A Couple of Love Birds

[Brownbear]

Following are my edits, including a couple more for the exercise.


I processed these images in Lightroom 4 and tried to keep the low contrast in the original image by not moving the white and black points too much. However, I did move them a little, ranging from 10-20 on each side because moving these points brought out more detail in the swan. I also decreased the clarity in one of the photos on the entire image because it definitely decreased the contrast and made for an artsy feel.

Next I selectively sharpened just the swans by 25%. Selective clarity ranging in amounts of 10-20%.

I also selectively burned the bottom whiter portion of the swans by 30 (burning) to try and bring out more detail. Following Mikes wave example, albeit I don't think I did it well, ie; looks processed.

Next I added a reverse S curve which decreased the contrast of the entire image (In LR you can't apply curves to select portions) To do this I pulled the bottom portion of the curves line up (lightens the shadows and darks) and I pulled the top portion of the line down. (darkens the highlights and the light tones)

For others just learning the standard S curve used to increase contrast is created by pulling up the top of the line up (lightens the highlights and light tones) and pulling down the bottom of the line (darkens the darks and the shadows)

For factual information see https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tu...hop-curves.htm

I played around in each colour channel to see if I could fine-tune the midtones, red, green and blue with the curves tool but honestly I didn't know what to do as I don't have enough experience or even a good feel for what the mid-tones should look like. Indeed my images were turning red, green and blue, and it is obvious that a gentle hand is needed when using the curves tool. Switching the image to B&W as suggested by Joe was helpful to see if my image looked normal in B&W but once I returned to the colour version I was lost.

I cropped many of the images to the square size as suggested, and the crop looks odd to me likely because it cropping in a square is new to me.

I re-sized the images to 1200 pixels for posting and applied an unsharp mask in Elements 9. I also denoised lightly because the fog seemed really noisy (perhaps due to my playing with the curves tool) and that might of been a mistake as I lost detail.

As suggested by Mike I selected just the swans in the Love Bird pose, and applied some local contrast enhancement. I also tried to use the curves tool to play with the mid-tones in my selection but the curves tool in Elements 9 does not allow one to work with separate colour channels, and it just has sliders for adjustments. I can see and understand the immense benefits of selective adjustments but my skills are not there yet. The hardest part for me (aside from figuring out what to do with the red,blue and green colour channels) was selecting around the swan with finesse. I can't seem to do it well, it takes me forever and I can still see my selection lines even though I do it while viewing at 100%. I expect that with practice and experience it becomes a lot easier to do it well.

I'm still learning to post process, and would say I'm add the beginner-plus level, so just use my example as an experiment to try. I'm sure someone will jump in to correct anything that I state that is incorrect or confusing.


1-1 must of played with the green tones



#2-2 (Same image as above) Any preference?




#3-3



#4-4 Lots of negative space.. Does it work?



#5-5 Love Birds cropped square with selective LCE

[Dusty]

They look totally lost and you have made them worse, it as if you have put vaseline over the lens. Image 3 & 4 there is to much space above their heads.
Dave.

[Brownbear]

Hi Dave,

Thank you for your honesty. Truly appreciated as it is important that I learn how to post process well. Perhaps this was just a little too much for me all at once.

Also thanks for the commenting on the negative space... yet another I have to learn about.

They look totally lost and you have made them worse, it as if you have put vaseline over the lens. Image 3 & 4 there is to much space above their heads.
Dave.

[Mike Buckley]

All of these crops are far superior to your first photo. Well done!

I'm not sure how I can be of help with the other post-processing issues but I'll try...

The most important suggestion I can make is that you use a highly regimental approach that takes one step at a time. You're posting multiple images that involve several changes, so there is no way for us to respond about whether or not a particular change is an improvement. I highly recommend that you limit your threads to posting one image and trying to improve on that one and only that one. Otherwise, you and we will get confused.

The second most important suggestion I can make is that you need to spend time developing your own sense of what looks good to you. Doing so requires taking the time to review other people's images, hopefully the great masters, as opposed for the most part to people including myself posting here. It really doesn't matter whether any of the above images look good to us; it only matters whether they look good to you.

Beyond that, you mentioned that you made some selective adjustments and then some global adjustments. My understanding is that the best practice is to make the global adjustments first and to then follow them up with selective adjustments. There are always the rare exceptions to best practices, but they are rare. In the above photos, I think you would have been served better to stick to the best practice.

[Brownbear]

Thanks for your feedback Mike... It is nice to hear that you think my crops are improved, so that is a first step.

1. Yes, good idea I guess I just thought I would try a bunch of them all at once as a learning exercise.

2. Yes, I agree.

3. Thank you for letting me know.

For anyone reading this processing raw photos is also new to me, so perhaps fog and processing raw photos, and curves all combined was just too much for me. I think I will go back to jpegs and raw so I have a guideline to follow.

