Trials & tribulations of street shooting lenses

[Manfred M]

Hi Adrian – it sounds like you had a rather interesting learning experience on your recent trip. It really sounds like you have discovered some limitations in your own creative and technical skills. Unfortunately, the only way to get better is to keep on shooting, reviewing your work and improving both your compositional technique and getting to know your camera better.

A few thoughts for you:

1. Start with situations that are within your skill / comfort range. Shooting a static, well lit scene is going to likely give you better results than a situation with poor lighting where the subject is moving towards you. As you master a particular shooting situation, move on and try something incrementally new until you master than; and

2. Practice before you head out on your travel – I grab my camera whenever I head into town. I may or may not shoot, if I don’t find what I want, but the incremental practice in an environment that I know well gives me the practice I need so that my skills are honed when I get into an unfamiliar shooting situation.

I figured this out some time ago; I noticed that the images I took on my travels got better as the trip went on. We started getting out and did some fairly heavy duty shooting around town before heading off on a trip and our shooting skills were up to snuff on arrival.

3. Review your images as soon as you can. I always travel with a computer or table and review my work daily. That lets me things that are working for me and things that are not and I can adjust my techniques (compositional and technical) for the next day.

[Clactonian]

"why specifically are you limited to ISO400? "
Bill I have a D2Xs, wonderful camera but old hat now and absolutely useless above ISO400.

[William W]

. . . statements of the seemingly obvious are helpful: for example "you had no business being at ISO xxx... "did indeed make me smile. . .Absence of planning was not something I had really thought about . . .

Good -oh!

Have a great day . . .

WW

[William W]

"why specifically are you limited to ISO400? "
Bill I have a D2Xs, wonderful camera but old hat now and absolutely useless above ISO400.

Thanks for replying.
I have not used that camera: so I cannot and will not make a direct response.

However, I would encourage you with the following comments:

• Noise is more apparent on the monitor than in the print
• The appearance of noise, when using the Higher ISOs is exacerbated by even a slight UNDERexposure
• Noise is sometimes not "bad" just because it is there - it can add character, just as Film Grain can add character
• De-Noise programmes can be very useful
• It is possible to crib a little bit of ISO, if one is careful - by shooting a tad underexposed (1 stop max) and careful conversion to Black and White

As mentioned, I haven’t used the D2Xs, but I have used a Canon 10D; 20D; 300D; 350D; 400D and 450D – all off which can be make acceptable images at ISO800 and some models at ISO1600.

Obviously “acceptable images” is subjective, but I think you might be a bit too concerned about noise - and that would not good if that over-concern were limiting your Photography Experience: and I think it could be so doing.

Here is a 20D pushed to ISO3200 (“H” setting) (no de-noise programme used):

“Honey – Where did you park the Twins?”

And a 400D pushed to ISO1600 (no de-noise programme used):

And the crop

– sure there is noise evident, but it’s not unbearable.


WW

[Adrian]

Manfred, thanks! I agree that in some respects I am out of my comfort zone. This camera was bought specifically to photograph the northern lights in extreme conditions of -30 to -40 temperatures, with the expectation that I would then use it for portrait work (which I am very comfortable with) and video plus general photography in my office every day (which I have now bought a 6D for as well).

I do not regard the 5DIII + good glass as ideal for street / travel photography. It is a truly superb camera but...it is heavy, complex, conspicuous and large. I feel uncomfortable with it in some situations. Rome is pickpocket / snatch and grab central, and I felt uncomfortable with it there. In many ways a Leica X1 (now sold) or X2 (with tape over the red dot) or something similar is better, especially in places like busy local markets as discretion is easy. We have an M9 as well (passed through family) but the whole rangefinder thing needs dedication and although the glass can be superb, the technology (ISO, screen etc) is really dated.

So, I have decided to work at my photography and really learn the Canon when time permits. I hate lugging gear around, so the compromise is always the one or two lenses I have with me. The only way to learn street photography (which I really like) is to practise. I like the idea of practising when not on trips as I also agree that my technique improves markedly from beginning to end of a trip. I do download to my laptop every day, but I don't process until much later (time constraints).

