A Couple of Love Birds

[Brownbear]

Yesterday, I headed out early intending to try some landscape shots but it was super foggy and while I did try a few, these two swans caught my attention.

I read this after the fact...

https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tu...hotography.htm

I like these shots and would appreciate some C&C especially on post processing, as I have quite a few and I'm not sure how I should approach post processing. I processed in LR and felt the best representation was to pull the white slider to the right (for a true white) and the black slider to the left for a true black, but didn't go all the way with either as they didn't seem right. Then I sharpened just the swan and added some clarity but not too much because it seemed to make the swan yellowish. Then I lifted the bottom part of the curves tool just a wee bit to lighten the swan a bit.

Love is in the air



Fishing for his mate



Fun with Swans



For the first two images I used Auto WB and for the 3rd image I used Cloudy WB... I'm thinking that the water is too grey in the 3rd image but with Auto WB or clicking on the swan with the WB tool the swan seemed too yellow...

Thank you.

[Mike Buckley]

The subject of the first one complements the mood created by the fog best for me. It's a shame that you clipped the tail.

In that first one, select the necks and heads. Apply an S-curve and Local Contrast Enhancement to bring out the detail. Then increase the saturation slightly (only in the selected area). See if you like it.

I would also crop to eliminate most of the negative space on the left.

[Brownbear]

Hi Mike,

Thank you. I will use this one as a guideline for the others as I look through them.

I will try your suggestion later today or tomorrow. Thank you for sharing.

Can you explain why you like the mood of this fog? And also why this one has too much negative space on the left. I don't think I understand the concept of negative space. Yup, that means two tutorials for me today.

The subject of the first one complements the mood created by the fog best for me. It's a shame that you clipped the tail.

In that first one, select the necks and heads. Apply an S-curve and Local Contrast Enhancement to bring out the detail. Then increase the saturation slightly (only in the selected area). See if you like it.

I would also crop to eliminate most of the negative space on the left.

[Donald]

I would also crop to eliminate most of the negative space on the left.

I definitely go with that. I think there is a really good 1:1 (square) image hiding in there.

I read this after the fact...

https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tu...hotography.htm

Hopefully, what you got, Christina, was an understanding about the power of low contrast in an image and the fact that this, more than anything, is what fog contributes to image-making. And not only do you not get, but you do not want, anything sitting right at the left and right of the histogram. This is about working with the mid-tones and bringing out the subtlety of those.

In his book (that I keep referencing as being my photographic 'bible') 'The Complete Guide to Black & White Digital Photography', ILEX, 2009, Michael Freeman has a chapter called 'The Long Range of Gray ...' in which he highlights the work of Paul Strand and notes that for the majority of his career Strand pulled back from the drama of strongly contrasting images in favour of an approach that emphasised, "... the subtle nuances between gray tones, well distinguished from one another ..."

Freeman suggests that "Whilst there is no satisfactory way of simulating this (platinum printing) in a digital image, the ideal of good separation and a long tonal range can still be pursued.

"When converting (processing) ... it helps the effect not to close up the black and white points, and then to lower the contrast. Visually this forces more attention to the midtones." (p.146).

Try it. In many respects it is counter to so much of received wisdom and what we think is the 'right' thing to do. But, I must admit, it is an approach I pursue strongly in my B & W images. I am much more excited by low contrast than by high contrast.

[NorthernFocus]

Nice shots, Christina. It's hard to compare WB in the last vs. first two because the lighting is different. Did you try using a mask and selectively processing the birds? With the foggy conditions that could make them stand out a bit.

[Brownbear]

Hi Donald,

Yes.

I will try this

"When converting (processing) ... it helps the effect not to close up the black and white points, and then to lower the contrast. Visually this forces more attention to the midtones." (p.146).

Lower contrast would mean a reverse S curve?

Thank you.

Hopefully, what you got, Christina, was an understanding about the power of low contrast in an image and the fact that this. more than anything, is what fog contributes to image-making. And not only do you not get, but you do not want, anything sitting right at the left and right of the histogram. This is about working with the mid-tones and bringing out the subtlety of those.

In his book (that I keep referencing as being my photographic 'bible') 'The Complete Guide to Black & White Digital Photography', ILEX, 2009, Michael Freeman has a chapter called 'The Long Range of Gray ...' in which he highlights the work of Paul Strand and notes that for the majority of his career he pulled back from the drama of strongly contrasting images in favour of an approach that emphasised, "... the subtle nuances between gray tones, well distinguished from one another ..."

Freeman suggests that "Whilst there is no satisfactory way of simulating this (platinum printing) in a digital image, the ideal of good separation and a long tonal range can still be pursued.

"When converting (processing) ... it helps the effect not to close up the black and white points, and then to lower the contrast. Visually this forces more attention to the midtones." (p.146).

Try it. In many respects it is counter to so much of received wisdom and what we think is the 'right' thing to do. But, I must admit, it is an approach I pursue strongly in my B & W images. I am much more excited by low contrast than by high contrast.

[Donald]

Lower contrast would mean a reverse S curve?

Indeed it does.

[Brownbear]

Thank you Dan.

Yes, the lighting is different. Actually different swan and locale... Is the background too grey?

In LR I selectively sharpened and added clarity to just the birds. I do have Elements, and hardly any experience with layers but I will try if you think it would help... Are you saying just put a layer over the birds and sharpen and add clarity? Plus what Mike suggested?

Thank you.

PS Everyone... Minimalistic photos have tons of negative space, so why does the negative space not work here?

I'm running out the door but will check back later. Thank you.

