Mini Comp entries

[Shadowman]

We should be encouraging more people to vote in the comps. As far as the creativity of the entrants, you as the voter are the judges and can provide guidelines or tips as to what you look for in a submission, that would be a more productive thread on this subject.

[Designer]

We should be encouraging more people to vote in the comps. As far as the creativity of the entrants, you as the voter are the judges and can provide guidelines or tips as to what you look for in a submission, that would be a more productive thread on this subject.

Finally! One person appears to have actually read and understood my post! I was beginning to think that I had posted gibberish.

To the people who only thought that they had read my post, I would simply ask that they read it again. Thank you.

[Dukatum]

Hi Jim,

I think it's great that you are competitive. I believe this is a personality trait that encourages people to become the best they can, and what more can you ask of someone then to simply do the best of your abilities.

I will say that the first thing I did when joining this forum very recently, was to post a picture in a mini competition. Immediately by the name, I felt it wasn't a competition to be serious enough that only the pro's post, but wasn't a competition based on a Buzz Lightyear camera users. I received less votes then I had hoped and this led me to finding out why, which Dave has provided some great feedback for me that I am learning from.


Until this week, I haven't really touched post-processing, what I had done before did more damage then improving, but ironically a simple thing of "straighting the picture" is almost the last thing a newbie thinks about, because we are so excited by changing the colours.

At the end of the day, the mini competitions come in thick and fast, it allows the new and the old-wise photographers among us to have a little flutter on there. There is nothing to win. There are plenty of other photo competitions out there, I've entered one at FroKnowsPhoto this month, and you can see some shockers, and some really good ones in there, and you win stuff.

I guess it's horses for courses. If you want the top end photos to compete against, you should be looking at the top end competitions. But CiC is a learning forum, and it's been a great experience for me so far, and probably lots of other newbies. Also keep in mind that some people don't like to touch the photo at all with software editing.

[davidedric]

It is a learning forum. A while ago, I posted an image in a mini comp which didn't get many votes. So I reposted in Nature and Architecture and asked what folks thought. I got some very helpful comments suggesting why my image wasn't quite so good. All very helpful.

[Mito]

We should be encouraging more people to vote in the comps. As far as the creativity of the entrants, you as the voter are the judges and can provide guidelines or tips as to what you look for in a submission, that would be a more productive thread on this subject.

Sorry, can't agree. If you want assesment and tips then post in the relevant section. A mini comp. is like having a flutter. You enter to see if you can win. If you don't then you have the opportunity for some self reflection looking at the other contestants entries to see what went wrong, then post for advice.
And to save you time looking, I have entered mini comps a couple of times and have only a couple of photos on my gallery. No time at the moment.

[Designer]

It is a learning forum. A while ago, I posted an image in a mini comp which didn't get many votes. So I reposted in Nature and Architecture and asked what folks thought. I got some very helpful comments suggesting why my image wasn't quite so good. All very helpful.

O.K., Dave, how did that make you feel? Considering that you had to re-post the same photo in another thread in order to receive a critique, did you think the competition post was essentially a waste of time? After the results were in, did you learn anything from the mini comp post? (other than the fact that you didn't win)

[Geoff F]

There is much in Jim's remarks that I do agree with; often I look at a competition entry and think 'I would have voted for that one except for . . .'

And it is true that a horizon which isn't straight, for example, will alter the way I vote.

However, personal taste will vary between different people. For example, I'm not keen on over processed HDR, very slow shutter speeds of running water or surf, and scenes which are 'artificially forced into a strict rule of thirds'.

So I don't do any of those myself; but photographs like those get a good number of votes. There isn't a simple right or wrong way with artistic creation.

Some time ago, we did discuss having something along the lines of a critique section and we have had various threads along similar lines.

This one is an example of some helpful advice concerning how to seek help. HELP THREAD: Guide to posting images for comment

I have noticed some people who were unsure about a particular image will post it in another forum and ask for criticism before posting it into a competition.

Some people who get a low number of votes do ask for help/advice in another forum after the competition finishes. But that number is less than I would expect.

But, I don't think there will ever be a 'one size fits all' answer to this dilemma.

[davidedric]

I was quite happy, Jim. (Sorry, haven't mastered quotes on this tablet) I enjoy the anticipation of the odd flutter, as well as more in depth C&C. I'm not ultra competitive, but I would still like to place first in one of the damn things, second is best so far.