Thank you to everyone for your help. I learned a lot, so when I'm ready for something like this again, no doubt it will be easier the next time around.

[Brownbear]

Hi Mike,

I just burned dinner... Anyway...

Image #1 and Image #5-5 are the same.

In 5-5 I did not stretch the white and black points as far (to make it as less contrasty as possible with the histogram mostly in the middle), applied a reverse S curve, selectively sharpened in LR and cropped.

Then in Elements 9 I add LCE to just the swans, did light noise reduction, and sharpened with an unsharp mask.

In the original I stretched the white and black points further, sharpened and added clarity to the swans and lightened the shadows with the curves tool... Just a wee smidge, far less than on 5-5. ie; I likely did not lower the contrast.

Is there anything obviously wrong with my steps on 5-5?

Thank you.

All of these crops are far superior to your first photo. Well done!

I'm not sure how I can be of help with the other post-processing issues but I'll try...

The most important suggestion I can make is that you use a highly regimental approach that takes one step at a time. You're posting multiple images that involve several changes, so there is no way for us to respond about whether or not a particular change is an improvement. I highly recommend that you limit your threads to posting one image and trying to improve on that one and only that one. Otherwise, you and we will get confused.

The second most important suggestion I can make is that you need to spend time developing your own sense of what looks good to you. Doing so requires taking the time to review other people's images, hopefully the great masters, as opposed for the most part to people including myself posting here. It really doesn't matter whether any of the above images look good to us; it only matters whether they look good to you.

Beyond that, you mentioned that you made some selective adjustments and then some global adjustments. My understanding is that the best practice is to make the global adjustments first and to then follow them up with selective adjustments. There are always the rare exceptions to best practices, but they are rare. In the above photos, I think you would have been served better to stick to the best practice.

[TonyW]

I think that in these pictures the ripples on the water are very important. In 2-2 the ripples are cut off on the left and the image has an unbalanced feel. In 4-4 there is dead space on the right, which I don't mind, but strictly speaking none on the left. In 5-5 there is a lovely feeling of intimacy but I still would not mind a very slightly wider crop.

Overall I think these are very nice images and I wish I could do as well.

[Brownbear]

Thank you for your feedback Tony... Truly appreciated and helpful.

I have the raw images which I will revisit after I finish all my Lightroom tutorials.

I think that in these pictures the ripples on the water are very important. In 2-2 the ripples are cut off on the left and the image has an unbalanced feel. In 4-4 there is dead space on the right, which I don't mind, but strictly speaking none on the left. In 5-5 there is a lovely feeling of intimacy but I still would not mind a very slightly wider crop.

Overall I think these are very nice images and I wish I could do as well.

[Mike Buckley]

I just burned dinner

Been there. Done that. Got the tee-shirt. A good glass of wine makes the problem disappear.

I compared images 1 and 5-5 side-by-side using my cataloging software. Everything about image 1 is far better for me except that I prefer the crop of image 5-5.

In 5-5 I did not stretch the white and black points as far (to make it as less contrasty as possible with the histogram mostly in the middle)

You began with an image that had little contrast. Perhaps you had no need to address that. Aside from that, the black and white points has more to do with apparent dynamic range than contrast. Be sure to wrap your arms around the difference between dynamic range and contrast.

I gather that you might not have digested the meanings of the X and Y axis of the Curve tool. (The Levels tool is actually part of the Curve tool, as everything that is adjusted by the Curve tool affects the Levels tool and vise versa.) It's important for you to understand the data presented in those two axis (is "axis" the plural of "axis"?)

applied a reverse S curve

Why? What aspect of the original image was to be improved by applying a reverse S-curve. My point is that you should never make an adjustment until you have determined a characteristic in the image that requires you to make a change to meet your goal.

Then in Elements 9 I add LCE to just the swans, did light noise reduction

Never ever apply any form of sharpening including LCE before doing noise reduction. When you sharpen first, you're sharpening the noise.

[Brownbear]

Thank you Mike... I will revisit all of your points, dynamic range and contrast, and yes I have mixed up a few things, and forgot about Levels in the Curves tool.

I presumed incorrectly from Donald's discussion of low contrast images that lower contrast would be better.

Thanks for the tip on LCE... Peppermint ice cream for dinner is my absolute favourite, not my husband's but oh well, all in the spirit of learning

Been there. Done that. Got the tee-shirt. A good glass of wine makes the problem disappear.

I compared images 1 and 5-5 side-by-side using my cataloging software. Everything about image 1 is far better for me except that I prefer the crop of image 5-5.



You began with an image that had little contrast. Perhaps you had no need to address that. Aside from that, the black and white points has more to do with apparent dynamic range than contrast. Be sure to wrap your arms around the difference between dynamic range and contrast.