My comfort zone is furniture and architecture. Less need for practise there: they are controlled environments to a great extent and I can take my time. I can see that some predictive planning of settings is smart and I will work on that.

So, back to the ideal lens. Needs to be as fast as my 85mm f1.2, but have a zoom range of say 16-135, image stabilisation and not have a lens hood that is as wide as a house and it must weight less than a brick. Come on Canon!

Seriously, I am tempted by primes for travel, plus one long zoom lens. I took my 50mm f1.4 to Rome and It was great for indoor shots. I am tempted to try the f1.2 L to improve sharpness (I always find the 1.4 slightly less crisp than I would like). The 85mm f1.2 is a superb lens, but it is really big and is not suited to hurried work. I'll stop rambling

[Clactonian]

Thanks for replying.
I have not used that camera: so I cannot and will not make a direct response.

However, I would encourage you with the following comments:

• Noise is more apparent on the monitor than in the print
• The appearance of noise, when using the Higher ISOs is exacerbated by even a slight UNDERexposure
• Noise is sometimes not "bad" just because it is there - it can add character, just as Film Grain can add character
• De-Noise programmes can be very useful
• It is possible to crib a little bit of ISO, if one is careful - by shooting a tad underexposed (1 stop max) and careful conversion to Black and White

Thanks for your encouragement and tips Bill but as Thom Hogan says of the D2X "Noise at higher ISO values... While I'm perfectly happy with the ISO 100 to ISO 400 performance, some will want even better results. High ISO noise is definitely visible, though JPEGs are free from chroma noise, and edge detail is hard to retain if you turn up the noise reduction or use post processing noise reduction." The results above ISO 400 really are messy and in my experience best avoided, and having been brought up on film I don't find that as hard as I might otherwise have done.

[Dave Humphries]

Hi Mike,

I was also surprised at what you said and would add to Bill's list that no, or minimal, cropping would help.

Then I got inquisitive and looked to see...
how many MP a D2X is; 12MP it seems and
what the iso range is; 100 - 800 (max.) - that was a surprise - no camera is going to be acceptable at the maximum iso - so now I believe you

Cheers,

[William W]

Then I got inquisitive and looked to see... what the iso range is; 100 - 800 (max.) - that was a surprise

Yes I checked that too before writing anything and I was surprised at that IS range, also.

I would still have a crack at it though.

WW

[William W]

I do not regard the 5DIII + good glass as ideal for street / travel photography. . .

Yes, it's big.

I carry my 5D (with battery grip) in one hand with the neck strap around my wrist - less conspicuous than it dangling around the neck.

The 35/1.4 is smaller than the 24 to 70.

***

On another note: I am seriously looking at a Fuji X100s.


WW

[Polar01]

Adrian: Just go out, practice, learn to push yourself and the camera to the edge, then beyond. That is the only way to get comfortable with your kit. That camera was made to be the best they have, and you are holding it back, another camera is not going to help you, you need to practice, that camera at this point in your photography needs to be in your hands each day, if you are not in the office working than that camera is in your hands, make it a part of you. Your mistakes are those of a beginner, yours is an excellent example showing that it is not the camera or glass but the person behind the camera, the best equipment there is and you take a bad picture. So to correct that practice.
Getting different glass will not help learn the relationship between ISO, f-stops, shutter speed and then throw in hyper-focus, once learned then you will find that you do not really need those lens to get better images.
Sorry for being so blunt, I just can not believe the number of people I meet that blow a wad of cash, getting the top of everything, then asking me how to adjust their kit so they can get good images, I did it the old fashion way practice, practice, practice along with observation of the results.

Again sorry for the steam
Cheers:

Allan

[Clactonian]

Yes I checked that too before writing anything and I was surprised at that IS range, also.

I would still have a crack at it though.

WW

The only downside of an otherwise beautiful beast.