Help in choosing the right DSLR camera.

[cavanfella]

I’m a complete newbie to the world of digital photography. I purchased a Canon 350d a couple of years ago but I've only been” paddling around in the shallow end”, dabbling so to speak without any real understanding of what I’m doing or how I’m achieving results, but now that children have arrived, I feel the time has come, to capture and record precious moments that would otherwise be lost forever. I enjoy outdoor/portrait/landscape photography and have signed up for a photography course starting in next couple of weeks to gain a better understanding of what I am doing. I have spoken to camera stores here and all have suggested that I upgrade my camera body but have received mixed suggestions as to what I should upgrade to.

As I currently have two Sigma lenses ( 18 – 50mm and 55 – 200mm) most stores have advised me to stay with the Canon brand as these lenses cannot be mounted on the only other suggested Nikon brand.

I have read both on this forum and over the internet as a whole, the camera body is not as an important a decision as the lens and many have been spend the extra money on high quality lenses. That being said, I still have to ask the question

Going forward and not wishing to upgrade my camera body again in the near future should I consider a full frame or crop image sensor. Stores here have advised me against a full frame sensor, (even though they are more expensive) . Your advice on this topic would be greatly appreciated.

Suggestions made included the 1100d as an entry model along with the Nikon d3100. I have also been shown the 600d but as I explained to the representatives about not having to upgrade in the near future the two models most commonly suggested were the 650d and 7d.

Some friends have suggested the 7d, primarily because they have/have had them. Looking at the specifications (again to the novice eye) both model seem to be on a par.

The only differences I can see are :
Sensor Light sensitivity - 12,800 ISO on the 650D compared to 6,400 ISO on the 7D
Sensor Light sensitivity (Boost) 25,600 ISO on the 650D compared to 12,800 ISO on the 7D
Screen Resolution 1,040k dots on the 650D compared to 920k dots on the 7D
The 650D is smaller and lighter
Viewfinder type Pentamirror on the 650D compared to Pentaprism on the 7D
Viewfinder size 0.53x on the 650D compared to 0.62x on the 7D
Viewfinder coverage 95% on the 650D compared to 100% on the 7D
Shutter Lag Performance 269ms on the 650D compared to 131ms on the 7D
Continuous Shooting 5fps on the 650D compared to 8fps on the 7D
Image quality 62.0 on the 650D compared to 66.0 on the 7D
Colour depth 21.7 Bits on the 650D compared to 22 Bits on the 7D
Low Light Performance 722 ISO on the 650D compared to 854 ISO on the 7D
Shutter max 1/4000s on the 650D compared to 1/8000s on the 7D
Price £512 for the 650D camera body compared to £1,069 for the 7D camera body

What are your suggestions / comments about the above mentioned camera models, is the 7D £557 a better camera or is there another alternative I should be looking at and should I consider full frame over crop image sensor. Your thoughts and comments will be greatly appreciated.

Along with the camera I am looking to purchase a wide angle lens (10-22mm) and a canon EF 50mm F1.8 || (maybe not all together ) to accompany the Sigma lenses i already have ( 18 – 50mm and 55 – 200mm)

Thanks in advance
Colin

[Manfred M]

I'm not a Canon shooter, so I can't get into the sub-details of the cameras. I shoot both full-frame and crop frame Nikons, and there are advantages and disadvantages to both; but from a pure cost standpoint, the full-frame cameras are considerably more expensive than the crop frame ones. This goes for both the camera body and the lenses.

Rather than reading specs, try to see how the cameras feel in your hands. For all practical purposes, you are going to get very similar results out of both bodies. It's only when you get into fairly extreme ends of their performance that you might look at the higher end model, and with the 650D being newer, it sometimes outperforms the older, more expensive model.

By the way, those shutter lag times don't look right; that might include the focus times, but that is getting worse than a point & shoot.

If you are just planning to be a casual shooter, go for the less expensive body as this may be all you will need. My concern with the 7D is that it is a fairly old model that was released in 2009. It should be darn close to being replaced; Nikon just replaced its D7000, which more or less lines up against the 7D with the D7100. The 650D, on the other hand was introduced last year. Some of the best advice someone gave me years ago when buying anything was for me to compare the two products and to see if I could notice the difference in performance (i.e. ignore the spec sheet), and if I could, was the price difference worth the difference to me. If not, why would I spend money on the more expensive unit?

