

YN-560 III: (not yet released, but announced). They added an internal RF-602/603-compatible receiver (kind of a neat trick, since those two triggers are incompatible). Guesstimates on price are "under US$100).

The TTL YN darlings would be the YN-565EX and the YN-568EX. They're kinda/sorta like 430EXs: wireless TTL slave capability, menu commandable, TTL, 2nd curtain. But with the addition of sync ports, recycle beep, "dumb" optical slave modes, and Nikon CLS slave capability. Main differentiations between the two are that the 568EX has no battery pack port, does 360-degree swivel (vs. 270), has a 2.5mm sync port (not PC), and HSS capability. They go for around US$150 and US$190 on eBay. And there's an upcoming YN-500EX, which is apparently a YN-568EX with backlit buttons and a PC sync port instead of the 2.5mm port. YN model proliferation abounds.

Surprisingly for Yongnuo, the YN-568EXs have had no mass reports of early deaths [sounds like they've finally found a decent capacitor supplier]. But you might want a copy that was manufactured after November of 2012 (there are date stickers on the body of the flash, underneath the head that mark the month and year of manufacture). The fix was for an overexposure problem in TTL at 1/250s with the 40D/50D/60D/7D and complete incompatibility on the hotshoe with the 5D (MkI), 20D, and 30D. Ah, the joys of reverse engineering and units where firmware updating is not a possibility.

Right now the sweet spot for those who want RF TTL but can't afford PocketWizards or the Canon RT units seems to be the YN-568EXs with the Yongnuo YN-622c triggers, if you have a post-2007 Canon camera that has the flash control menu on it, since remote commanding of power level is done through the menu control. This combo gives you RF TTL, 2nd curtain, "supersync" (YN's version of hypersync), remote commanding of flash power levels, and HSS. Without the control menu, you have 2nd curtain, HSS, and TTL, but no remote commanding (i.e., whatever you can do with the flash on the hotshoe, that's what you can do with the 622c). The 622c triggers cost about $90/pr. There's a huge thread on POTN about these, and one guy got so tired of coaching folks through the triggers, he wrote his own manual for them.

The whole menu control thing, btw, is why the YN-622N triggers for Nikon are likely to boast a bit less capability, just as with the Phottix Odins and Pixel Kings.

And one more word of caution. There's a web dealer called yongnuostore.com. They're just another retailer, and have no affiliation with Yongnuo. The only official YN store is the one on eBay: hkyongnuophotoequipment. The irony of a company that reverse engineers its stuff having to defend its reputation from imitators is not lost upon many of us.

[jcuknz]

Richard ...I bought a number of flash units at auction and together they cost me much less than even what my first YN did. I had the idea of using them with the flash triggers which I had bought over the years. If I had spent up on a 'good' flash I still wouldn't use it more becuase of the hassle of setting it up and the camera when often my on-board flash is suitable for my needs. I don't use Canikon so getting a HSS or Nikon equivalent flash is an item I don't need.

Colin has his point of view and after a few months here one respects it but that doesn't mean one has to be particularly influenced by it. For somebody on a limited budget the YN are great if they are not going to be used very much, they may be great and stand up to high use but because I don't work that way I cannot say yay or nay

[elfbob]

personally I think its the truck driver not the truck that's the decisive factor; my muse is macro photography & while I would have liked to squirrel away $$ to eventually buy a Canon flash for my Canon EOS 50D I had to weigh the here & now vs. the maybe 1 day; I bought a Yongnuo YN-560II for its ability to do what I needed at a very reasonable price; it is a manual strobe so the driver needs to know their camera & learn how to use the flash; I set manual technique 95% of the time so a manual strobe is just another tool; since my pockets are shallow I can use this flash for the 50D's 6fps continuous mode for capturing insects in flight; a strobe forgives a non stabilized lens by adding light & increasing shutter speed, the strobe also gives increased dof by allowing the lens to be stopped down reasonably; I suppose it comes down to whether or not you can deal with a non TTL strobe application. here's a few examples of what the strobe will do;