Determining Viewable Print Size vs Actual Size

[terrib]

This seems like it should be easy but my feeble brain is not seeing how to do it.

As an example, I want to print a 4x6 photo that will be used to make a greeting card. The card stock has a window opening of 3 5/8 x 5 5/8 that the photo will show through. My question is whether there is a place in Lightroom that allows me to crop to 4x6 but also to see the dimensions of 3 5/8 x 5 5/8 so I know exactly what part of the photo will show through the window. This also has applications for matting when framing photos so it seems like it would be a fairly standard thing to ask. Maybe I'm being too picky but I don't want to just guess whether I've left the right amount of extra space around my crop.

Thanks in advance for your assistance!

[Mike Buckley]

I still haven't used that part of Lightroom, but in this case you could easily print the photo and determine the content that is going to be hidden in the outer 3/16" on all sides.

You're definitely not being too picky. The software that I have been using for 10 years does what you want. I'm pretty sure the first version of Elements did also.

[terrib]

Thanks for the response, Mike, but I'm hoping to avoid wasting ink by trial and error printing.

[terrib]

I have found in the print module where I can bring up my already cropped photo and then change the cell size, which shows me what the changed dimensions do to the photo. That I guess does give me a way to accomplish what I want. It's just if I need to make an adjustment, I have to go back to the Develop Module, make another guess at a 4x6 crop and bring that crop into the Print Module and change the cell size again. It would be nice to be able to see the "border" while making the initial crop.

[Mike Buckley]

If Lightroom doesn't do that, I would be very surprised if lots of free software doesn't do it. Maybe you should just do cropping in another application, though I hate having to use multiple apps as much as anyone.

[Stagecoach]

Terri,

I do not use Lightroom but in in Elements I would produce two files, one of the picture 4 x 6 ratio and one of a frame with transparent centre with an opening of 3 5/8 x 5 5/8 ratio. It should then be possible to place the frame over the picture using layers, but I have not played with this.

For a very very simple solution get a piece of A4 and cut a hole in it 3 5/8 x 5 5/8 (unless you have the cards), with the pic on the screen displayed at it's print size simply put the paper over it and view. Confirm that it is actually displayed at 4 x 6 as this will be determined by the accuracy of you default screen ppi setting.

Grahame

[Macmahon]

This seems like it should be easy but my feeble brain is not seeing how to do it.

As an example, I want to print a 4x6 photo that will be used to make a greeting card. The card stock has a window opening of 3 5/8 x 5 5/8 that the photo will show through. My question is whether there is a place in Lightroom that allows me to crop to 4x6 but also to see the dimensions of 3 5/8 x 5 5/8 so I know exactly what part of the photo will show through the window. This also has applications for matting when framing photos so it seems like it would be a fairly standard thing to ask. Maybe I'm being too picky but I don't want to just guess whether I've left the right amount of extra space around my crop.

Thanks in advance for your assistance!

Terri

Your issue here is that, though you may be printing on 4"X6" photo paper, the 'showing' part of the image is not 4:6 ratio. It is 3 ⅝ : 5 ⅝ , or 29:45. If you make your original crop 29:45 in Develop, and the print size to 3 ⅝ X 5 ⅝ (= 3.625" X 5.625") you'll see precisely what will show through: i.e. exactly what you cropped.

BUT if you do that, lining your print up in the card won't be easy because the image is exactly the same size as the opening and you'll likely get a white stripe somewhere if you're not precise in positioning the photo.

What I would do is assume 1/16 or so overlap on each edge: i.e. ⅛" overall in height and width and crop, and print to that. i.e. crop to 3.75 X 5.75 in Develop, and print to 3.75" x 5.75" (using the cell size in LR's Print Module, Layout panel), knowing that the 1/16" edge all round will be obscured.*

Does that help?

Tim

* The print module will, of course, place the 3.75*X*5.75 image centred in the 4X6 paper.

[Stagecoach]

Terri,

I had another think about your problem as I had come up against similar before and the need to be able to adjust/position your image (whatever size/ratio) before cropping within a specific frame/opening of a certain size.

