Learning Landscapes - Another Try

[Stagecoach]

Christina,

So sorry to hear about you lens loss.

Grahame

[Mike Buckley]

I doubt that insurance will cover the loss of the lens but it never hurts to check. Sorry to learn about it.

[Kaye Leggett]

I love the first shot - the fogginess and hint of green work so well together.

[Brownbear]

Thank you Grahame and Mike... Mike unfortunately insurance for my camera is still on my to do list... Actually I got this lens with my D80 which I bought used and inexpensively... So no large financial loss... Still hurts but I'll be better in a day or two.

Thank you Kaye...

[Mike Buckley]

Check your home owner's/renter's insurance just to be completely sure. A separate rider for your camera equipment may not be necessary. If nothing else, the exercise will inform you about the kind of supplemental insurance you do or do not need.

[AB26]

Unfortunately I'm really mad at myself because I lost my 28-200 mm lens.

Hi Christina,

Losing a lens. I can only imagine what it must feel like. Fortunately ladies are allowed to cry about a loss like that, us men just have to bump our heads against a wall.

Andre...

Thank you for taking the time to demonstrate an edit... Truly appreciated and very helpful as I'm trying to learn to post process, and as all my images are raw now instead of jpegs I'm on a huge learning curve. When I try my edit I'm going to follow Allan's tips but if you did something different then him please let me know. I like your edits a lot, they made my images less dreary.

No need to thank me. I need to thank you. My way of learning is to learn from others. These two shots gave me another opportunity to learn from you.

I have no idea what Allan is talking about as I do not use PS, only ACDSee, no layers and other fancy stuff, just sliders and very user friendly for someone like me with limited computer software knowledge. ACDSee seems to be very Nikon friendly.

What I have done in ACDSee you could have done in camera. Push up the contrast and saturation in camera and see what the outcome is. In PP a little tweak here and there with a bit of sharpening and images just start popping. It does work better with RAW files than JPEG files.

You got a good eye for landscapes. Don’t be shy to experiment with spot metering shooting landscapes. Set camera to spot metering in Aperture priority mode. Look in viewfinder and watch the shutter speed change as you point the metering spot to different points trough the dynamic range in the scene. Make a little mental note of highest and lowest shutter speed and take a shot in between the two. See what the result is and adjust exposure compensation accordingly. Do not always let blinkes dictate exposure, you might find scenes where the dynamic range is beyond the reach of your camera.
Tip: when shooting landscapes do not focus to infinity, set focus to just before infinity – if using manual focus.

Keep doing this landscape thing, I think it is good for you.

[AndrewMcD]

I too have been trying to learn to make images of landscapes so I'm enjoying these threads. I came across a book by Michael Frye titled Digital Landscape Photography that I have found interesting. Lots of pictures and discussion of various technical aspects of digital photography in the particular context of landscape photography. A significant portion of the book is dedicated to post processing landscapes. For the novice, such as myself, this book does a very nice job. Not so simplified as to be boring to the enthusiastic novice but rather it pulls together many of the photographic variables and applies them specifically to learning landscape photography. Meanwhile I shall also continue reading the excellent threads on this site and enjoying learning from your progress.
Andrew

[Brownbear]

Thank you Mike, Andre and Andrew

Andre, thank you for sharing your post processing. I will try it when I get to those images. Very interesting about aperture priority... The sunrise I was trying to photograph yesterday had a huge dynamic range and I was pulling my hair out trying to figure out the settings. PS No head banging permitted.

Andrew, thank you for sharing. Sounds like a good book I will look for it in the library. I hope to get to my sunrise photos later today or tomorrow at the latest and I think they will be a good learning example for all.