Still, if I'm voting I do often think "if only". I feel I would like to add a one line comment, not to be visible till after the comp had closed, for feedback to the poster. I suppose I could pm the poster, but that seems a bit over the top for a fun and ephemeral competition.

As it is, I think the concept works pretty well. As a newbie I found it less intimidating to enter a mini comp "just to see" than to post for C&C.

[Designer]

I was quite happy, Jim. (Sorry, haven't mastered quotes on this tablet) I enjoy the anticipation of the odd flutter, as well as more in depth C&C. I'm not ultra competitive, but I would still like to place first in one of the damn things, second is best so far.

Still, if I'm voting I do often think "if only". I feel I would like to add a one line comment, not to be visible till after the comp had closed, for feedback to the poster. I suppose I could pm the poster, but that seems a bit over the top for a fun and ephemeral competition.

As it is, I think the concept works pretty well. As a newbie I found it less intimidating to enter a mini comp "just to see" than to post for C&C.

Dave; the "if only" thoughts that cross my mind could be valuable to the poster, but since the poster has entered his photograph into a competition (mini or otherwise) that is not the time nor place for a critique. I can only assume that the poster thinks he needs no critique at all, since he has put his "best work" out for judging.

Seeing fairly ordinary work put out for a competition makes me wonder what else the photographer thinks is extraordinary.

Having written that, I will further speculate that posters of not-so-good photography cannot possibly vote intelligently in the next competition. If they are under the delusion that their "best work" is on par with exceptional work, then on what basis do they make sufficient judgement with which to vote?

As usual, I will reiterate that my main impetus for writing is to improve the level of competition in the minis, nothing more.

Furthermore, I already know that I will not be understood, and will continue to be vilified in the next round of comments.

[Didace]

Dave; the "if only" thoughts that cross my mind could be valuable to the poster, but since the poster has entered his photograph into a competition (mini or otherwise) that is not the time nor place for a critique. I can only assume that the poster thinks he needs no critique at all, since he has put his "best work" out for judging.

Seeing fairly ordinary work put out for a competition makes me wonder what else the photographer thinks is extraordinary.

Having written that, I will further speculate that posters of not-so-good photography cannot possibly vote intelligently in the next competition. If they are under the delusion that their "best work" is on par with exceptional work, then on what basis do they make sufficient judgement with which to vote?

As usual, I will reiterate that my main impetus for writing is to improve the level of competition in the minis, nothing more.

Furthermore, I already know that I will not be understood, and will continue to be vilified in the next round of comments.

Why do you think an entrant "thinks he needs no critique at all"? Maybe he's just looking to see how his picture stacks up in one of these.

Why do you think that in order to "vote intelligently" someone needs to be able to produce "extraordinary" photos? I'm quite capable of looking at a painting and deciding that I like it and there's no chance I could produce anything that anyone -- even my mom -- would think was good.

I understand you want to "improve" the minis. It just seems you have different thoughts on how they should be used. This is not vilifying you -- we just disagree, and that's OK.

The minis work for me as I get everything I expect out of them. I haven't entered; I have no desire to. But I vote in as many as I can. I choose to vote only once for the one I feel is the best. Sometimes this is easy as one is clearly the best. But most of the time it is hard as either there are several that are very good or none that are what I would consider "good". But in each case going through and picking only one helps me see things that I like/dislike that will help my own image making -- subject, composition, exposure, processing, etc.

Again, it's OK to disagree. But maybe what you're looking for just isn't here.

[pnodrog]

Why do you think an entrant "thinks he needs no critique at all"? Maybe he's just looking to see how his picture stacks up in one of these.

Why do you think that in order to "vote intelligently" someone needs to be able to produce "extraordinary" photos? I'm quite capable of looking at a painting and deciding that I like it and there's no chance I could produce anything that anyone -- even my mom -- would think was good.

I understand you want to "improve" the minis. It just seems you have different thoughts on how they should be used. This is not vilifying you -- we just disagree, and that's OK.

The minis work for me as I get everything I expect out of them. I haven't entered; I have no desire to. But I vote in as many as I can. I choose to vote only once for the one I feel is the best. Sometimes this is easy as one is clearly the best. But most of the time it is hard as either there are several that are very good or none that are what I would consider "good". But in each case going through and picking only one helps me see things that I like/dislike that will help my own image making -- subject, composition, exposure, processing, etc.

Again, it's OK to disagree. But maybe what you're looking for just isn't here.

