Questions for Landscape Photographers - Fall Colours, Light in the Forest

[Brownbear]

This morning I headed out early hiking to a lake surrounded by mountains with the hopes of capturing a landscape of the mountains and fall foliage reflected in the lake thinking that I should be there by the golden hour to capture the light.

However the light I was looking for never arrived and I'm thinking that for forest shots because of the mountains blocking the light perhaps the golden hour is not the best time. I nearly froze to death, became paranoid about bear encounters because I was the only one human around, and the fall foliage is not quite ready yet. So I am going to try again in a couple of weeks.

1. For landscapes in the forests what time of day is best for lighting? Later in the morning when the sun is out or perhaps nearer to sunset?

2. With respect to shutter speed is there a general go to number to account for the leaves fluttering on the trees?

3. With respect to aperture, I read somewhere that the smallest aperture is best for maximum depth of field (22 for my lens) but I also read that this is not true, just focus on infinity and choose the aperture for the best light.

4. It seems it really is impossible to not blow the sky and expose for the forest without a ND filter? I had my exposure compensation set to -2 but was still seeing blinkies in the sky.

PS Any tips for landscape photography for a novice trying to capture fall colours, mountains, reflections in lakes would be appreciated.

Thank you.

[Donald]

Chrsitina

I hope/think that many people will come into this thread with their ideas.

But the first one I'd jump in with relates to:

3. With respect to aperture, I read somewhere that the smallest aperture is best for maximum depth of field (22 for my lens) but I also read that this is not true, just focus on infinity and choose the aperture for the best light.

What you read is true. But the thing you need to get an understanding of is, I suggest, Hyperfocal Distance. Have a read of the tutorial here on CiC. Just go to the 'Tutorials' pages and scroll down.

I am a strong advocate of the use of hyperfocal distance. Others don't rate it as highly. But, whether you become a disciple or not, I think it's useful to understand what it's about.

[Brownbear]

Thank you Donald. I will review the tutorial on hyper focal distance which rings a bell, but the bell needs to be a little louder...

[Brownbear]

Hi Donald,


From the tutorial...

Perhaps the best way to optimize your focusing distance is visually. Try first focusing on the most distant object within your scene, then manually adjust the focusing distance as close as possible while still retaining an acceptably sharp background. If your scene has distant objects near the horizon, then this focusing distance will closely approximate the hyperfocal distance. Alternatively, use the tool below to calculate its location precisely:

I was focusing on a spot on the horizon of the water, ie; where the shore met the lake (in the center of the image), as opposed to the horizon of the trees against the sky (near the top of the image) - the latter which the seems to be the best guess of the hyperfocal distance (without doing the calculations) but it also seems very contrary to my instinct for a focal point..

Thank you.

Chrsitina

I hope/think that many people will come into this thread with their ideas.

But the first one I'd jump in with relates to:


What you read is true. But the thing you need to get an understanding of is, I suggest, Hyperfocal Distance. Have a read of the tutorial here on CiC. Just go to the 'Tutorials' pages and scroll down.

I am a strong advocate of the use of hyperfocal distance. Others don't rate it as highly. But, whether you become a disciple or not, I think it's useful to understand what it's about.

[Donald]

... but it also seems very contrary to my instinct for a focal point..

I agree. It does. I operate on what I term common sense and this is underpinned by science. Me & science don't go well together, but hyperfocal distance is one of those things that I think is really important for landscape photographers.

Far be it from me to suggest that there are any tutorials out there that are anywhere near as good as what you can find on CiC, but .........! I found this one when I was trying to learn and found it very straightforward and helpful.

[Brownbear]

Thank you Donald. Truly appreciated. I will try it next time around.

By the way all the tutorials here are wonderful, and I can't wait to buy the Cambridge in Colour book(s) when they come out.

I agree. It does. I operate on what I term common sense and this is underpinned by science. Me & science don't go well together, but hyperfocal distance is one of those things that I think is really important for landscape photographers.

Far be it from me to suggest that there are any tutorials out there that are anywhere near as good as what you can find on CiC, but .........! I found this one when I was trying to learn and found it very straightforward and helpful.

[Mike Buckley]

If I remember correctly, Donald's camera does not have Live View and I am certain that Christina's camera does. So, Christina, the easiest thing for you to do if you are using a tripod is to start with an aperture of f/8 or f/11 and then manually focus using Live View. Magnify the image in the scene at least to two "clicks" shy of the highest magnification and scroll the image to review for sharpness. When something that is near or far in the scene is not tack sharp, change your focusing ring and re-examine all areas of the scene.

By the way, one reason not to use the smallest aperture is because diffraction will usually occur. Diffraction works contrary to your goal of achieving maximum sharpness. So, your best bet is to use the sharpest range of the lens's aperture settings, which is usually the middle settings of about f/5.6 to f/11, depending on the lens, so long as the aperture in that range also allows everything to be in focus that you want in focus.