[Polar01]

Christina: One of the keys to good landscape images where you have that high dynamic range is the GND filter, knock 3 stops off the sky and it is wow time. I use the 4 x 6 GND filters from Lee, often just holding the filter us against the lens and if it is a longer exposure of say 2 or more seconds I will giggle it up and down to help blur the edge. Now the GND filters come in soft edge which were developed originally for mountains as you only wanted to darken down the sky not the mountain itself, there is also the hard edge work better with a defined horizon. The thing about the 4 x 6 size is it lets you position where you want the edge and also works as it will cover the whole image as if it were a standard ND filter. The circular ones work fine however they set the edge in the middle of the image. I would suggest a 3-stop soft 4 x 6 from Lee on because I use them and not having used other makes. I am going to add a link to where I get them in the US they are very good customer service, looked at a Canadian retailer out west, the Canadian distributor, compare all 3 all in taxes, shipping, duty if need the US supplier is still less. I know that you just lost a lens the cost of the filter will be around $130.00 CDN so it may be tight however once you start working with a filter of this type a whole new world will open up. If it does not work for you sell it someone will want it as it will cost less than if they were to buy it from a retailer ex: The Camera Store in Calgary $162.74 before taxes and shipping.

http://www.2filter.com/4x4camerafilt...dgraduals.html

Their toll free number is at the bottom of that page and the cost of the 3 stop GND filter is $108.18

Cheers:

Allan

[Brownbear]

Hi Allan,

Thank you so much for this information. I have decided that I do need to get some type of filter as I've learned it is sometimes truly impossible to expose for the sky and the foreground... Just this morning again at a park I had to over expose the sky, and having a filter sounds like a wonderful solution... Do these filters fit any and all lens? If not I am going to have to wait awhile until I figure out my lens...

Truly appreciated.

Christina: One of the keys to good landscape images where you have that high dynamic range is the GND filter, knock 3 stops off the sky and it is wow time. I use the 4 x 6 GND filters from Lee, often just holding the filter us against the lens and if it is a longer exposure of say 2 or more seconds I will giggle it up and down to help blur the edge. Now the GND filters come in soft edge which were developed originally for mountains as you only wanted to darken down the sky not the mountain itself, there is also the hard edge work better with a defined horizon. The thing about the 4 x 6 size is it lets you position where you want the edge and also works as it will cover the whole image as if it were a standard ND filter. The circular ones work fine however they set the edge in the middle of the image. I would suggest a 3-stop soft 4 x 6 from Lee on because I use them and not having used other makes. I am going to add a link to where I get them in the US they are very good customer service, looked at a Canadian retailer out west, the Canadian distributor, compare all 3 all in taxes, shipping, duty if need the US supplier is still less. I know that you just lost a lens the cost of the filter will be around $130.00 CDN so it may be tight however once you start working with a filter of this type a whole new world will open up. If it does not work for you sell it someone will want it as it will cost less than if they were to buy it from a retailer ex: The Camera Store in Calgary $162.74 before taxes and shipping.

http://www.2filter.com/4x4camerafilt...dgraduals.html

Their toll free number is at the bottom of that page and the cost of the 3 stop GND filter is $108.18

Cheers:

Allan

[Polar01]

Christina you will note that I said that I hand hold the filter, I also have the holder which I use when I may need an exposure in the ten second or greater range. One photographer who sells a large number of images hand holes every time when needed, he will even stack a couple and shoot. He shoots mainly in the early mornings one reason most buyer buy images from that time of day as they are never up to see a sunrise so he has less photographers to compete up. There is not difference in cost of a 2-stop or the 3-stop I usually use a 3 stop or 4 stop I lean towards the 4 more often however it is about $60.00 more. Oh if the shutter speed is fast enough I will hold the camera in one hand and the filter in the other and shot.

Cheers:

Allan

[Brownbear]

Here are a few of my images from my attempt at the sunrise bridge shot... Alas, they all turned out very poorly so I did not bother with any post processing except to zap a few dust spots (and only so they are a little easier on the viewers eyes) straighten, a couple of crops, and un-sharp mask after downsizing.

I'm sharing simply for the sake of others learning from my experience...

Murat, I'm truly sorry to disappoint. I have taken a few sunrise and sunset photos that are quite nice and far, far better than these images, so I'm not sure what happened... I included a couple of shots with the foreground which I didn't care for because it consisted of a bunch of rocks that I couldn't manage to expose for properly. I think the fog hid a few unsightly things in the foreground and that ocean water in the foreground was prettier than the rocks. I did notice a bench on a seawall so if I try this bridge again I will try including the bench.