Nice shots, Christina. It's hard to compare WB in the last vs. first two because the lighting is different. Did you try using a mask and selectively processing the birds? With the foggy conditions that could make them stand out a bit.

[Digital]

Christina, I like your composition in images #2, and #3. On image #1 the space on the left does not contribute to your subjects of the swans. As Mike suggested I would crop it.


Bruce

[Mike Buckley]

The reasons the negative space in the first photo doesn't work for me...

Negative space needs to add information (in its own way) and this negative space doesn't do that. Consider the example of a dog looking to the left. The negative space to the left not only provides the information about the area the dog is looking into but it also "gives room" for the dog to look in that direction.

In this photo, the negative space on the left means that the necks and heads of the two swans are almost in the middle of the image. That makes that aspect of the image static.

Ironically, if you crop to make a square image or something similar as Donald suggested, the top right quadrant will be entirely negative space. That space will then add vital information: the texture in the water disappearing in the mist and the information that the swans are alone, which complements their loving pose.

The subject of the first photo complements the fog better than the other subjects for me because the scene is peaceful. The other two subjects are in a moment of agitation that contradicts the peacefulness that I associate with the mist.

[Mike Buckley]

The reverse S-curve is not the only method of lowering contrast and the curve that you use to do so will depend primarily on the tones that are in the image to begin with. Remember that when you apply a reverse S-curve, you are mapping many of the tones on the left side of the scale to a brighter luminosity. Similarly, you are mapping many of the tones on the right side of the scale to a darker luminosity. If the original tones are mapped as you like them, you would not want to dramatically remap them.

Sometimes, again depending on the original tones in the image, you can slightly lower or raise a portion of the curve to reduce the overall impression of contrast.

When most photographers refer to increasing or decreasing the contrast, they are usually referring to increasing or decreasing the contrast of the mid tones. That's because making that adjustment is usually the easiest way to change the impression of the overall contrast of the entire image.

That leads to the next extremely important point that was a real eye-opener when it was explained to me years ago: When working with the tone curve, the part of the curve that is closest to vertical represents the range of tones in the image that has the most contrast.

So, when you apply a standard S-curve, the part of the curve representing the mid tones is also the part that is closest to vertical. A typical reverse S-curve results in exactly the opposite: the part representing the mid tones is nearly horizontal and, thus, has the least contrast of all tonal ranges in the image. Remembering that the contrast or lack of contrast in the mid tones often has the most impact on the viewer when it comes to perceiving overall contrast, it is easy to appreciate why using a reverse S-curve results in an image that we often say has little contrast.

However, when applying a reverse S-curve, notice that the darkest and brightest tones (the tones other than the mid tones) are represented in the curve by the most vertical parts of the curve. Thus, while a reverse S-curve lowers the contrast in the mid tones, it increases the contrast in the darkest and brightest tones. My point is that we need to pay attention to how all of the tones in an image are mapped when we apply a curve, not just the mid tones.

Last, applying a curve, regardless of its shape, is all too often used by photographers exclusively to affect the entire image. A whole new world of control over your image is dropped into the palm of your hand holding the mouse once you begin changing the curve of a selected area. That's because you can control the contrast of that particular area in a much more precise method than simply using a Contrast slider. Indeed, my photo of the crashing wave that shows so much detail in the wave was adjusted by selecting many different areas of the wave and applying a different curve to each area.

Sorry for the long post!

[jprzybyla]

I think you have something special to work on in these images. A good challenge for your post processing. Seeing these I am heading to Lake Morton the next foggy morning. Many times when working on the tones in images such as these I will switch the image to black and white, once I have that pleasing then I switch back to color.

[Brownbear]

Thank you Donald, Bruce, Mike and Joe for your replies, confirmations and suggestions. Very helpful and truly appreciated.

Mike... A very special thank you for the detailed explanation of the use of negative space and why and when it works for you, or not. It has given me lots of new things to think about. Also thank you very much for the explanation on curves and contrast tools. I am going to print this one out as I will have to read it a few times to digest it fully. Indeed I'm very fortunate that you took the time to provide me with such a detailed and informative reply. Thank you.

Joe... Thank you. Yes, indeed a big challenge for my post processing skills. I will try your suggestion.

Thank you to all. I will work on an image or two tomorrow and post once I figure all this out. It might take me longer than a day to figure out, but I will post as soon as I do.

Thank you.

[Hui Song]

Christina, can't wait to see how your picture turn out after you work on them again. This thread is like a tutorial for me. I read every word in it. I have some swan pictures taken at a lake near my home. It seams I need start my post editing homework now.

Donald, I just ordered your photographic 'bible' online. Thanks.

[Bobobird]

#1 for me Christina. What a lovely pose...

[Brownbear]

Hi Hui,

It's always nice to hear that others learn from my questions. Just FYI...this thread is like a tutorial for me, too.

Right now I'm trying to figure out in my mind the best way to adjust the midtones in the curve and how that will effect contrast. Donald I was re-read all the replies last night and are you saying when I try this I should just leave the white and black points as photographed?

Thank you Bobo.

[Wavelength]

Nice images; i like the second and third images more. In the first image the tail of the bird moves out of the frame a bit

Regards

[Wavelength]

Nice images; i like the second and third images more. In the first image the tail of the bird moves out of the frame a bit

Regards

[Suzan J]

Awww.. I really do like # 1. I agree that this thread makes an excellent tutorial. Good luck with the post processing!

[TonyW]

I like the first image best. The colours and contrast seem just right. I like the negative space on the left except that to my eyes it needs to be balanced by a bit more on the right.