Need some help - overexposed RAW/DNG

[Colin Southern]

I hope you don't think after all the help you have given me that I was trying to point out that you got the rule wrong.

No, not at all - I was just kicking myself for getting the maths wrong in my head when - doh - that shot of all shots didn't need any conversion at all

Just the opposite actually, the "Sunny 16" rule was appropriate for the scene, and that's what I thought you were saying. After looking up the rule, I came to realize how my sloppy exposure methods caused the the camera to screw up.

A lot of people don't quite fully understand the rule though - it's for a front-lit object at least 2 hours after sunrise and at least 2 hours before sunset; if you have direct light (ie "back lighting") you can still get blown highlights.

What was the "sloppy exposure method" you mentioned?

[ScoutR]

A lot of people don't quite fully understand the rule though - it's for a front-lit object at least 2 hours after sunrise and at least 2 hours before sunset; if you have direct light (ie "back lighting") you can still get blown highlights.

I didn't pick up on that part of it, it just said in bright sun f16 and the reciprical of the ISO. The situation here was mid-late afternoon, bright sun, and lots of clouds.

What was the "sloppy exposure method" you mentioned?

Well, I'm not sure why the camera gave me a 1/60th sec exposure. That's where the sloppy part comes in. I was not paying attention at all. I let the camera do all the work, and to compound the problem, I had the wrong type of metering selected. The only effort I put into it was getting out of the car, and waiting for the sun to come out from behind the clouds. I think I can do better in the future. I'm working on it.

[Colin Southern]

I had the wrong type of metering selected.

That would definately explain it

Metering modes are our way of telling the camera what parts of the scene are important - in the case of scenes like this you want a mode that evaluates the entire scene.

[Dave Humphries]

Originally Posted by ScoutR:
I had the wrong type of metering selected.

I'm not convinced it was that wrong, the EXIF says;
"Metering Mode = pattern / multi-segment (5)"

[Colin Southern]

I'm not convinced it was that wrong, the EXIF says;
"Metering Mode = pattern / multi-segment (5)"

Yes - I have to admit that I thought we'd already ticked that box as well. Having said that though it DID none-the-less still get it wrong by 2 stops, which surprises me.

The other thing that I'm still keeping an open mind about is exif data being wrong; I can show you some images with 12 and 16 minute exposures - confirmed in Bridge - and yet showing as 30-second exposures in Photoshop. Probably not the case, but it still just doesn't add up in my mind.

[ScoutR]

The other thing that I'm still keeping an open mind about is exif data being wrong; I can show you some images with 12 and 16 minute exposures - confirmed in Bridge - and yet showing as 30-second exposures in Photoshop. Probably not the case, but it still just doesn't add up in my mind.

Hi Colin and Dave:

I have just checked the camera settings and the Metering Mode is (and was) set to Matrix. You guys are saying that this would be the right setting and the description in the camera guide suggests the same. However, I am thinking that with a scene like this it might be best to do it the old fashioned way and spot meter on either the shadows or hightlights and then compensate exposure accordingly or adjust during PP????? No???

I have checked other settings on the camera (there are way too many ) to see if there is anything else that might have messed things up. The only 2 I can see are:

1. I have Active D lighting turned on
2. I have the colour settings set to Vivid

On another note, I found the "blinkie" thing in the review menu and now have that turned on. Mine doesn't blink though it just shows a red mask over the blown highlights. Too bad one can't see this before taking the photo.
So just to clarify the method. You take the shot, switch to preview, check the blinkie, make adjustments if required and then shoot again.
Also, when using the blinkie, should I try to adjust just to get rid of the blown areas but still try to keep (if the situation warrants or allows) the histogram to the right so I keep more information.

You will be happy to know I just ordered a few books to cover these things. They should be here by Monday, so I will try not to be such a pest.

Heres what I'm getting: If nothing else they should keep me busy for awhile and you can have a rest.