Again, I'm not conversant with Lightroom but this is a method that is very easily accomplished in Elements or any programme that allows the use of layers;

a) Produce a new blank image file with a white background exactly the ratio of your card or matt opening, make this white.
b) Extend this image with a black canvas, this can be any size.
c) Add your chosen image to this as another layer and reduce its opacity to 50%.
d) You are then able to move your chosen image around and enlarge/reduce as necessary and place it exactly as you wish over the frame opening which you can see beneath your image.
e) Once it is positioned as you wish simply crop it at the size/ratio you require for printing giving yourself enough extra for overlap.
f) Delete the frame, return your image to 100% opacity and save.

Grahame

[xpatUSA]

Elements 6 also has a handy extra:- image>resize>canvas

You can make an image the size required first - and then use the canvas option to create a matte. The default is a centered image but you can have left, right, etc. Or you could make the matte bigger and crop it to put the image wherever you want.

Did this in about 5 msec just now:



Can't imagine LR not having the same function ;-)

[terrib]

Thank you, Grahame, Tim and Ted for your responses also. Ted, I also can't imagine that LR doesn't have a way to deal with this situation but apparently it doesn't - at least not elegantly. I really was hoping for a LR solution as I do almost all of my post there and don't really want to involve other software for every print job.

By the way, I am not actually printing but I'm exporting a cropped photo to a file for sending to a lab for printing.

[Macmahon]

By the way, I am not actually printing but I'm exporting a cropped photo to a file for sending to a lab for printing.

Terri
I think you can proceed in Lightroom as I suggested in post #7. In the print module, you simply choose to PRINT TO JPEG FILE. As long as you had set your page size up as 4"x6" the file will be just what your print lab needs and the print will be just what you need! (They'd need to print borderless)
Tim

[HenkB]

I think there is no tool in LR for the specific task so, yes, it won't be elegant. But here's a way that doesn't involve any ink:

First, you need to develop an eye for the approximate loss at the margins to the window or, put otherwise, the excess you need to print to have what you want comfortably revealed within the card window. If you have the card stock (that is if the card isn't assembled by the folks doing the printing) you should be able to use this to mark up a spare 4X6 to help develop your eye. Or, cut a 5 5/8" x 3 5/8" window in a piece of paper and use it in the same way.

Back in LR, after correcting for tilt and cropping to the correct aspect ratio using your estimate of window loss, you can check your composition with the adjustment brush. Choose a brush size that approximates the loss. Nicely enough, LR seems to base its brush size on the frame as cropped so a given number will always be the same relative to the frame despite differing pixel dimensions. Turn off auto-mask. Set your brush to something obvious (burn or dodge, 100%, perhaps) and draw around the boundary of the frame. For each side of the image that you care about, put the inner circle of the brush in an image corner tangent to the frame and draw along the edge with the shift key depressed. Subjects don't always fill the frame in both axes so you might only be concerned with one or two sides.

[HenkB]

Well, I spoke too soon. There IS a tool that can be put to this use. At least in LR5 there is. But not, it seems, in the crop adjustment. It is now possible to show a grid overlay in loupe view that is adjustable for size of cell. Menu: View/Loupe Overlay>Grid. Pressing Command/Control will display a box at the top of the image frame - drag on Grid Size to change.
The grid is based on the image frame, not the image or its pixel dimensions. So, at base magnification it should be possible to arrange the size of the grid to be about 96 across. This represents the number of 16ths of an inch across a 6" print. Thus, examining the image in the last three boxes around the edge should give you a very good idea if you have optimized your composition for the particular framing situation you face. The process will be iterative, jumping back and forth between crop and loupe, but it should work and takes even less effort than the adjustment brush.

[terrib]

Thanks Tim and Hendrik for the time you took to respond. Very helpful!

Hendrik, I'd have never come up with that second solution. I hadn't even run across that grid overlay before. Very creative!

[Steve S]

Thanks Tim and Hendrik for the time you took to respond. Very helpful!

Hendrik, I'd have never come up with that second solution. I hadn't even run across that grid overlay before. Very creative!

Why not just print the image to the window opening size (on a 4 x 6 page , centered ) Then when you slide it into the window, you will see the whole image.

[Mike Buckley]

Why not just print the image to the window opening size (on a 4 x 6 page , centered ) Then when you slide it into the window, you will see the whole image.

It would be very difficult if not impossible to properly align the image without revealing any of the margin. If you did manage to make it work, its position would probably change, especially after going through the postal service.