There is a simple solution. After voting has finished voters if they wish return to the mini comp and post comments on the reasons they voted a particular way and explain what the short coming was of any photo they considered but decided not to vote for. Constructive feedback after the competition may be very helpful for the contestants.

[Andrew76]

There is a simple solution. After voting has finished voters if they wish return to the mini comp and post comments on the reasons they voted a particular way and explain what the short coming was of any photo they were considered but decided not to vote for. Constructive feedback after the competition may be very helpful for the contestants.

Interestingly, I have been thinking this all along - and although I haven't been a member here as long as some, I have seen the crazy growth in membership this forum has gone through since I've been here, and 'in the old days' people actually used to comment after the voting was finished. Not on every competition, but on most! Even if it was a simple "Congratulations Andrew", "Great shot Andrew", "I think you should sell that photo for $4.3 million, Andrew", but there was always something. Then, if you can imagine, the winner would usually come back, and say something to the effect of "Thanks Paul", or "Thanks very much Jim, I'm glad you voted!"

Now, the mini competitions go by so quickly, I admit I don't even take time to vote any longer, and I will generalize here so please don't persecute me, but I've noticed that the people who enter, are generally not the 'regular' members who post in other threads to receive feedback. Generally. It's just too busy.

So Jim, although I agree with quite a bit of what you're saying, I think you're on a sinking ship, with no hope of changing it. Like I said earlier, I used to enjoy the mini comps quite a bit, I no longer do, and so I don't participate - the feedback I get on my images from the other, more regular members that I get in the other forums is all I need.

I'm not saying I wish it weren't different, but it isn't.

[Brownbear]

As an aspiring, hopefully one day professional photographer, and as someone who has likely entered many substandard photos in both the mini comps and monthly competitions on this forum. I'd like to share my experience for the benefit of newbies by advising that I have learned so much about photography since I joined Cambridge. Not being afraid to enter the mini comps has helped me learn how much I still have left to learn about photography...

The high calibre of the photography on this forum has inspired me to learn more and to improve my photography skills. Entering the mini comps has helped me learn by allowing me to see how my photos compare to others photos, and to see as time goes on if my photography is improving, or not. Participating in and viewing the photos in the mini comps has helped me to learn by seeing what a truly great photo looks like. (ie; composition, colours, clarity, sharp focus, depth of field, subject matter, tone, etc...)

Before joining this forum I did not know what white balance was, or for that matter anything about photography or editing photos.

If I edited my photos at all, it took the form of sliding the saturation sliders in Picasa way over to the right side to make them very colorful, which of course made them very blue because the white balance was off in all of my photos. I thought that all my photos were beautiful and I'm glad that no one had the courage to tell me how bad some of them truly were because if they had, it is unlikely that I would have continued to try and improve my photography.

It was about 4 years ago, that I discovered an unbridled passion for photography... Here are a few of my first photos that I was exceptionally proud of.

My first whale shot which I sent to a photographer friend thinking he would publish it... He kindly suggested that I might try straightening the horizon and cropping it. At that time I hadn't a clue how to go about doing that.



A whale shot I took about a year ago, after buying my first dslr and reading my camera manual for the first time.




Following are a couple of my first pelican shots from about 4 years ago. (These are the best shots, I deleted the really bad ones ) I was extremely proud of these shots and many of my friends told me they were indeed fabulous, no doubt because they did not wish to squash my enthusiasm for photography. So of course I sent these pelican shots, and several more in application to a stock photo agency, all of which were rejected for being out of focus, poor composition, chromatic aberration (who knew what they meant by that?), poor lighting, etc, etc, etc..


I asked another photographer friend for his opinion on my pelican photos and he kindly told me that all my pelicans looked very blue to which I replied, "But that is how they came out of my camera!" I truly was of the opinion that my pelicans should be blue because that is the way they came out of my camera, and I thought that is how they must of looked on the day I photographed them because of light conditions.







A pelican shot from last year




And just for fun another lovely example of my photography 4 years ago.




When I discovered the Cambridge forum the first thing I did was enter this photo in a monthly competition with this shot..



And I was thoroughly miffed that it did not win! And since then I've graced the mini comps with many blurry pelican shots because I did not know they were blurry, but I do know now.

Here are some examples of some photos I took late this fall and winter that I hope demonstrate the improvement in my photography.