I gather that you might not have digested the meanings of the X and Y axis of the Curve tool. (The Levels tool is actually part of the Curve tool, as everything that is adjusted by the Curve tool affects the Levels tool and vise versa.) It's important for you to understand the data presented in those two axis (is "axis" the plural of "axis"?)



Why? What aspect of the original image was to be improved by applying a reverse S-curve. My point is that you should never make an adjustment until you have determined a characteristic in the image that requires you to make a change to meet your goal.



Never ever apply any form of sharpening including LCE before doing noise reduction. When you sharpen first, you're sharpening the noise.

[Loose Canon]

Not to confuse the issue Christina, but I think a couple of these would make outstanding candidates for high-key mono-chromatic greyscales.

I wonder if Donald had that in mind in his first post?

[Mike Buckley]

I think a couple of these would make outstanding candidates for high-key mono-chromatic greyscales.

This probably isn't as much of a high-key interpretation as Terry is thinking, but...

Step 1: Cropped the first image.
Step 2: Added local contrast enhancement to parts of the birds
Step 3: Converted to black-and-white by filtering a yellow-green hue
Step 4: Adjusted the curve to brighten the image and raise the black point. Even so, there is nothing close to a true black.
Step 5: Applied a very slight vignette.

[Donald]

I presumed incorrectly from Donald's discussion of low contrast images that lower contrast would be better.

It's all about trying it and seeing until you build up the experience that allows you to 'know' (although you never really do) in your head just what's going to work best. I think I'd go with Mike and say the processing in the first one is stronger, with the levels of contrast being just right. My apologies if I misled and indicated that I thought the contrast had to be even lower.

Not to confuse the issue Christina, but I think a couple of these would make outstanding candidates for high-key mono-chromatic greyscales.

I wonder if Donald had that in mind in his first post?

No, that wasn't what I was thinking. I once went for a very high key image of a swan. It's here. But I didn't see these as being candidates for that.

[Loose Canon]

The high key image of Donald's swan is what actually came to mind. An image I truly admire.

Not as much time spent on this as it deserves but enough for a theory.

[Donald]

That works really, really well. I hadn't 'seen' that at all in the image that Christina posted. I like this.

[Loose Canon]

Thank you Donald but you were the Inspiration.

And Christina's beautiful swans in that dreamscape fog are a great catalyst.

[Brownbear]

Hi Donald,

Thank you for sharing. It is I who misinterpreted your reply, and indeed it was a very good lesson for me. I was just frustrated because I did the curves tutorial on C&C (likely for the 4th time), did two lightroom tutorials on Curves, and read a chapter in a book on curves, and I thought I had figured it out... And then I worked very hard on my images only to mess them up... I forgot that Levels was also included in the curves tool in LR... So all in all a good lesson for me... Post processing reminds me of organic chemistry in that I seem to have some kind of mental block about it.

For the record I will keep shooting raw... I post processed all my horses just fine.... It is just the fog that has thrown me for a loop.

I learned a lot. Thank you.

It's all about trying it and seeing until you build up the experience that allows you to 'know' (although you never really do) in your head just what's going to work best. I think I'd go with Mike and say the processing in the first one is stronger, with the levels of contrast being just right. My apologies if I misled and indicated that I thought the contrast had to be even lower.


No, that wasn't what I was thinking. I once went for a very high key image of a swan. It's here. But I didn't see these as being candidates for that.

[Brownbear]

Mike can you possibly help me with this statement...

I gather that you might not have digested the meanings of the X and Y axis of the Curve tool. (The Levels tool is actually part of the Curve tool, as everything that is adjusted by the Curve tool affects the Levels tool and vise versa.) It's important for you to understand the data presented in those two axis (is "axis" the plural of "axis"?)

I did some more reading last night and I can see that I was also fiddling with levels... When I am using curves only in LR (not the separate colour channels in RGB) what is the difference between pulling down the very top part of the line versus the point on the first intersection on the top right hand corner, and pulling up the very bottom of the line versus the point on the first intersection on the bottom left hand corner.

Here is my image reworked. All I did was hit auto WB, selectively sharpen the swan and add some clarity, move the white and black points a little further but not too much. Pulled the very top of the line Highlights -28 and the bottom of the line shadows +11. A wee bit of noise reduction to despeckle the air and LCE in Elements.

How is this one?

[Brownbear]

Hi Terry,

Thank you so much for showing me this. I adore this look, so much so that I will have to try it. I don't have a clue how you did it but I will look it up.

Mike, thank you for also showing me a version of a high key image. I prefer Terry's version because it is soft and dreamy. But truly appreciated, and I will try this later. Right now it is foggy so I am going to try and find my swans and try again.

Thank you.

The high key image of Donald's swan is what actually came to mind. An image I truly admire.

Not as much time spent on this as it deserves but enough for a theory.

[Mike Buckley]

Great eye and post-processing, Terry! I didn't see that image as a candidate for a high-key monochrome and it works perfectly, far better than the photo that I chose.