Low Light Photography

[RRAM]

Hello Everyone,

I am new to the forum (1st post) and to the world of DSLR(2 weeks). My main reason for buying a DSLR was to photograph my son (13 months old). I bought a Canon T3i (Refurbished) with 18-55mm kit lense and Canon EF 50mm f1.8(Got a very good deal on it 60$ new). I was going through posts on low light photography and prime lens. It got me confused look like every one has a different definition of Low Light Photography. For me its to click photograph without a flash so that i could capture natural expression instead of distracting them with flash (especially kids). Could anyone explain what falls under low light photography?

[Colin Southern]

I don't know of a precise definition, but for me, it's when I have the shutter open for at least several seconds to as much as 45 minutes.

Many have cited how "prime lenses" go hand in hand with "low light" photography, but it's not quite as cut and dried as it used to be; for starters, it's not so much the case of it being advantageous because it's a prime lens as it is the fact that prime lenses often have wider apertures to let in more light (a 50mm F2.8 lens is no better in that regard than a F2.8mm zoom lens set to 50mm, and a 50mm F1.8 prime wouldn't be any better than a F1.8 zoom lens set to F1.8 -- except that they don't make any zoom lenses that open to F1.8 - so below about F2.8 it's pretty much primes only).

The other issue though is Depth of Field (DOF); just because a prime lens at F1.2 or F1.8 satisfies the exposure requirements, doesn't mean to say the DOF will be acceptable at that aperture (it can be razor thin). It was a more compelling argument in the old film days when the fastest film we could use was typically around 400 ASA (ISO) - these days digital cameras can work with MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH less light -- so typically we can enjoy the benefits of zoom lenses, and just use a higher ISO setting to compensate for their slightly smaller maximum aperture.

In terms of sharpness, primes used to enjoy a noticeable advantage, but for all intents and purposes, zooms have well and truly caught up.

[Shadowman]

There is low light photography and low key photography, the first tries to capture an image with available light, the second with limited light. Low key subjects are usually closeup and can involve the use of a reflector.

[DanK]

My main reason for buying a DSLR was to photograph my son (13 months old). I bought a Canon T3i (Refurbished) with 18-55mm kit lense and Canon EF 50mm f1.8(Got a very good deal on it 60$ new). I was going through posts on low light photography and prime lens. It got me confused look like every one has a different definition of Low Light Photography. For me its to click photograph without a flash so that i could capture natural expression instead of distracting them with flash (especially kids).

This can be tough, unless you have quite a bit of light. As Colin pointed out, using a fast (wide aperture) prime can help, but at the cost of depth of field that is too narrow for candids. You can bump up ISO, but that adds noise, and it can become unacceptably noisy.

For indoor candids of kids, I generally rely on flash, but NOT direct flash, which creates ugly photos as well as being distracting. I use an external flash, mounted on the hot shoe, and bounce off the ceiling or sometimes a wall. This lights things up without a huge burst of light right in their faces. I generally use a bounce card (a Demb Flip-it, but there are others) to reflect a bit of light directly forward to get catchlight in the eyes. It's a pretty simple setup, not too expensive, and very easy to do with today's cameras and flashes because the ETTL system meters the light from the flash. There are lots of more elaborate methods, but this simple one works pretty well.

[dubaiphil]

Colin's going to spit out his cornflakes here, as I'm not going to advocate a prime lens in this instance!

I have a very active 19 month old boy, and with him as a subject I wouldn't be relying solely on a fast prime. Your camera will have to track focus very accurately and you'll have to be spot on or you won't have many keepers. Also, with a prime you'll be constantly on the move as your subject is on the move, which can be troublesome if you're trying to get on your son's level rather than shooting down from a more natural shooting height for yourself - I know, I've been there and have the carpet burns!

So whenever I'm taking shots of my son (unless he's confined in a high chair) I'm shooting with a zoom and adding bounce flash if necessary. My most used lens for shooting with him is a 24-70mm f2.8G Nikkor, and I'm generally stopped down to f4-f8 to make sure I have enough DoF to keep the eyes sharp if he's moving around. Then if light levels drop or are lower I may go to f2.8 or add that bounce flash. To make things simpler and less bulky (plus not having to rotate and reangle the flash when shooting in portrait rather than landscape orientation) I'll try shooting with the flash bounced off the ceiling and shot remotely, triggered with pocketwizards.

You'll be needing to maintain a shutter speed of at least 1/100th with a 1-2 year old at a focal length of up to 55mm to try to freeze motion - maybe up to 1/200th or 1/250th if anything frenetic is going on. Or for something slightly more psychedelic try shooting at 1/30th or slower with your on board flash on rear curtain.

