Landscapes and White Balance

[Ned Ward]

One of the things I like to do is experiment with methods that other use or recommend.

Here's a couple of seascapes that I took about 30 exposures of over an evening till sunset. I used different in camera WB settings from cloudy to overcast, auto to dialled in k values. Each one gave different colour rendition and emphasis. Please feel free to give honest comment/critique, they are very different finishes but done in camera and not by some extreme PS shenanigans.

[Ned Ward]

[IMG]

[Manfred M]

but done in camera and not by some extreme PS shenanigans.

If you want to get technical about it, you are doing extreme in-camera shenanigans; using different white balance settings to give you different effects. It really makes no difference where you do this; in post or in-camera.

Sunset shots are mixed light images, so whatever you like is okay; there is no right or wrong answer here. I personally prefer the textures in the clouds in your first image; they are quite interesting. If it were my shot, I would probably look at different crops in post.

[NorthernFocus]

If you want to get technical about it, you are doing extreme in-camera shenanigans...

You beat me to it...

[Donald]

As Manfred says, there is no right or wrong here. It's all about your artistic interpretation of the scene in front of you. Your picture should be your vision of the scene as experienced by you. Something that merely records what was there could be done by a well-trained member of the ape family. Making a picture that conveys what the photographer felt at the time of capture is an option only open to humans.

So, go out there, try every setting that it's possible to try. Find out what's possible; what you can achieve. Out of that will come your vision for the sorts of images you want to make.

[Stagecoach]

If I had a scene like that to photograph I would rather spend my time taking shots with different perspectives and positions than spend it fiddling with a setting in camera that can be dealt with later in post at no detriment to the image quality.

[Karm Redland]

Hi Andy. No need to play with in camera white balance. Take a single picture with white balance set on auto. During processing you can play with an infinite number of white balance settings.

karm

[Ned Ward]

Manfred,Dan, Donald, many thanks for your thoughts. I used the term extreme probably wrongly, although it is an accusation levelled at me from other forums of which i have passed through many.

The age old and futile "what I saw " or "not natural" argument that so called purists use you probably are all aware of. My retort has been I'm glad my images are not what I saw, as they would all be blurred round the frame and known as peripheral vision.

Also there would be no room for BW photography.

The nature of photons and modern cameras means they record more than we can see anyhow.

My mantra is a borrowed term " Beauty is bought by judgement of the eye" Bill shakespeare, so as long as its aesthetically acceptable to me, or fulfils and "end use" brief, its Kosher.

But its always interesting to here the view of others, what I actually saw on that evening is not known to me. The redder image contains the awe and passion I felt witnessing that beautiful sunset.

The textured clouds were through slow exposure smudging them as they moved across the sensor.

Cheers
Ned

[Ned Ward]

Grahame,
No fiddling needed its an easy setting to change and the spot I picked was due to local knowledge but I can see your point, how do you know I didn't use different perspectives?

Thanks for taking time to comment
Cheers
Ned

[Ned Ward]

Karm, very true, but you can't see them till you get home and then it could be too late.
Obliged for you taking time to view and comment.
Regards
Ned

[NorthernFocus]

... Please feel free to give honest comment/critique, they are very different finishes...

As usual, level headed Donald is the only one thus far who provided any useful feedback as requested. The rest of us simply rose to the lure of the SOOC vs PP topic.

So in the spirit of meaningful reply, I would repeat Donald's comments.

The real question is which version best represents what you either remember or are trying to convey with the imagery?

[Stagecoach]

Dan,

What you must also consider is that some feedback takes into account previous feedback by others and does not feel the need to repeat what is obvious.

[Ned Ward]

Its all good feedback. Why, well even if you don't comment on the images or production methods etc. etc. you tell me something about you. Photography has so many facets, its a journey for me and communicating with other people who engage in it is part of it. I also have no illusion about my standard.

