Learning Landscapes - Water Fountain Test Silky Water

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Originally Posted by rtbaum

http://i43.tinypic.com/afkgty.jpg

I pulled this up from Oct 2010, Cascade Falls State Park, Lutsen, Mn.

Nikon D90
Tamron 18-270 @ 73mm
ISO 100
f/9.0
1.6 sec
ND10 filter (and, I think CP)
assorted tweaks in Lightroom and CS4

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Hi Randy,

Nice creamy photo of waterfall.

Your photo makes it a lot easier to understand your settings and method.
Taking note of your ISO 100, f/9.0, 1.6 sec, and ND10 filter.

For some reason, it's so hard to visualize how a photo looks based on a lot of words.

Thanks Randy.

You have my sympathy, Christine. I'm trying to do the exact opposite because I'm often in environments where part of my objective is to get the sense of the spray from breaking waves or when water splats on the rocks at the bottom of a falls. And, I'm getting better at it. My real test will come this winter when we have a really wild winter storm with 50mph or higher winds.

This discussion is incredibly valuable for me because I'm finding I need to do almost exactly the opposite to accomplish my objective.

Thank you.

virginia

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Originally Posted by ajohnw

I am not a fan of silky water. To me Loose Canon's 1st shot is easily the best as it shows movement. There was also an excellent shot of a Welsh stream in flood in a recent competition - hardly and votes at all. To set a camera to take that in one shot would be a fair old challenge.

Me - not much done on waterfalls. I did take a couple of shots of this one. Composition problems and I wouldn't slikyfy it. Not happy with the processing either. Done on my original monitor :) It looked ok on that and really needs reworking at a smaller size too.

http://i42.tinypic.com/11rdmvp.jpg
John
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Hi John,

Your photo makes it easier for us to visualize your posts/method.

Thanks a lot for your photo and illuminating explanation how you utilize P mode.

It might help to clarify the reason for my recommendation that Christina uses Auto ISO when shooting handheld. She has had many problems that would have been easily solved using Auto ISO. Those problems resulted in frustration and disappointment.

I like Manfred's approach that he never uses Auto ISO but appreciates why others do.

I don't like the approach when people say to never use Auto ISO using the rationality that professional landscape photographers don't use it. Christina is not a professional landscape photographer and becoming one is not her immediate goal; mastering the most basic aspects of her camera, which would not be the ongoing concern of any reasonably proficient pro photographer, is her immediate goal. I believe using Auto ISO for handheld photography will help her accomplish that goal, at which time she will have sufficient command of her camera to decide for herself when and if Auto ISO will meet her needs beyond then.

I hope I have the good sense not to repeat this post, as doing so would become tiring for me and surely everyone else. I felt the need to post it because I sense many people are making recommendations that fail to take into account Christina's current struggles and where she is in her learning curve.

Like Manfred and Murat, I only use auto-ISO in specific situations, such as birds. My first SLR, way back when, did not offer auto settings of any sort. The lens was a 50mm with the handy little scale with dof at different f/stops, film speed was fixed by whatever was loaded, proper exposure was determined by adjusting shutter speed. I may be wrong but I think that focus gave a pretty good idea of the final image as far as depth of focus. Life was so simple:)

Here is another look at comparisons for you Christina... I don't personally favor milky water, but don't fault those that do, and it's always a fun go...

Here are a couple of shots (hand held and SOOC) for comparison:

1.
http://i42.tinypic.com/2yw97a8.jpg
Aperture Priority...
ISO 800 (I had it in auto ISO)
f/3.6
1/140 sec

2.
http://i39.tinypic.com/21o6jqh.jpg
Here I closed down the aperture to slow the shutter speed.
Aperture Priority...
ISO 800
f/7.1
1/30 sec

Hi Virginia,

Thank you for sharing... nice to know that you are also learning from this thread. I'm looking forward to viewing those wild, winter storm images!

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Originally Posted by drjuice

You have my sympathy, Christine. I'm trying to do the exact opposite because I'm often in environments where part of my objective is to get the sense of the spray from breaking waves or when water splats on the rocks at the bottom of a falls. And, I'm getting better at it. My real test will come this winter when we have a really wild winter storm with 50mph or higher winds.