I'm not suggesting that understanding hyperfocal distance is unimportant; understanding the concept is very important. However, it was especially important in the days when cameras did not have Live View and when markings on the lenses made it easy to set a particular lens to the hyperfocal distance. Many lenses today, especially zooms, do not provide the luxury of those markings. In the days prior to using Live View, those markings were closer to a necessity than a luxury.

[Mike Buckley]

1. For landscapes in the forests what time of day is best for lighting? Later in the morning when the sun is out or perhaps nearer to sunset?

I hope the early-rising landscape experts will address various kinds of topograhpy. The rising and setting sun is completely different when dealing with a flat horizon than when dealing with a tall mountain blocking the sun. Sometimes tall mountains block both the rising and setting sun.

[Brownbear]

Hi Mike,

Thank you for your very helpful and thoughtful reply. I don't have live view in my camera, for sure... but still very helpful.

[Digital]

If I remember correctly, Donald's camera does not have Live View and I am certain that Christina's camera does. So, Christina, the easiest thing for you to do if you are using a tripod is to start with an aperture of f/8 or f/11 and then manually focus using Live View. Magnify the image in the scene at least to two "clicks" shy of the highest magnification and scroll the image to review for sharpness. When something that is near or far in the scene is not tack sharp, change your focusing ring and re-examine all areas of the scene.

By the way, one reason not to use the smallest aperture is because diffraction will usually occur. Diffraction works contrary to your goal of achieving maximum sharpness. So, your best bet is to use the sharpest range of the lens's aperture settings, which is usually the middle settings of about f/5.6 to f/11, depending on the lens, so long as the aperture in that range also allows everything to be in focus that you want in focus.

I'm not suggesting that understanding hyperfocal distance is unimportant; understanding the concept is very important. However, it was especially important in the days when cameras did not have Live View and when markings on the lenses made it easy to set a particular lens to the hyperfocal distance. Many lenses today, especially zooms, do not provide the luxury of those markings. In the days prior to using Live View, those markings were closer to a necessity than a luxury.

Mike, I remember those days. It seem to me that at any given aperture the DOF would range from x feet to infinity.

Bruce

[Mike Buckley]

Christina,

It would be a good idea, if you don't mind, if you would edit the signature of your profile to display the camera(s) that you are using. I thought sure that you were using the Nikon D7100, which most definitely has Live View.

[Brownbear]

Hi Mike,

I will see if I can figure out how to edit my signature, and will do.

Yes, it is a Nikon 7100 that I have, and I looked up live view on someone else s suggestion but couldn't find it. If you say I have it, it likely means I do, so I will check again. Thank you.

Christina,

It would be a good idea, if you don't mind, if you would edit the signature of your profile to display the camera(s) that you are using. I thought sure that you were using the Nikon D7100, which most definitely has Live View.

[James G]

Christina,
wrt blown skies....

There are a number of strategies depending on a number of factors.
1) Yes traditionally you can use a grad filter to balance sky . (Keep in mind that if you are shooting raw, then blinkies can be a bit misleading since you are seeing the camera's best guess at the internally processed jpeg and you should have a bit more room with a raw rendering)

2) you could shoot a bracketed sequence (your camera should have the option), You can then either : -
a) blend the sequence (bit like focus stacking)
b) or load them as layers and selectively brush the sky in.
c) blend using HDR

3) You can also process the raw capture twice, 1st for the sky, then for the landscape, load both copies as layers and use any of the options above for blending. ( I prefer options a/b but have used c pretty often to good effect.)

Conditions really dictate which might be the best way on any particular day...

For instance if its very calm, with little wind, and relatively slow changes to the way the light is developing, just about any technique can be applied.

If however conditions are changing rapidly, I've found bracketing can be pretty effective.

As regards time of day, in some ways it does not matter. I have been many places where I have only had the one chance and the midday, harsh light shot, has been the only option.
If you can plan, then try to work out when the best shadow/contrast is available, and pinpoint where you should in relation to the sun. Trouble is that it does depend on the topology, so, visit, if you can and get a feel for an area before a shoot . There are mapping programmes out there that allow you to simulate the movement of the sun across a terrain, but they are not cheap.

My personal preference is for late afternoon/evening light. I've always found it warmer. But..... In autumn/winter, dawn and early morning frosts with clear skies are spectacular

As regards reflections, I love those perfect mirror shots, but have never got one myself... so can't help you there.

Living in UK I mostly don't have to worry much about dangerous animals..... but have had an interesting encounter with a Red Deer Stag in Richmond Park, London during the rut a year or so back. The B#!@@r was not after me, but I was directly in line when he decided to see off a rival somewhere behind me. Bears..... ferget it.... buy a rocket launcher, but don't forget to get a shot (sorry.... bad pun), of the bear first.... with the landscape in the background

Cold though is an issue, even over here. I use a pair of lightweight ski gloves (the type with the plasticised finger grips, that fit snugly), because once your hands get cold everything becomes a fumble.

As regards shutter speed, the general rules apply if you want to stop all movement, but the in my experience trees and other foliage do not present a problem, unless you are in a gale. Clouds and cloud movement are the more likely issue.

On occasion, with rapidly developing skies, I have shot specifically for the sky first, and then concentrated on the general landscape. Post processing then involved layering and blending.