My images are also a little blurry even though I used a tripod, but my tripod is a little wonky and on my list to replace... And likely one of those shutter releases.


Manual... ISO of 100 for all. Matrix metering for all but one shot.

I began at an aperture of 18 and a shutter speed of 20 but the images were jet black.... So I just kept trying to get a decent exposure by adjusting the shutter speed or aperture, and various exposure compensations and never managed to do so. ie; either the foreground was underexposed or the sky was overexposed.

#1

F18 SS 1/15



#2


F14 SS 20 Exp Comp +1.3



#3

F13 SS 1/8 (spot metered on the green of the bridge... By this time I was truly desperate to find something that worked.



F14 SS 1/20 Exposure Bias - 1.33

#4



#5


F14 1/20 Exp Bias +.67



From the two below I can see how nice it would be to capture the sun's rays in a properly exposed photo.

#6

F 18 SS 1/100 Exp Bias -2.33



#7

F20 SS 1/40 Exp Bias - 1.33



Please Note: I realize these are poor quality images and I'm sharing them not for a critique but so others can learn, too... But of course if anyone can advise on any obvious mistakes that I made, I would love to hear them to make sunrises a little less stressful.

Now I'm going to work on my to foggy image edits in this thread...

Thank you.

[Brownbear]

Hi Allan,

Yes, I did note that you said you hand-hold the filter but I guess it didn't quite register... Sounds like simple method and a way to avoid changing filters all the time, and I guess fit wouldn't matter. I'm an early bird so that is good to hear... Thank you... I think 3 or 4 stops sounds perfect.

Christina you will note that I said that I hand hold the filter, I also have the holder which I use when I may need an exposure in the ten second or greater range. One photographer who sells a large number of images hand holes every time when needed, he will even stack a couple and shoot. He shoots mainly in the early mornings one reason most buyer buy images from that time of day as they are never up to see a sunrise so he has less photographers to compete up. There is not difference in cost of a 2-stop or the 3-stop I usually use a 3 stop or 4 stop I lean towards the 4 more often however it is about $60.00 more. Oh if the shutter speed is fast enough I will hold the camera in one hand and the filter in the other and shot.

Cheers:

Allan

[Polar01]

Christina: I shoot 90% of my landscape in Aperture, I set the ISO I want, the aperture to get the depth of field I am looking for and let the camera figure out the shutter speed. I take a shot, and adjust for the histogram to move it more to the right. If I want to see what different an f/ stops makes to the depth of field, I then turn off auto focus, and spin the dial to adjust to the desired f-stop. So I am going to ask, what was your thinking as to shooting in manual, you stated that your first image at ISO 100 and 1/20 shutter you image was pitch black, if that was so then there was a problem with the way you metered for the light which your histogram if you checked it should have shown you. Yes a GND filter of 2 or 3 stops would have greatly helped you.
I took your first shot, and played around in Adobe ACR, there I added a grad of 3 stops after I increase 1 stop to get a better foreground so it looks like you were having to work in the range of 3 to 4 stops to knock down that sky. I added a grad to the sky and ended it at the point on the left hand side where the bridges shadow touches shore. I think this maybe more of what you are looking for, this shows my view of reality, but the concept is the same.

Cheers:

Allan

[Brownbear]

Hi Alan,

I suppose manual because my experience from using aperture priority on birds has mostly been blurry photos, so I feel it gives me more control. But that said this morning I tried Andre's suggestion of starting with aperture priority checking the image and settings and trying those on manual and it seemed to work fine (except for an over exposed sky)...

I should've have said that the foreground and trees were jet black, the sky was a pretty blue and the colours of the sun were nice but the rest of the dark subjects in the image were black blobs.

I will try Aperture priority next time, certainly less fiddling with the settings and more time to try and compose a photo.

Christina: I shoot 90% of my landscape in Aperture, I set the ISO I want, the aperture to get the depth of field I am looking for and let the camera figure out the shutter speed. I take a shot, and adjust for the histogram to move it more to the right. If I want to see what different an f/ stops makes to the depth of field, I then turn off auto focus, and spin the dial to adjust to the desired f-stop. So I am going to ask, what was your thinking as to shooting in manual, you stated that your first image at ISO 100 and 1/20 shutter you image was pitch black, if that was so then there was a problem with the way you metered for the light which your histogram if you checked it should have shown you. Yes a GND filter of 2 or 3 stops would have greatly helped you.