1. Scott Kelby: "Digital Photography Vol. I,II,III"
2. "The Photographer's Eye: Composition and Design for Better Digital Photos"
Michael Freeman
3. "Michael Freeman's Perfect Exposure: The Professional's Guide to Capturing Perfect Digital Photographs"
4. "Understanding Exposure: How to Shoot Great Photographs with a Film Or Digital Camera"
Bryan Peterson

[Colin Southern]

However, I am thinking that with a scene like this it might be best to do it the old fashioned way and spot meter on either the shadows or hightlights and then compensate exposure accordingly or adjust during PP????? No???

You can do - but it is an advanced technique. Works a treat so long as you understand that you HAVE to dial in EC for any region that you meter that isn't a medium gray value. On many of my landscapes I spot meter the brightest portion of the sky and then upshift the exposure by around 2 stops (to move it from being treated as a mid-tone to being treated as a highlight).

So just to clarify the method. You take the shot, switch to preview, check the blinkie, make adjustments if required and then shoot again.

I don't know about your camera, but on Canon's it shows on the review screen automatically for a preset time.

Also, when using the blinkie, should I try to adjust just to get rid of the blown areas but still try to keep (if the situation warrants or allows) the histogram to the right so I keep more information.

Pretty much. If I was to split hairs I might say that with the blinkies you can then decide if the area contains information that you want to keep or not. If the reflection is of a couple in the proverbial 59 chevvy and the sun is shining off the big chrome bumpers - and you expose so that those specular reflections don't blow then all you'll have left of the people in the car is dark shadows - so sometimes you have to live with blown highlights. You may not have a 59 chevvy, but the same thing would apply with back lighting (say, a person standing with a window behind them, and you're not using fill flash).

You will be happy to know I just ordered a few books to cover these things. They should be here by Monday, so I will try not to be such a pest.

Heres what I'm getting: If nothing else they should keep me busy for awhile and you can have a rest.

1. Scott Kelby: "Digital Photography Vol. I,II,III"
2. "The Photographer's Eye: Composition and Design for Better Digital Photos"
Michael Freeman
3. "Michael Freeman's Perfect Exposure: The Professional's Guide to Capturing Perfect Digital Photographs"
4. "Understanding Exposure: How to Shoot Great Photographs with a Film Or Digital Camera"
Bryan Peterson

3 & 4 might overlap a bit, but all good stuff. Books are great because they're generally well written, and the author can take the time to lay good foundations whereas here we're generally limited to just a few paragraphs at best.

[Dave Humphries]

Hi Wendy,

You may have missed this above:

~ if (D3000 is) same as my D5000; the "blinkies" Colin refers to are available via one of the reveiw screen modes on the camera (called "Highlights"), you cycle through them with the up/down pads (left/right does previous/next image).

That should get you sorted when shooting although I wrote it from memory, so I'll check I haven't got it wrong tonight.

IF you have blown pixels, they flash alternately white/black about once a second, if nothing is blown, it just looks like a large version of the image, the only clue is the word "Highlights" in bottom left corner.


The red colour you refer to is what ACR does to show blown channels isn't it?

Cheers,

[ScoutR]

Hi Dave: No I didn't miss it. Your post is what got me looking for the Highlight screen. I got it set last night and I swear it showed a red mask over the blown highlights. I just looked at it now though and I have the black and white blinkies you have described.

I think I can also program the review to stay on longer after the original shot, and if I get that set up then it will be very helpful without a lot of fuss having to go back to review mode to check it.

Many thanks for pointing this out. I didn't think I could do this with the D3000. I had to go to the online manual to find it. The hardcopy of the manual did not go into any detail at all about these different screens.

