No more boxed Adobe apps/licenses

[davidedric]

in a world where economy of scale rules, which data storage solution is going to have the lowest cost per megabyte?

As an individual, I don't care. Though at the moment my hard disks and local back-up are more reliable than my internet connection. As a corporation, I would care very much under which countries' jurisdiction my data was stored.

[Colin Southern]

Great news - it's available via a CC subscription

[Colin Southern]

As an individual, I don't care. Though at the moment my hard disks and local back-up are more reliable than my internet connection.

It's a changing world though; at the moment NZ is going through a massive internet upgrade that'll give us up to 100mb/s download and 50mb/s upload. Already businesses can lease circuits that can handle 1gb/s (which can mean it's faster to pull a file from a remote location than it is to get it from a local harddrive).

As a corporation, I would care very much under which countries' jurisdiction my data was stored.

Of course -- and you would of course have that option if you sign up with a data center.

[orlcam88]

Originally Posted by orlcam88

First off, I use Lightroom for 90% of what I do and this is not part of the CC package.

It sure is.

V4.4

Yes, BUT you can still buy it separately.

[Adrian]

Actually Lightroom is clearly shown. It is exactly 1 click in from the home page where you are invited to "see what's included" http://www.adobe.com/uk/products/cre...-services.html

[davidedric]

Ok, ok. Yes, it is there of course. However, so far as I can see it is not available as a single product with a monthly fee.

Thanks for the chat

Bye

[orlcam88]

Ok, ok. Yes, it is there of course. However, so far as I can see it is not available as a single product with a monthly fee.

they only have one structured price for individual. so paying $19 a month would end up costing more in a year than if you bought it in box. That's probably why it's not available as a "rental".

[Glenn NK]

Time will tell whether or not the Adobe move was a good one. At the present, the Adobe products are admittedly the best available - there are no serious challengers.

However: The development/improvement of products reach a point where the improvements become marginal for the effort expanded. At this point, the less costly and less effective products still have room to improve, and generally they do - and often to the point where they acquire a significant share of the original product's market. Hyundai and Kia are in this category.

We all laughed when Hyundai introduced their low-tech automobiles.

Then we all laughed at Kia.

Who's laughing at them now?

[gaijin]

Careful about upload and download speeds. 1Gb/s doesn't mean that you get a 1 Gb/s download from any one site you're connected to. Rather it means that you can carry out several concurrent downloads before the network itself throttles the throughput. Yes it's better than 10 Mb/s but you might not see any difference when downloading one file from one site.

[John Morton]

I still run my photo editing computer discretely, in that it is not connected to the Internet at all. I move files from it using plug-in USB flash drives that I format after each use on an Internet computer.

I would prefer to retain that discretion through using boxed software I upload from a DVD, which I then keep filed.

The new Adobe Cloud model is one which is clearly designed to benefit them as a corporation; and that is all well and good: but I would still prefer the option of choosing a model more suited to me as an individual consumer, and what Adobe has done here is to remove that option altogether.

Colin has made some very eloquent points arguing in favor of Adobe's new choice of a business model; but the fact of the matter is, they have eliminated any choice that I as a consumer have in this matter; and they can only do that because there is no other real, viable choice available commercially to the Adobe Suite of Creative Software.

In other words, they are using their market position and the lack of any viable competition to force consumers into accepting a business model which might not be the right choice for may consumers. And that, to me, is the essence of what the term "anti-trust" embodies.

[Adrian]

No so. You can still buy the individual items and use them on your stand alone computer if you want.

This may well suit people who are satisfied with a product and who do not require an upgrade path.

It is quite unfair to criticise a business for developing products that become industry standard and then delivering them in a way that suits it. The essence of a free market is that others can develop competing products if they choose. Or not use Adobe. I actually am not a big fan of Lightroom, so I use Aperture.

[Colin Southern]

Careful about upload and download speeds. 1Gb/s doesn't mean that you get a 1 Gb/s download from any one site you're connected to. Rather it means that you can carry out several concurrent downloads before the network itself throttles the throughput. Yes it's better than 10 Mb/s but you might not see any difference when downloading one file from one site.

Yes - I understand that (that's one of my core business areas).

Generally though, traffic exchange with data centres is normally pretty high rate (I do a lot with Google Drive for example, and that's PDQ).

[Colin Southern]

Colin has made some very eloquent points arguing in favor of Adobe's new choice of a business model; but the fact of the matter is, they have eliminated any choice that I as a consumer have in this matter; and they can only do that because there is no other real, viable choice available commercially to the Adobe Suite of Creative Software.

In other words, they are using their market position and the lack of any viable competition to force consumers into accepting a business model which might not be the right choice for may consumers. And that, to me, is the essence of what the term "anti-trust" embodies.

Sorry John, but I can only describe this as "stink'in think'in". Mr. Spock made the statement that "Logic dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" and I think it's unreasonable to expect a company to have to continue with an entire boxed-delivery infrastructure just to satisfy the desire of a very few who - for what-ever reasons - choose to remain unconnected to the internet.

The vast vast vast vast majority of ALL software is now internet-delivery based - for good reason - and I can see no reason why Adobe should be any different. It's not about forcing anybody to do anything - it's about moving with the times to remain competitive.