When it comes to purchasing a lens, I would offer the same advice. Never just buy a lens. Only buy a lens if you have a specific need for it. Your 18-50mm Sigma has a 50mm focal length. Why would you buy another lens and duplicate a focal length that you already have? There are some reasons to do so, but unless they apply to your needs, why bother? The same thing goes for the 10 - 22mm lens. Why do you want to buy one. At the shorter focal lengths it is an ultra-wide angle lens, and very difficult to shoot well; your existing lens already goes down to 18mm, so what are you going to get out of the 10 - 17mm range that this lens brings to you. Again, there are some good answers, but if you are going to buy a lens that you are not going to use, don't spend the money (I am an ultra-wide angle lens lover and have a 11-16mm for my crop frame and and even wider 14 -24mm for my full frame).

[Bill Yeung]

I upgrade from Canon 20D and happy will all the years for shot around, family shot, travel shot. and using sigma lens. Happy with all these.
until 3 years ago changed to 7D mainly for its 7 Fps, as more kids actions, monkey bar, bicycle, and lately figure skating.
7fps is mainly aiming at sport photography. which is also very similar in kids situation.
Buy it now if you need it. There is always a waiting game on new model, 7D II..... it never ends as it is like every lens too.
7D is not a new model but on the other hand its price drops too after 5DII came out. Why not if it suit your need.
Crop sensor only give us benefit on lens where we can have longer reach.
this is my experience. I think my 7D will serve me for many more years.

[Bill Yeung]

and 7D can fire off camera Canon flash too.
With 580ex II flash, it can also do high speed shuttle flash too.
it is especially useful in capturing action in low light situation.

[Shadowman]

I’m a complete newbie to the world of digital photography. I purchased a Canon 350d a couple of years ago but I've only been” paddling around in the shallow end”, dabbling so to speak without any real understanding of what I’m doing or how I’m achieving results, but now that children have arrived, I feel the time has come, to capture and record precious moments that would otherwise be lost forever. I enjoy outdoor/portrait/landscape photography and have signed up for a photography course starting in next couple of weeks to gain a better understanding of what I am doing.
Thanks in advance
Colin

What does the 350D lack that you cannot achieve with your current system? Sounds like you are still in the learning phase, have you purchased a travel guide for the 350D?

[davidedric]

Strong rumours (again?) of a "70D" announcement on 21st or 22nd March. Sure to impact on 7D/60D prices?

To the Original Poster. If you think you might grow quite rapidly into a more "advanced" body, consider a refurbished model ) I'd still wait to see if the 70D announcement materialises, though!)

[RustBeltRaw]

If you're just planning to document your kids' lives, you may not need a better camera. I'd work with what you have for a few weeks and see if anything's lacking. That will also tell you which skills need work. Fortunately, learning to shoot is much cheaper than equipping yourself to shoot. Give it a while on your current camera before you make a move, and I would definitely wait for the 70D announcement. There's talk of a 7D mkII as well, but that's probably not coming until the end of the summer, and is strongly rumored to be considerably more expensive than the mkI. While neither of these cameras are probably the right answer, they will affect the market, probably by driving down the price of most pre-existing models under them in Canon's lineup.

[inkista]

The first question to ask yourself is do you need a new camera body? I honestly think you should wait a while on a body. Wait until after your class. The 350D is old and limited compared to today's cameras. I shot with one until it died twice. But I got pics like these with it:


Canon 350D/XT. EF 400mm f/5.6L USM. iso 200, f/5.6, 1/1250s.


Canon 350D/XT. EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 II (non-IS kit lens). @18mm, iso 100, f/3.5, 1/2000s.


Canon 350D/XT. EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 II (non-IS kit lens). @18mm, iso 1600, f/8, 1/250s.

How good a camera do you need? How big are you going to print?

Your class is liable to teach you a lot about how you want to use your camera, and possibly about what lenses you may prefer to go for. The XT is going to break down soon enough on its own. It's digital electronics. How long do you keep a computer or cellphone before getting a new one? That's a pretty good guide to how long your camera body is going to be with you.

Just me, but I don't contemplate a new camera body unless my old one's died, or every other piece of photo gear I'm jonesing for is going to cost about the same amount as a new camera body. You'll be forced to move on eventually anyway. But. I'm cheap. I'm a hobbyist. This all comes out of my own pocket. I'm not paying the bills with my gear, so I tend to prefer a bargain: I like purchasing used/refurbished gear, or later in the release cycle to get a lower price.