[Mike Buckley]

Christina,

The Live View is displayed only on the LCD. My guess is that you and your friend were discussing the possibility of displaying Live View in the viewfinder. The discussion of using Live View in your manual begins on page 153.

Magnifying the image while in Live View to evaluate sharpness and focus is not discussed in that part of the manual. My guess is that the same buttons you would use to zoom in and zoom out while reviewing a photo that you have already captured would also serve the same purpose while using Live View. That's how it's done on the D7000 and it's probably the same on the D7100.

[Donald]

If I remember correctly, Donald's camera does not have Live View ...

This man is besmirching the great reputation of that true workhorse, the Canon 40D!!

Seriouly, you're right Mike. Live View is a great aid and learning how to use it to help you is well worth the effort. I use it most of the time when the camera is tripod mounted (which is most of the time).

[Brownbear]

Thank you James for a very helpful reply. I don't have an ND filter yet so I will try multiple exposures and bracketing... new to me but I will look them up and try for next time. I will visit again one afternoon (when it is warmer and yes, I will buy some gloves) and later in the morning.

With respect to your Red Deer story... Sounds like fun. I think I will buy some bear spray, and for now learning how to photograph a landscape is enough for me but I will try for the bear in the background.

Good to know that about foliage (my trees are very soft so likely my aperture choice, as I did use a tripod) and I would never have guessed that the movement of clouds could be an issue.

Thank you.

Christina,
wrt blown skies....

There are a number of strategies depending on a number of factors.
1) Yes traditionally you can use a grad filter to balance sky . (Keep in mind that if you are shooting raw, then blinkies can be a bit misleading since you are seeing the camera's best guess at the internally processed jpeg and you should have a bit more room with a raw rendering)

2) you could shoot a bracketed sequence (your camera should have the option), You can then either : -
a) blend the sequence (bit like focus stacking)
b) or load them as layers and selectively brush the sky in.
c) blend using HDR

3) You can also process the raw capture twice, 1st for the sky, then for the landscape, load both copies as layers and use any of the options above for blending. ( I prefer options a/b but have used c pretty often to good effect.)

Conditions really dictate which might be the best way on any particular day...

For instance if its very calm, with little wind, and relatively slow changes to the way the light is developing, just about any technique can be applied.

If however conditions are changing rapidly, I've found bracketing can be pretty effective.

As regards time of day, in some ways it does not matter. I have been many places where I have only had the one chance and the midday, harsh light shot, has been the only option.
If you can plan, then try to work out when the best shadow/contrast is available, and pinpoint where you should in relation to the sun. Trouble is that it does depend on the topology, so, visit, if you can and get a feel for an area before a shoot . There are mapping programmes out there that allow you to simulate the movement of the sun across a terrain, but they are not cheap.

My personal preference is for late afternoon/evening light. I've always found it warmer. But..... In autumn/winter, dawn and early morning frosts with clear skies are spectacular

As regards reflections, I love those perfect mirror shots, but have never got one myself... so can't help you there.

Living in UK I mostly don't have to worry much about dangerous animals..... but have had an interesting encounter with a Red Deer Stag in Richmond Park, London during the rut a year or so back. The B#!@@r was not after me, but I was directly in line when he decided to see off a rival somewhere behind me. Bears..... ferget it.... buy a rocket launcher, but don't forget to get a shot (sorry.... bad pun), of the bear first.... with the landscape in the background

Cold though is an issue, even over here. I use a pair of lightweight ski gloves (the type with the plasticised finger grips, that fit snugly), because once your hands get cold everything becomes a fumble.

As regards shutter speed, the general rules apply if you want to stop all movement, but the in my experience trees and other foliage do not present a problem, unless you are in a gale. Clouds and cloud movement are the more likely issue.

On occasion, with rapidly developing skies, I have shot specifically for the sky first, and then concentrated on the general landscape. Post processing then involved layering and blending.

[Brownbear]

Hi Mike,

Your guess is correct.

Thank you for advising. I will read up on it and try it the very first opportunity I have.

Christina,

The Live View is displayed only on the LCD. My guess is that you and your friend were discussing the possibility of displaying Live View in the viewfinder. The discussion of using Live View in your manual begins on page 153.

Magnifying the image while in Live View to evaluate sharpness and focus is not discussed in that part of the manual. My guess is that the same buttons you would use to zoom in and zoom out while reviewing a photo that you have already captured would also serve the same purpose while using Live View. That's how it's done on the D7000 and it's probably the same on the D7100.

[Mike Buckley]

This man is besmirching the great reputation of that true workhorse, the Canon 40D!!

Actually, I was thinking that you make such great photos using a camera that I thought was many generations old. Now that I realize that you're using state-of-the-art technology, I also realize that it's the technology, not you, that is creating those amazing photos.

[Donald]

Actually, I was thinking that you make such great photos using a camera that I thought was many generations old. Now that I realize that you're using state-of-the-art technology, I also realize that it's the technology, not you, that is creating those amazing photos.

Touché.