This discussion is incredibly valuable for me because I'm finding I need to do almost exactly the opposite to accomplish my objective.

Thank you.

virginia

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Thank you Randy and Susan for sharing your photos. Beautiful waterfall Randy. Susan, I like image 2, a lot.

Here are some waterfall shots from this morning taken in Lynn Canyon, a very beautiful area.

I don't think I will be returning for a while unless we receive a long dry stretch because the trails were muddy, wet and a bit treacherous. I had hoped to get down to the base of the falls but I never managed. I was already in an out of bounds area and it was too slippery and steep (for my camera, not me:) )

I managed the silky water effect. Thank you to all for your help with this. However I suspect that my images either have motion blur in them or are a little soft... I found using a tripod awkward for obtaining the composition I wanted (ie; positioning myself and the tripod) and I also found the super slow shutter speed associated with the slow shutter speed excruciatingly slow. I messed up many shots by moving the camera thinking the shot was finally over, only to find that the shutter button clicked after the fact. Lesson learned for next time and I will likely look for a waterfall that is easier to access.

I tried to auto bracket manually but the dynamic range of the forest was too, much, ie; black trees, overexposed water, all the shots were clipped. I also tried auto bracketing inside my camera but while going through my images I don't know which ones are which, so too confusing and I will try this another day... I was yearning for filters today.

Processed in LR, burning the water and lightening the foliage, and on a couple of these I added a levels layer to try and improve upon the effect.

All aperture priority... The ones with an ISO of 100 were taken with a tripod... The others were hand held. Auto ISO set to a max of 800 starting with a minimum SS of 1 second.

#1

F18 1 second ISO 220 Exp -.67

http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/...alls-9copy.jpg

[B]#2

F20 SS 1 sec ISO 400 Exp Comp -1.67

http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/...alls-4copy.jpg


#3

F22 1 sec ISO 500 Exp -.67

http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/...alls-7copy.jpg


#4
1 Sec F20 ISO 160 Exp -1.67

http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/...alls-4copy.jpg


#5

F20 3 Sec ISO 100 Exp -1.3

http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/...alls-2copy.jpg

#6 (the only shot where I managed to freeze the water without blowing the water)

F10 SS 1/25 Exp -1 ISO 200

http://i1098.photobucket.com/albums/...lls-12copy.jpg


No bears or wildlife in sight... (: Next week I will try something else, and I will try the waterfall again once the trails are in better shape.


Thank you to all.

By jove, I believe she's got it!

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Originally Posted by Mike Buckley

It might help to clarify the reason for my recommendation that Christina uses Auto ISO when shooting handheld. She has had many problems that would have been easily solved using Auto ISO. Those problems resulted in frustration and disappointment.

I like Manfred's approach that he never uses Auto ISO but appreciates why others do.

I don't like the approach when people say to never use Auto ISO using the rationality that professional landscape photographers don't use it. Christina is not a professional landscape photographer and becoming one is not her immediate goal; mastering the most basic aspects of her camera, which would not be the ongoing concern of any reasonably proficient pro photographer, is her immediate goal. I believe using Auto ISO for handheld photography will help her accomplish that goal, at which time she will have sufficient command of her camera to decide for herself when and if Auto ISO will meet her needs beyond then.

I hope I have the good sense not to repeat this post, as doing so would become tiring for me and surely everyone else. I felt the need to post it because I sense many people are making recommendations that fail to take into account Christina's current struggles and where she is in her learning curve.

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Mike,

I fully agree with what you have said.

Grahame

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Christina S

Here are some waterfall shots from this morning taken in Lynn Canyon, a very beautiful area.