[RRAM]

Thank you for all the information everyone has provided. This is what i have understood,
1. I need to get a flash and use it to bounce the light of the wall. (Does a diffuser help?).
2. Using Zoom lens might give me a better DoF or Prime lens set at higher f value between f4 –f8.
3. Try using faster shutter speeds preferably at 1/100 or higher.
As a general rule I
1. Try not to set ISO over 800 whenever possible.
2. Shoot in continuous mode (out of 5 I will be able at least use 1).
3. Shoot in auto when I am not sure about the setting and review settings made by the camera later. (I shoot 70% of time in Manual and 30% in Auto mode).
4. In take photographs in Raw and JPEG mode as I would like learn Post Process of images.
I need to us the kit lens and experiment more with the setting and figure out what noise levels are acceptable for me.
I was planning on buying a zoom lens Canon EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 III or EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS II any suggestions?

[xpatUSA]

This is what i have understood,
1. I need to get a flash and use it to bounce the light of the wall. (Does a diffuser help?).

There are many things called "diffusers" which may, or may not, help with your child photography. There are transmissive diffusers and there are reflective diffusers, all with their various purposes. Have you looked on-line at a camera store like B&H or Adorama? There are also many types of wall surface. Indeed, a white-washed brick wall is probably a reasonable diffuser for kid shots. A mirror, on the other hand . . .

To bounce or not to bounce, that is the question. What kind of wall(s) in your room? Will one flash meet all your needs?

As I understand flash photography, the intense, almost point source of light results in deep shadows, too-bright highlights - and possible white balance problems if the room lighting is left on and contributes to the illuminance of the subject. "Mixed Lighting" is often frowned upon by the cognoscenti. A good diffuser takes the light from the flash over a large surface and re-radiates it toward the subject so that it emanates from a large area - thus giving less contrast at the subject, i.e. more even lighting. I do this for watch or jewelry photography. Thick tracing paper does it for me along with Kodak white cards as diffusive reflectors. All rather easy, no motion involved!

Fortunately, 13 month-old babies are not allowed anywhere near my bench ;-)

[HaseebM]

Thank you for all the information everyone has provided. This is what i have understood,
1. I need to get a flash and use it to bounce the light of the wall. (Does a diffuser help?).
2. Using Zoom lens might give me a better DoF or Prime lens set at higher f value between f4 –f8.
3. Try using faster shutter speeds preferably at 1/100 or higher.
As a general rule I
1. Try not to set ISO over 800 whenever possible.
2. Shoot in continuous mode (out of 5 I will be able at least use 1).
3. Shoot in auto when I am not sure about the setting and review settings made by the camera later. (I shoot 70% of time in Manual and 30% in Auto mode).
4. In take photographs in Raw and JPEG mode as I would like learn Post Process of images.
I need to us the kit lens and experiment more with the setting and figure out what noise levels are acceptable for me.
I was planning on buying a zoom lens Canon EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 III or EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS II any suggestions?

One major point here being, low light photography involves leaving the shutter open for longer periods to capture available light. With a 13 yr old, you will simply have to freeze the motion as it would be highly unlikely you will be able to get a clear shot with a longer exposure of even a second. So 1/250th, with flash or diffuser or bounce is the most likely method for indoors. For still life photography, you could attempt a 2 second exposure in a low light situation to see the outcome. Use ISO 400 and keep bumping up as you progress or use Av mode first. If you are shooting still life in low light, then any lens will work but shutter and ISO will increase / decrease based on f/ratio.

For the zoom lens, unless you are getting the IS version of Canon, you could perhaps think of the Tamron 70-300 Di VC USD which has image stabilization feature and very good lens for the money. I have one and I bought this after selling the 75-300mm Canon non IS.

[HaseebM]

Thank you for all the information everyone has provided. This is what i have understood,
1. I need to get a flash and use it to bounce the light of the wall. (Does a diffuser help?).
2. Using Zoom lens might give me a better DoF or Prime lens set at higher f value between f4 –f8.
3. Try using faster shutter speeds preferably at 1/100 or higher.
As a general rule I
1. Try not to set ISO over 800 whenever possible.
2. Shoot in continuous mode (out of 5 I will be able at least use 1).
3. Shoot in auto when I am not sure about the setting and review settings made by the camera later. (I shoot 70% of time in Manual and 30% in Auto mode).
4. In take photographs in Raw and JPEG mode as I would like learn Post Process of images.
I need to us the kit lens and experiment more with the setting and figure out what noise levels are acceptable for me.
I was planning on buying a zoom lens Canon EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 III or EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS II any suggestions?