Wendy

[Dave Humphries]

~ I had to go to the online manual to find it. The hardcopy of the manual did not go into any detail at all about these different screens. ~

Any chance of a link? (Save me looking)

Thanks in advance,

[ScoutR]

Below is a link that will take you to the D3000 download page at the Nikon Canada site. If you click on the black button you will have to sign up to download the manual. Right below that is a text link where it says "download non-printable version" clicking here will take you to the Nikon USA site and download the file.
Let me know if this works for you. It's a 15 Mb pdf file. If the downloads don't work, I can give you a file attachment. (I will try anyway)

http://help.nikon.ca/app/answers/detail/a_id/16533

[Keith]

I am no expert, but I use Nikons and I just wondered if the D3000 is fitted with an exposure lock button like my D90 and D40.
I have sometimes pressed the exposure lock button (mine is set to lock when pressed, then pressed again to release), forgotten about it and then found that because the exposure is locked the image comes out over or under exposed because the camera is unable to evaluate the scene.

Just a thought.

Keith

[ScoutR]

I am no expert, but I use Nikons and I just wondered if the D3000 is fitted with an exposure lock button like my D90 and D40.

Hi Keith:

The D3000 has an AE-L/ AF-L button that can be programmed to function in different manners. I really don't use it, but I checked and mine is set to lock focus if pressed (factory default I guess)

I have sometimes pressed the exposure lock button (mine is set to lock when pressed, then pressed again to release), forgotten about it and then found that because the exposure is locked the image comes out over or under exposed because the camera is unable to evaluate the scene.

Just a thought.

Thanks Keith, It's a good thought. I could have very easily pressed it by mistake and never even realized it. If it was programmed to lock exposure, that would explain why the whole shoot came out the same way. Unfortunatley though, it looks like the way it is set, if I locked anything it would have been the focus.

I will be paying more attention next time I go out. If it's constantly overexposing everything, and I still can't figure out why I will take it to the shop and have it checked out.

If you think of anything else, let me know.

Thanks agin
Wendy

[Dave Humphries]

Hi Wendy,

Thanks for the link, I used it to oriente myself on the Nikon UK/Europe site (where I am already registered) and find/download the 20MB UK version.

Hi Keith,

That's a good thought, must be careful with that

Cheers,

[peterdurk]

I've only just joined this forum so I apologise for a late entry. But I just wanted to mention that I have to always tweak my images which I take in RAW format; in fact I only shoot in RAW. If and when I shoot in Jpeg I know that my camera will do some in-camera processing to present the photograph. It looks OK but does not offer all the tones that the camera can capture. That is the beauty of RAW. You are presented with all the information which was captured by the camera's sensor. There is no post processing done by the camera.
With my camera; an older Nikon I have noticed that I have to expose with a +.5 EC to get the exposure which I like in most situations, not all. That means I nearly always have to do some post processing work in Lightroom. Not a problem because Lightroom is such a powerful tool.

Don't know if this helps any, but Happy New Year to you all anyway.

[ScoutR]

I've only just joined this forum so I apologise for a late entry. But I just wanted to mention that I have to always tweak my images which I take in RAW format;

Hello and Welcome Peter: I think you will like this forum, there is such a wide range of talent here from beginner (like me) to very experienced professional photographers, and everyone is very helpful.
Thanks for confirming what I am starting to realize now about the RAW format. I even have presets made up in Lightroom that I apply to almost every shot, and I realize now that it is normal to have to do that. It even makes sense to me the more that I read and learn.

With my camera; an older Nikon I have noticed that I have to expose with a +.5 EC to get the exposure which I like in most situations, not all.

My results are also pretty consistent and I'm sure EC would help in the original shot. I am working on evaluating the situation to come up with proper EC when shooting. Trouble is I find the dials on the camera pretty awkward, so at this point I am letting Lightroom do the work.

That means I nearly always have to do some post processing work in Lightroom. Not a problem because Lightroom is such a powerful tool.

Good to have another Lightroom user here. I'm a complete Newbie to all this, but I have found LR to be pretty intuitive, and I like the program a lot. I hope you keep a watch on the PP threads. We ( I ) always have lots of questions.

Don't know if this helps any, but Happy New Year to you all anyway.

Yes, it did, thanks for taking the time. Happy New Year to you also.

Wendy