Most everything I have learned about photography is from joining Cambridge. I started by entering the competitions, likely because I have a competitive spirit. Only after the fact, and some constructive criticism from fellow members on my photos, did it occur to me that I still have a lot to learn about photography and that learning to edit my photos might be a good idea. It is only since then that I began studying the tutorials on this forum, reading books on photography, and my camera manual. My camera manual is likely the only how-to manual I have ever read, and today I study it every chance I get.


After all that, I realize that I still have a lot to learn. The photography on Cambridge and the mini comps are inspiring and yes, I aim to keep learning and improving, and I yes, I hope to win a mini-comp one day!

[Designer]

Why do you think an entrant "thinks he needs no critique at all"?

Oh, I dunno, perhaps it is because he has entered his photo in a contest?

Why do you think that in order to "vote intelligently" someone needs to be able to produce "extraordinary" photos?

You have misunderstood me. (imagine that!)

I have never implied that in order to be educated in judging art, one has to be an excellent photographer. That leap of intuition did not originate with me.

[Designer]

There is a simple solution. After voting has finished voters if they wish return to the mini comp and post comments on the reasons they voted a particular way and explain what the short coming was of any photo they considered but decided not to vote for. Constructive feedback after the competition may be very helpful for the contestants.

That is a most excellent idea! Thank you!

[Designer]

So Jim, although I agree with quite a bit of what you're saying, I think you're on a sinking ship, with no hope of changing it.

I'm usually on the losing side of every battle, so I'm quite used to it.

Now the question of whether anybody is actually open to criticism on the photos is another matter. How would we know, unless specifically invited? Where and when would such an invitation be posted? Along with the contest photograph?

[Designer]

ChristinaS; Yes, I definitely see the improvement in your photography. I see also that you did not "get good" simply by entering the mini comps.

[Brownbear]

Thank you, Jim.

I guess, I thought I made a good example of an overly enthusiastic person who discovered a passion for photography, who did not know much about the subject, or even notice that her photos were crooked, blue and blurry, etc but nevertheless entered them in a contest. If I had known better, I may not have been inspired to learn.

[orlcam88]

Originally Posted by pnodrog
There is a simple solution. After voting has finished voters if they wish return to the mini comp and post comments on the reasons they voted a particular way and explain what the short coming was of any photo they considered but decided not to vote for. Constructive feedback after the competition may be very helpful for the contestants.

I don't think that's a good idea as it may scare people from joining them. If someone starts to fear a negative feedback (not necessarily bad) every time they enter, they may never enter them again. Feedback to someone in an open environment just isn't comfortable to someone who didn't ask for it. Also, I wouldn't want an open discussion if one did that to me when I didn't ask for it. If I wanted an opinion then I'll put it in an open forum.
I'm not trying to say don't help someone, I just don't think it's polite to do so openly without being invited. I have from time to time sent a private message on a photo to explain what could be done to get more votes. Sometimes I've done it when it's still time to change it. I usually open up with positive feedback on what I liked about it and then explain what can be done to improve it. I'll even show them a version of what I mean with instructions. I haven't been told to jump off a cliff so far and they've been glad I helped. I don't do it often cause I know some day someone will tell me to jump! But also, it depends on my time.

[pnodrog]

I don't think that's a good idea as it may scare people from joining them. If someone starts to fear a negative feedback (not necessarily bad) every time they enter, they may never enter them again. Feedback to someone in an open environment just isn't comfortable to someone who didn't ask for it. Also, I wouldn't take kindly if one did that to me when I didn't ask for it. If I wanted an opinion then I'll put it in an open forum.
I'm not trying to say don't help someone, I just don't think it's polite to do so openly without being invited. I have from time to time sent a private message on a photo to explain what could be done to get more votes. Sometimes I've done it when it's still time to change it. I usually open up with positive feedback on what I liked about it and then explain what can be done to improve it. I'll even show them a version of what I mean with instructions. I haven't been told to jump off a cliff so far and they've been glad I helped. I don't do it often cause I know some day someone will tell me to jump! But also, it depends on my time.

May be they could add to the entry no feedback if they did not want any. When I first joint a camera club it took a bit of courage to take the plunge and enter a competition. I don't know whether it was shyness or modesty(both long since gone) but having entered I knew people would look at my images and decide what they thought. Even then I would rather have feedback positive or negative in preference to just stony silence. We can tell by the number of posts they have made as to how gentle or explanatory to be. (not that we should ever be anything other than gentle)