The truth

[ggt]

This is disturbing and I think relates to your post:

This Might Not Work: Chicago Sun Times Fires All Its Photographers To Replace Them With iPhones


http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworst...-with-iphones/

(I seem to have trouble posting this link --ah, the old brain, be patient with me)

[nimitzbenedicto]

This is disturbing and I think relates to your post:

This Might Not Work: Chicago Sun Times Fires All Its Photographers To Replace Them With iPhones


http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworst...-with-iphones/

(I seem to have trouble posting this link --ah, the old brain, be patient with me)

I think that's a business decision. For sure, many endless discussions will crop up. Many will write/say hope that's a bad decision. However, the sun times is a business and has to do what it takes to earn profits and to keep it alive.

The "truth"?

Even if we take a poll here on CiC and the side saying the sun times made a bad decision wins overwhelmingly, our poll won't contribute a single cent to the profit picture of the sun times.

Whether photogs like it or not , the mobile phone cam is here to stay and has affected photography in many ways.

But the forthcoming discussions are something to while the time away.




[ btw, seems there's a thread like this before. ]

[jcuknz]

I remember back when I got the Kodak newsletter a story about a local TV station that sent out two reporters to film the news and they alternated positions as they went from story to story .... c. three decades ago or maybe a bit more, pre-1980, when we still used that funny stuff with holes down one side in Auricons

The SunTimes story is less a photographer story but a Canikon v. Apple-Samsung one [ whoever makes I-phones? ]

[tomdinning]

No mistakes, no regrets, Andre.

[Manfred M]

When did it change from 4 to 6, Manfred?

It will be going from 5 to 6 in 2015 in Ontario, Canada. That was announced by the Provincial government this week as a part of the method of reducing the number of teachers that are graduating. They will also be halving the number of people that can attend teacher's college. For about the past 10 years there have been roughly 1 teaching job for every 3 teacher's college graduates.

Back when I was at university (35 years ago), a high school teacher needed a 4-year degree plus a certain number of university courses in the subject matter (I think it may have been two ot three full-year courses) to be able to teach those subjects plus their teaching certificate. A public school teacher only needed a 3-year degree plus the teacher's college certificate. Technical subject teachers did not need a degree at all (other than a teaching certificate) but had to have spent a certain length of time working in the subject matter area; whether than be a machinist. an auto mechanic, etc.

Somewhere along the line things started to go off the rails; the universities dropped the 3-year Bachelor of Arts (BA) degree and somebody (in their infinite wisdom) decided that a teacher should be able to teach any subject (likely driven by the fact that teacher's salaries in specific fields were not competitve with what industry was paying - this primarily affected the maths, physics and chemistry), so it no longer mattered what one studied at university. I know of one teacher who studied English at univeristy (because he was no good at maths and sciences) who was forced to teach math and barely was a step ahead of the students he was teaching.


Frankly, the same issue has hit the universities as well; I had a number of professors who had bachelors and masters degrees (and this was at one of the top ranked engineering schools in the country). Today everyone has to have at least a doctorate.

[John Morton]

When I had just turned eighteen I enrolled myself into a mature-age degree in order to learn professional writing and editing. The idea being that it would give me the credits needed to go to university and get a Bachelor's in the arts, since I didn't have a high-school diploma (homelessness, drugs, etc.)...

...Other events in my life made staying in the course difficult and with being despondent over my prospects, I took a full-time night job and left the course. It was the single worst decision (and I've made a LOT of poor decisions) of my life. Ever since then I've lived with a hopeless sense of underachievement. Even when I had success, it wasn't for something in which I had any passion or interest. I put off other aspects of my life to focus on making a career for myself in a realistic profession.

And it's made me the miserable son-of-a-female-dog I am today.

Now I'm at a point where I've given up trying to fight against what it is I really want to do and decided that even if I fail at achieving success in photography, writing and film-making, at least I will be failing at something that I have a genuine interest and passion for and not failing at something that gives my life no meaning.

I'd rather be a failure at something I love than be a success at something I loathe.

So sure, tutors should inform their students of the realities of the industry, however discouraging them to the point of diverting them into another career helps no-one. If we're in a third-world country where becoming a photographer won't feed you or your family, sure, by all means tell them to pursue something more realistic. But those of us in first-world countries who have the luxury to pursue our dreams should absolutely take full advantage of any opportunity given them, even if it's unrealistic that they'll achieve anything while doing it.

I had an interesting arc through the field of photography. I started out with developing and printing black and white negatives while in Grade 9 at high school; and by the time I graduated, I was well enough versed in darkroom techniques to find employment at small newspapers. I traveled around for a year before going on to university, working for my first publication (Briarpatch Magazine, still being published); then I worked for small newspapers in Canada's Northwest Territories during my summer months away from school. For my final two years, I was the staff photographer for the university's student newspaper. Some years later, I signed on as the photo editor for an alternative newspaper in Vancouver.

I also began studying taijiquan in university; and afterward, continued to study Tai Chi while also pursuing various interests within the environmental movement (all of which were viable options in Vancouver).

I've had a lot of day jobs; and, night jobs too.

You might think that this is where I tell you about pursuing photography as a passion; but no, that is not the case. Initially, I wanted to be a writer, too; and so I started out in university as a English major. A funny thing happened, though: I also took a philosophy class in my first year, and discovered that language theory was all the rage in that field. So, I jumped over into philosophy; and although language theory has long passed as the dominant paradigm in that field (having been replaced with biological models), I stayed within that conceptual context to develop what has become my own particular passion in life: deconstructing and then reconstructing the previously undocumented form of image writing used by the First Nations of North America prior to their contact with European civilizations.