I don't think I will be returning for a while unless we receive a long dry stretch because the trails were muddy, wet and a bit treacherous. I had hoped to get down to the base of the falls but I never managed. I was already in an out of bounds area and it was too slippery and steep (for my camera, not me:) )

I managed the silky water effect. Thank you to all for your help with this. However I suspect that my images either have motion blur in them or are a little soft... I found using a tripod awkward for obtaining the composition I wanted (ie; positioning myself and the tripod) and I also found the super slow shutter speed associated with the slow shutter speed excruciatingly slow. I messed up many shots by moving the camera thinking the shot was finally over, only to find that the shutter button clicked after the fact. Lesson learned for next time and I will likely look for a waterfall that is easier to access.

I tried to auto bracket manually but the dynamic range of the forest was too, much, ie; black trees, overexposed water, all the shots were clipped. I also tried auto bracketing inside my camera but while going through my images I don't know which ones are which, so too confusing and I will try this another day... I was yearning for filters today.

Processed in LR, burning the water and lightening the foliage, and on a couple of these I added a levels layer to try and improve upon the effect.

All aperture priority... The ones with an ISO of 100 were taken with a tripod... The others were hand held. Auto ISO set to a max of 800 starting with a minimum SS of 1 second.

No bears or wildlife in sight... (: Next week I will try something else, and I will try the waterfall again once the trails are in better shape.


Thank you to all.

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Hi Christina,

Well done. You have now learnt a range of speeds that are going to give you some different 'silkiness' levels.

A tip for bracketing is to take a blank shot, hand in front of lens, after each sequence which makes it simple to sort them later. But saying that not sure why you want to play with bracketing at the moment when you seem to have mastered use of exposure compensation and verifying your histogram?

Grahame

It's good to know that you're tougher than your camera. You go, girl! :D

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Originally Posted by Christina S

The others were hand held. Auto ISO set to a max of 800 starting with a minimum SS of 1 second.

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Note to Christina :D -- When configuring your minimum shutter speed for hand holding the camera, it has to be at least fast enough to allow you to hold the camera still enough. Even if your lens has Vibration Reduction enabled, I seriously doubt that a speed of one second is fast enough, though I never use VR. I realize you might have been hoping to get the silky effect and that is what probably drove you to use 1 second as your minimum speed. However, holding the camera still enough is always your highest priority.

Those of you with experience using image-stabilization technology: Is it reasonable to think that any focal length mounted on a camera with a 1.5 crop factor can be held still for an entire second?

It wasn't for me Mike, but my nerves are shot!

Hi Terry,

Thank you. I think I got the silky effect :) but I can see blur, so I will tackle that next time around. The terrain was rough which didn't make things easy for me so I am going to look for a waterfall in the city..

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Originally Posted by Loose Canon

By jove, I believe she's got it!

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Christina S

a waterfall in the city..

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Try your kitchen faucet. :D

Hi Mike,

No doubt I will be trying again once the trails are drier.

I don't have any lens with VR... This was my sigma 18-50 mm lens. I lay down on the rocks and dug my elbows into the mud and braced my camera, tightly between my hands... It is a very light lens...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike Buckley

It's good to know that you're tougher than your camera. You go, girl! :D



Note to Christina :D -- When configuring your minimum shutter speed for hand holding the camera, it has to be at least fast enough to allow you to hold the camera still enough. Even if your lens has Vibration Reduction enabled, I seriously doubt that a speed of one second is fast enough, though I never use VR. I realize you might have been hoping to get the silky effect and that is what probably drove you to use 1 second as your minimum speed. However, holding the camera still enough is always your highest priority.

Those of you with experience using image-stabilization technology: Is it reasonable to think that any focal length mounted on a camera with a 1.5 crop factor can be held still for an entire second?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike Buckley

Try your kitchen faucet. :D

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with a stuffed teddy bear frolicking in the the water... Wonderful idea!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mike Buckley

Try your kitchen faucet. :D

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I have a friend that did just that when he was working on a technique. I was puzzled by the background and had to ask him what it was - when he told me we both had a good laugh :) BTW, he came up with some cool images from that humblest of subject!

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Originally Posted by Christina S

This was my sigma 18-50 mm lens. I lay down on the rocks and dug my elbows into the mud and braced my camera, tightly between my hands

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That's dedication. Better yet, it explains your rationale for using a minimum shutter speed of only one second. Even so, I really doubt that that's fast enough even in that situation.