I have the luxury of not having to make a living from photography so i can indulge myself. I think many loose their way in as much as if you don't visualise an end use for your imagery then its easy to become defensive or over technical or narcissistic. What does the client require is a good motivator. I like hearing the view of others it all helps me learn. There is no right or wrong in any of it, there are conventions and expected norms. If you want to be a good butterfly photographer there are conventions and expectations (all the beast in focus for example) or for portraits the eyes need to be in focus. I know this is a broad generalisation but you may get my drift.
So for me I learn what the rules are and ignore adhere or amend to suit my purpose.
The WB post in my experience always generates some sort of oblique debate that ranges from sell your camera mate to a more considered opinion (in my view) like Donalds.
The intention behind the images I submitted were to experiment in camera with the settings, ask peoples opinions, enjoy the ones I like and compare wb on this scene with un manipulated images taken by my wife. We also had a picnic and I took many golden hour shots from the same spot and close by of different things. The light was exciting when it arrived and the redder image captures my awe at such a beautiful occurrence.
What was interesting was that unadulterated images from my wives Konica Minolta were not a million miles away from the first colourful image here where I set the wb to cloudy. My second image here was auto wb.
I like the first one. Also I did a panorama at cloudy wb and then in raw process auto levelled which changed the colours and gave a different feel. The technocrats will say you can do all that from 1 image, that science is science. They are wrong. There are many variables and unless you can measure each variable exactly you can't predict the outcome. Another thing is perception, we all live in a virtual reality. Close your eyes and think of the colour red. Did you think of a post office red or was it more a cerise? But we all know what red is don't we. It feels like some of the responses were people seeing red rather than saying whether they liked what I posted or not. I don't recall asking whether what I'd done was right or wrong ?
Many thanks for your participation it all helps.
Cheers
Ned
p.s. I did say in my hello statement that I go on a bit

[Ned Ward]

Here's a shot taken just before the red one maybe 20 minutes before. Same spot looking 90 degrees right. Its the best image i've taken of 2 herons and a cormorant!

Cheers
Ned

[rpcrowe]

Andy, I agree with my friends above. In a sunset situation or with mixed lighting, there is no such thing as correct color. Correct color is what you enjoy...

[NorthernFocus]

Its all good feedback. Why, well even if you don't comment on the images or production methods etc. etc. you tell me something about you....

Clearly

... I think many loose their way in as much as if you don't visualise an end use for your imagery then its easy to become defensive or over technical or narcissistic.... I like hearing the view of others it all helps me learn. There is no right or wrong in any of it....The WB post in my experience always generates some sort of oblique debate.... The technocrats will say you can do all that from 1 image, that science is science. They are wrong...It feels like some of the responses were people seeing red rather than saying whether they liked what I posted or not....

Such a paradoxical mix of seemingly open minded inquiry and definitive judgmental statements. Me thinks we have many entertaining posts coming from thee in future...

[Ned Ward]

Hi Richard, thanks for taking time to view and comment. Please forgive me but I didn't ask whether there was a right colour for sunsets. Maybe you only read what what your friends have written and haven't bothered to read my words or pictures?
Cheers
Ned

[Karm Redland]

Hi Ned. If I'm wrong in what about to say then please correct me. I shoot in raw -- I don't believe you said whether you're shooting in raw or something else. If you shoot in raw then you can always manipulate white balance at your computer. Whatever you achieve through your camera's white balance command structure I can achieve at my computer. If I'm correct, then why bother fiddling with your camera's white balance? Set it on auto and concentrate on really important things like composition.

In fact, taking all of this a bit further, software post processing can fix every problem except a lousy composition, being out-of-focus, or black and white blowouts.

Just a closing note, I like the way you colored the first of your images.

karm

[Ned Ward]

Hi Dan, I will try to entertain, we,re agreed this photography thing isn,t painting by numbers then? There is a feeling in my water that I have got off on the wrong foot, seems some folk are giving me answers to questions I didn't ask? I was looking for thoughts on some images I submitted not seeking approval for experimentation or a colour chart for acceptable sunsets.
Regards
Ned

[Ned Ward]

Karm, I shoot Raw, if you have never tried my experimentation what makes you think you know you can "fix" things in your computer. There were 2 cameras on site that evening, the results were similar with 1 set on auto and 1 set on cloudy as you'd expect. But the cloudy set image when put through auto wb in the computer post shooting returned different colours. To the auto image and the cloudy set image, do you know why? I do.
Let me start again. Do you have any comment about the images rather than method of production?
Regards
Ned