Let's put some numbers to that -- taken from Adobe's website, but I have no reason to suspect that they've been dishonestly manipulated.

If we consider 3 stars up to mean all those upwards from "OK I guess / not delighted but-it's-OK / I'm fine with it" to "Brilliant" then looking at those numbers, a full 95% of people are happy with it. I for one can't wait for it.

[Glenn NK]

The vast vast vast vast majority of ALL software is now internet-delivery based - for good reason - and I can see no reason why Adobe should be any different. It's not about forcing anybody to do anything - it's about moving with the times to remain competitive.

I cannot remember the last software I bought that came in a box. Oh wait a moment, it was a word processor - ten years ago - then I had to go online to get updates.

[Colin Southern]

I cannot remember the last software I bought that came in a box. Oh wait a moment, it was a word processor - ten years ago - then I had to go online to get updates.

Welcome to the 2013's Adobe - it's great to have you here with us!

[plugsnpixels]

Lots of good discussion here! There are a number of levels to this subject: Adobe's business practices/treatment of customers, alternative delivery systems, centralization of data, etc.

I can see advantages and disadvantages to Adobe's new licensing scheme (the main topic), as many have discussed here and elsewhere. I have no problem whatsoever with electronic delivery of software (I don't want to wait for mail and have CDs and manuals taking up lots of room when MANY apps will fit on a single backup data DVD).

I personally don't like the idea of the subscription system because it seems like loss of control (aside from whether or not it turns out to be a better deal financially). Same with cloud computing. I like my personal data/projects on hand, at hand. It's bad enough our civilization relies totally on electricity (and all that's related to generating it); now our important business data is stored who knows where, and who knows who has access to it. You KNOW it's not as secure as we are told. This makes individuals, businesses and entire countries vulnerable.

On the other hand, I thoroughly enjoy the interconnectedness of the internet and all it offers, especially for research, communication, e-commerce, entertainment and general data delivery. If Adobe were to just simply drop all boxes and discs and deliver online (as Apple now does), I don't think the customer blowback would be nearly as bad as we are seeing it. Then they'd be dealing with a small percentage of customer inconvenience, not (whether it's true or not) the perception of outright fleecing.

[Colin Southern]

Same with cloud computing. I like my personal data/projects on hand, at hand. It's bad enough our civilization relies totally on electricity (and all that's related to generating it); now our important business data is stored who knows where, and who knows who has access to it. You KNOW it's not as secure as we are told. This makes individuals, businesses and entire countries vulnerable.

You might be surprised. I would suggest that data stored in Data Centers is orders of magnitude safer than on someones local PC. Data Centers have redundancy - failover - backups - professional management. Typical home & small business users have none of these. How many people do you know who (a) don't back up at all or (b) think they're backed up because they do the occasional backup and put it in the safe? We had a real-world eye-opener here with our major earthquake in Christchurch where businesses couldn't get to their data because it was on machines in the red zone -- and they couldn't get to their backups either - some for over a YEAR. Those with their data in the cloud could get immediate access to it. Things like that DIRECTLY determine whether or not a business lives or dies.

If you're concerned about data security from a "who has access" perspective then encrypt it. Easy.

On the other hand, I thoroughly enjoy the interconnectedness of the internet and all it offers, especially for research, communication, e-commerce, entertainment and general data delivery. If Adobe were to just simply drop all boxes and discs and deliver online (as Apple now does), I don't think the customer blowback would be nearly as bad as we are seeing it. Then they'd be dealing with a small percentage of customer inconvenience, not (whether it's true or not) the perception of outright fleecing.

What blowback? As with anything, there will always be a vocal minority So what? Reading through many of the comments on the originally referenced article, many of them aren't even open to interpretation -- they're just plain WRONG (like why should I pay for everything when I only want 1 product - doh - you can have only 1 product. And those who mistakenly misassociate "cloud based" with browser-based use - doh - the products are still installed locally or those who thing that your content MUST be stored in the cloud and that if they ever stop paying Adobe's "ransom" then they'll lose all their work) All I can say to those people (and putting it more politely than they do) is "thank god Adobe aren't 1/2 as stupid as they are".

By my interpretation of their data, 95% are happy -> delighted by it. All of my cloud experiences to date have been superb. And I'll tell you what - Google have lost a lot less of my data (none in fact) than I have over the years.

[plugsnpixels]

I was referring to the "who has access" perspective. I don't doubt there are times when cloud access is helpful. I ran my phone through the wash and they were able to restore (my small amount of data) from their cloud.

As for blowback, we must be reading different comments ;-). Of course, it's unknown whether only unhappy people post though. Anybody who does seem happy in such comments (and I'm not referring to you) is accused of being an Adobe shill.

[Scott Stephen]

Great news - it's available via a CC subscription

Oh SWELL. No worries at all then. But at $15/month, isn't that $180.00/year? Didn't it only cost about 1/2 that to actually BUY a copy of Lightroom that would be yours to keep?

[plugsnpixels]

So, how will subscribers' wallets feel after, say 4, 5, 10 years-?