As I currently have two Sigma lenses ( 18 – 50mm and 55 – 200mm) most stores have advised me to stay with the Canon brand as these lenses cannot be mounted on the only other suggested Nikon brand.

Canon and Nikon are the most-recommended brands because they're the largest most popular systems with the best availability and 3rd party support. That doesn't mean Pentax or Sony might not work for you, too. But they will be more limited and harder to get equivalent gear for. Sticking with Canon is probably your best move, though, since you already have Canon gear. But if you want to switch to Nikon--now's the time to do it, before you've sunk thousands into glass.

The glass, unlike the body, is less disposable, and is more likely to be a permanent purchase, as it moves with you in a body to body upgrade.

Going forward and not wishing to upgrade my camera body again in the near future should I consider a full frame or crop image sensor.

Going crop or full frame has nothing to do with how long you're going to keep the camera. Digital electronics, remember? And moving to full frame is more expensive not just because of the camera, but also because of the glass. And on the Canon side of the fence, it may also mean compromising a bit on the suitability of the body for what you shoot. A 5D3 is a remarkably versatile camera that can handle everything. The 6D is not. Like the 5D2 before it, it is mostly a studio/landscape camera. Fast action is not in its wheelhouse, and a 60D or 7D may actually be more capable if you're chasing small ones around the house.

And EF-S crop lenses will certainly cost you less than EF equivalents. Full frame is not an upgrade to a crop. It's not necessarily better. It's mostly just different.

Suggestions made included the 1100d as an entry model along with the Nikon d3100.

Just me, but don't do it. The handling on these cameras will be worse than what you have with the XT in some ways. Just MHO, but the T4i (650D) or D5200 are probably the lowest you want to look. And if you can't afford them, then look at getting glass, a flash, or a good tripod. The flash will probably take you the farthest if you learn how to use it.

I have also been shown the 600d but as I explained to the representatives about not having to upgrade in the near future the two models most commonly suggested were the 650d and 7d.

Nobody showed you a 60D? That's weird. To me, the 60D, used or refurbished, is probably your best bet right now. Here in the US, they're cheaper than a new 650D. A refurbished 60D body on the Canon USA website (when it's in stock) is $612. A new 650D body only on B&H is $648 (you have to click on the "see cart for product details" to see their actual price.

Some friends have suggested the 7d, primarily because they have/have had them. Looking at the specifications (again to the novice eye) both model seem to be on a par. ...

That's because specs are mostly about the sensor. And not so much about the handling. The main difference in the handling between a XXXXD or XXXD dRebel and an XXD or 7D is the "dual wheel" controls, and a top-LCD with quick buttons. Also a controller on the back. Instead of the four-way buttons, you have another wheel on the back. So, in M mode, the wheel on the top near the shutter button is for shutter speed, the wheel on the back controls aperture. No more A/+- mode button nonsense. The top LCD panel lets you quickly see all your settings all the time, without having to activate/use the main menu panel on the LCD. You have fast-access buttons not only to your ISO, but to other settings like metering mode, drive mode, and white balance. A joystick or secondary controller lets you pick your AF point without having to scroll through everything. You have additional menu selections with more control over things (e.g., you can white balance by Kelvins, not just presets or custom). You get custom modes on the dial to store multiple settings simultaneously.

As someone else mentioned up-thread--try one out in your hands. The specs don't tell the whole story.

Along with the camera I am looking to purchase a wide angle lens (10-22mm) and a canon EF 50mm F1.8 || (maybe not all together ) to accompany the Sigma lenses i already have ( 18 – 50mm and 55 – 200mm)

Good additions to consider. I would, however, throw in a few alternates to consider alongside the 50/1.8 II. Sigma makes a 30mm f/1.4, and Canon's old (non-IS) 35/2, and 28/1.8 USM are all closer to "normal" FoV on a crop. If you're shooting in smaller spaces or using tighter working distances, a 50mm can sometimes be too "tight" on a crop body. However all of these cost considerably more than a 50/1.8 II. So you may also want to consider the EF 40mm f/2.8 STM pancake lens. Here in the US, it's only $50 more than the 50/1.8 II, and I've personally found it to be a much better performer. Sharper wide open than the 50/1.8 is at f/2.8. Also, if you do end up pairing it with a 650D or upcoming 70D, the 40 STM will autofocus more smoothly during video.

Also, vs. the 10-22, you may want to consider the Tamron 11-16/2.8. Not as versatile a zoom range, but a larger maximum aperture. If you were planning on using the ultrawide indoors, this may be a consideration.