I managed to publish a few article related to this work; and I continue to work on this project, funding it as best I can with those proverbial day jobs. Of course, there is no direct funding for the kind of work I am doing - not for me, anyway. All of which is a roundabout way of saying: Look, you can be an unprecedented and unqualified success at something you have a passion for BUT still not be recognized or rewarded for that. As a dismal failure or an unqualified success, what really matters is whether or not you have managed to test the limits of what you, as a person, are capable of doing; and in doing so, have come to terms with and achieved some degree of peace from at least being that person who you alone are capable of becoming in this life.

If you can to some degree achieve that, then you will have found all that there is for you or anyone in this life; and if you miss doing any of that to at least some extent, then you will have wasted the one life you have to live.

It doesn't matter if you are a photographer, or a plumber, or a writer, or a farmer, or anything else: what matters is that you somehow manage to find the limits of your human potential, and strive to at least somewhat live up to being who only you can be as a person.

[drjuice]

Hi, again, DDK - I absolutely agree with you. Each of us has to decide what we want to do professionally (or even non-professionally) OURSELVES. Then we have to set our minds on becoming prepared to do that job. As an example, I had a student the first year I taught at DeVry. He'd been in the Army and retired after 20 years just before 9/11. He didn't want to go back in the service, but he had some resources for education so he came to DeVry just wanting to put a notch on his belt because what he really wanted to do was to work for Burlington-Northern-Santa Fe (a railroad company in the Western US). For somebody with his background, they knew he'd qualify to work for them, but he didn't have a degree. The job he had his eye on was going digital, so he picked networking since he figured that would give him a breadth of knowledge across the digital landscape. Eighteen months later, he landed with BNSF and is now working in the Ports of Long Beach and Los Angeles as the lead on the project to upgrade what is now the ten-year old software to manage the movement of containers to/from ships and onto/off the container carrying train cars. His parents were truly astonished that he finished his degree and also that he's moved on up. His son was in the last class I taught at DeVry (Unix for networking dudes). ;~) So, make up your mind and do it, I sez!

virginia

[William W]

Various employers and agencies require various qualifications to be attained by “teachers”.

Speaking only from experience in my area of the world - these includes credentials such as or equivalent to: a Diploma in Education; a Teaching Certificate; Certification(s) based upon Practical Hours, under scrutiny.

Qualifying with these credentials, is all about the PRACTICE of TEACHING.

These do not guarantee that one would be a good teacher, but it is reasonable to assume that there’s more chance the teacher will be skilled in the art of teaching, than one whom has graduated with credentials in the SUBJECT, only.

So given these facts, it occurs to me that there are indeed those who call themselves (or are referred to as) “Teachers” who have NEVER been taught, how to Teach – and it seems that these people do indeed charge money for their “Teaching”, either by salary wage or directly to the Client.

Is that so dissimilar to those who label themselves “professional” Photographers, but who have never been taught how to Photograph and yet charge money for their Photographing services?

***

When we built a swimming pool we had several pool builders attend our home and each was interrogated - some more so than others; including asking for sites of previous constructed pool such that we might also interrogate thier previous customers.

Before we began a family, we made appointments with several (four) different Obstetrician/Gynaecologist Specialists and we interviewed them (well only three actually because one was not inclined to see us).

Just after our first child was born, I interviewed representatives of several schools, to assess which best suited our needs . . .

I have shot many Weddings: I always ‘expected’ that any prospective Client would ‘interview’ me – many did, but, many did not . . . that was THEIR choice.

There are many: bad teachers, poor schools, shonky pool builders, not so good medical practitioners and crappy photographers.

And there are also lots of lazy buyers.



WW

[Thlayle]

So...a couple of days later and after this thread has run its course, I will jump in 'at the end' and offer some thoughts since I found this discussion to be interesting in a number of ways.

I am an amateur whose experience goes back long before the advent of digital. It has always been an intermittent hobby for me but lately I am spending lots of time & energy at it (and yes some cash too).

I enjoy the CIC site and discussions like this, along with other chances to interact with other photographers (both amateur & pro) who are present in various online forums.

In this thread, I see musings about what it means to be a photographer and what its like to experience the conflict between having a passion for something and having a way to sustain oneself at it and whether it is worthwhile to encourage anyone else at it.

As my own skills improve, I get questions about whether I am intending to make money at it or at least comments encouraging me to give it a go. These comments of course are flattering & admittedly it helps propel me forward in my efforts. Still, I try to keep it in perspective, knowing that indeed there ARE many talented people with cameras 'out there.'

From seeing many of your comments, I see echoes of the comment, passed off a in a blog I read recently: “if you want to make quick money from photography, sell your camera”. I am also reminded of another comment I read a while back that was to the effect: the ultimate job success is getting paid for what you love to do. I think that doesn't happen all that often in any field of endeavor.

So for me, this will always be about the passion. I pick up my camera to go out for the experiences, rather than just hearing about them, and to capture the feel of the things I see.

For me, photography is (paradoxically) more about voice than vision. Through it, I have found my voice to say things I cannot seem to express in words.

And no... I can't say that it will ever pay the bills, or even pay for itself. The ONLY reasons I would myself try to attain anything like the status of 'professional' is to pay for the work to help me keep at it (to support my habit in other words) and since it seems we collectively measure everything by money, getting paid for it would be a validation of its own.

There you have it. Thanks for sharing your thoughts in this post and thanks for being contributors to the CIC.

-rb