One major point here being, low light photography involves leaving the shutter open for longer periods to capture available light. With a 13 yr old, you will simply have to freeze the motion as it would be highly unlikely you will be able to get a clear shot with a longer exposure of even a second. So 1/250th, with flash or diffuser or bounce is the most likely method for indoors. For still life photography, you could attempt a 2 second exposure in a low light situation to see the outcome. Use ISO 400 and keep bumping up as you progress or use Av mode first. If you are shooting still life in low light, then any lens will work but shutter and ISO will increase / decrease based on f/ratio.

For the zoom lens, unless you are getting the IS version of Canon, you could perhaps think of the Tamron 70-300 Di VC USD which has image stabilization feature and very good lens for the money. I have one and I bought this after selling the 75-300mm Canon non IS.

[RobertsMx]

Thank you for all the information everyone has provided. This is what i have understood,
1. I need to get a flash and use it to bounce the light of the wall. (Does a diffuser help?).
2. Using Zoom lens might give me a better DoF or Prime lens set at higher f value between f4 –f8.
3. Try using faster shutter speeds preferably at 1/100 or higher.
As a general rule I
1. Try not to set ISO over 800 whenever possible.
2. Shoot in continuous mode (out of 5 I will be able at least use 1).
3. Shoot in auto when I am not sure about the setting and review settings made by the camera later. (I shoot 70% of time in Manual and 30% in Auto mode).
4. In take photographs in Raw and JPEG mode as I would like learn Post Process of images.
I need to us the kit lens and experiment more with the setting and figure out what noise levels are acceptable for me.
I was planning on buying a zoom lens Canon EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 III or EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS II any suggestions?

1- Diffusers can help. I prefer bounce but there are situations when that is not an option (mirrored/shiny/colored surfaces, halls with very high ceilings etc).
2- I prefer primes over zooms. But of course zooms will provide you with greater flexibility but usually f/2.8 is the limit (exception being the Sigma 18-35/1.8). But the prime advantage is that if you need f/2.8, you have it. If you need f/1.8, you have it too. Also, there is a good chance that f/1.8 will give you the sufficient DOF, and f/2.8 a bit too much.
3- I practically never shoot in Auto mode (there are a few stacking modes in my cameras that I do use, but never the traditional Auto modes). My preferred mode is Aperture Priority w/manual ISO. But if max aperture is guaranteed anyway, I will switch to Shutter Priority or Manual.
4-RAW is good. I too shoot RAW+JPEG but JPEG is primarily to quickly review images on computer. They are all gone by the time I'm done with RAW conversion. RAW is also a reason I leave Auto WB.

Can't help with lens choices, but also consider Tamron 70-300 USD VC.

[RRAM]

Ted Cousins - the walls in my apartment are of cream color.
Manu - I shoot in RAW+JPEG as it help understand how the camera processes the picture and if i like how JPEG output looks then i try to process the RAW image to match the JPEG.

[RRAM]

Below is my first attemp at post processing. Could you please critique.

Camera : Canon T3i
Lens: Canon EF 50mm f1.8 II
F-stop : f1.8
Shutter Speed: 1/60 sec
White Balance: Fluorescence
Flash: No
Shot in RAW mode
Editing Tool : ACDsee Pro 7 (Trial Version).

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...1&l=0490b405d1

[HaseebM]

Very good indeed. Find it a bit soft but otherwise quite clear.

[MarkS]

I have a 5 month old, and 1/60 sec is about the slowest shutter speed I would consider. I would suggest one or two stops faster, this should make your subject a bit clearer. You didn't mention what ISO was, but I see very little noise.

[RRAM]

MarkS ISO is set at 800

[jcuknz]

With creamy walls you are very likely to get creamy photo results from bounced flash as I did when I organised some silver paper in front of the on-board flash of my camera to direct the light upwards ... it would be possible to counteract this with a light blue filter over the flash.
Low light to me is when I need more than 1/100 at f/8 but I have not shot kids for decades, my son is 45yo

[RRAM]

HaseebM Does the orignal picture also look soft or the edit picture? i can go back reedit the pic to increase the sharpness.

jcuknz: I have not used the flash for this photograph. I have havent bought the filters yet. One of my friends suggested getting Custom White Balance Filter. I was reading up on it and cost wise it pretty cheap(arounnd $4 on amazon) was planning to order one try it out..