Cheers:

Allan

[Brownbear]

Allan, Thank you for the edit which is closer to reality... Perhaps after I invest in some of those filters I will try this bridge again, as your photo shows the potential is there... With aperture priority and a day with some clouds in the sky.

Thank you.

[Mike Buckley]

Christina,

Aperture priority is your friend when making landscapes. Ignore that your photos of birds turned out blurred. A bird is not a landscape. Use each tool in your camera for the type of photo that you're taking rather than trying to apply one particular tool to all shooting situations.

You're concerned about exposing for both the foreground land and the sky. It is often impossible to get one exposure to work properly for both unless you use an ND filter as Allan suggested. So, use a tripod. Take the shot that places the histogram toward the right side. Then reduce your exposure compensation so the histogram is properly situated on the left side. Then combine the two photos in Elements, using the best parts of each exposure.

That's the basic idea that you can refine once you get the basics down. It's good to learn that method because there are certain types of topography that don't lend well to using a filter. As an example, if a tall mountain in the shade is rising in the distance, the filter won't allow you to block the light in the sky without also blocking the top of the mountain that is already on the dark side.

[Brownbear]

Thank you Mike... As I was working on my edits I was thinking about what I said and the slow shutter speeds with landscapes and realized it didn't make sense... It is just that I have had better experiences with SS priority (horses and birds) then with Aperture priority... However, I also read somewhere that under difficult lighting conditions which I think this bridge was that you can't depend on your camera to figure it out... That said, I didn't figure it out either so I will try aperture priority next time and see what happens.

Thank you for the tip... I took some more landscape images this morning (same problem with the sky) and thought about that and tried pressing the bracketing button but I didn't know how to use it, so I will read up on that and try it next time around.

Thank you for the extra tips on filters and when they don't work as well.

PS I just tried pulling the curve as you advised Grahame to do, and it did bring out the mist and the fog but it also introduced funny streaks in the sky... Anyway I pulled back on it, and I used it in the long horizontal photos images I'm about to post. interesting. thank you for sharing.

Christina,

Aperture priority is your friend when making landscapes. Ignore that your photos of birds turned out blurred. A bird is not a landscape. Use each tool in your camera for the type of photo that you're taking rather than trying to apply one particular tool to all shooting situations.

You're concerned about exposing for both the foreground land and the sky. It is often impossible to get one exposure to work properly for both unless you use an ND filter as Allan suggested. So, use a tripod. Take the shot that places the histogram toward the right side. Then reduce your exposure compensation so the histogram is properly situated on the left side. Then combine the two photos in Elements, using the best parts of each exposure.

That's the basic idea that you can refine once you get the basics down. It's good to learn that method because there are certain types of topography that don't lend well to using a filter. As an example, if a tall mountain in the shade is rising in the distance, the filter won't allow you to block the light in the sky without also blocking the top of the mountain that is already on the dark side.

[Brownbear]

Following are my foggy day post processing exercise edits... I used Alan's guidelines (levels and black point (albeit still a bit of a mystery), plus Victors for cropping and Andres (increased the saturation in the greens and the oranges, and contrast a wee bit)...

While not perfect this is more post processing than I've ever managed before so thank you to everyone for your help...





In B&W



And another one I had fun playing with using the curves tool...



In B&W



Thank you. I'm post processed out...

[Mike Buckley]

PS I just tried pulling the curve as you advised Grahame to do, and it did bring out the mist and the fog but it also introduced funny streaks in the sky

The clouds in Grahame's first and third photos are very different from the fog and mist in your photos. His clouds have tonal range that can be enhanced. Your fog and mist has little tonal range and trying to give it tonal range will generally result in problems, at least based on my experience.

Perhaps most important, Grahame's clouds have texture that can be enhanced. The fog and mist in your photos have very little texture and to add texture would ruin the mood in my opinion.