[Colin Southern]

With creamy walls you are very likely to get creamy photo results from bounced flash as I did when I organised some silver paper in front of the on-board flash of my camera to direct the light upwards ... it would be possible to counteract this with a light blue filter over the flash.

Often, the colour of the walls doesn't create as big a problem as people first expect because a large portion of what's illuminating the subject (ie the non-flash portion) has usually already bounced off the same walls anyway, so usually, one can get a good result simply by gelling the flash to match the colour temp of the primary illuminant, and then white balancing the entire shot as per normal.

[Colin Southern]

HaseebM Does the orignal picture also look soft or the edit picture? i can go back reedit the pic to increase the sharpness.

Both the original and the post-processed images look VERY soft (I had a play with them in Photoshop, but it was too soft to be able to do anything with)

I suspect part of the issue is the initial capture, but you could also improve it significantly with an optimal multi-pass sharpening workflow.

Personally, I wouldn't shoot something like that at F1.8; the DoF is far too shallow to by that close to the subject.

[rpcrowe]

Thank you for all the information everyone has provided. This is what i have understood,
1. I need to get a flash and use it to bounce the light of the wall. (Does a diffuser help?).

Yes, IMO everyone needs a flash and one of the best ways to use that flash is to bounce it off the wall or ceiling. A reflector/diffuser such as the Joe Demb FlipIt or Flash Difuser Pro is a great help because it directs a portion of the light forward to fill shadows caused by the flash. This prevents, among other things: raccoon eyes. A reflector/diffuser can be a DIY project http://super.nova.org/DPR/DIY01/ or even a white card taped to the rear of the flash tube can help. However, IMO, the Demb Flash Diffuser Pro is the best of its kind because it is so versatile. I don't like the Stofen-type diffuser. I bought one once and now I use it to store my AA batteries. Creatively bounced flash can look better than most available light situations and you need not worry about the flash bothering the eyes of kids or pets. And a bonus... no red eye in humans or blue eye in dogs...

2. Using Zoom lens might give me a better DoF or Prime lens set at higher f value between f4 –f8.

There will be no difference (see note below) in the DOF between a prime lens and a zoom lens at the same focal length and f/stop. The difference between a zoom and a prime is that you are not restricted to a single focal length with a zoom and that most of the time, your primes might be faster than your zooms. However, when using flash, I seldom shoot wider than f/4 (except at times to open up dark backgrounds lit by incident light; so I really don't need a lens faster than f/2.8 for the majority of my shooting...

3. Try using faster shutter speeds preferably at 1/100 or higher.
As a general rule I
1. Try not to set ISO over 800 whenever possible.

I normally use ISO 160 when bouncing my flash indoors in "normal" size rooms.

2. Shoot in continuous mode (out of 5 I will be able at least use 1).

I shoot in single shot mode so my flash will recharge between each shot. I don't need to shoot in burst mode because I expect 95% or above success rates when I bounce my flash.

3. Shoot in auto when I am not sure about the setting and review settings made by the camera later. (I shoot 70% of time in Manual and 30% in Auto mode).

I shoot in Aperture priority and the aperture I choose will be determined by my subject. For portraits, I like a thin DOF and for general shooting of active subjects, I will use around f/8 o f/11. In a normal size room, my 500EX-RT flash (and even my 430EX) has plenty of power to support the smaller apertures. In reality, with Canon cameras (I cannot speak for oher brands) you can usually get pretty good results using the Programmed setting.

4. In take photographs in Raw and JPEG mode as I would like learn Post Process of images.

When I bought my first DSLR (Canon 10D many-many years ago) I was afraid of shooting in RAW so I shot in RAW + JPEG Large. However after a while; I realized that I was not touching the JPEG at all so I began shooting in only RAW and have not looked back.

I need to us the kit lens and experiment more with the setting and figure out what noise levels are acceptable for me.

Using a flash, you can shoot at ISO 100-200 and not have to worry about noise. If you shoot around f/8 to f/11. you kit lens will produce some very good IQ.

I was planning on buying a zoom lens Canon EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 III or EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS II any suggestions?

A telephoto zoom lens is an excellent investment. There are many things that you can do with a long focal length lens. Between the 75-300mm f/4-5.6 IS and the 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS II lenses, my choice would be the 55-250. The next step up the quality ladder might be the 70-300mm f/4-5.6 (IS or VC) lenses from Canon or Tamron.

(Note from above) The focal lengths marked on a zoom lens are only totally accurate when the lens is focused at infinity. However, you can usually disregard the differences because the results are so close...

Good luck and happy shooting...