Battling with red flowers - any help?

[AB26]

I am still battling with getting detail in a red flower to make it look sharp.
Any good ideas or tips for capturing red flowers?

Any comments always welcome.

[James G]

Andre,
IMHO i think your posted image looks pretty good. If I was to do anything I would apply the vibrance/luminance adjustment change outlined at the end of this reply.

But, not sure if this will help but try playing around with the following workflow I use for processing raw captures with 'intense/highly saturated' elements.... (I capture in raw and use ACR/PS6 to process, but similar workflow is possible with LR4)

1) Open raw file and in ACR reduce highlights before adjusting anything else. Keep an eye on the detail that 'returns' in the areas you are interested. (This will tend to reduce the saturation of the most intense colours.)
2) Now increase the whites in combination with exposure to brighten the image while retaining detail.
3) Next, alter the shadows to lighten or darken the midtones.
4) Finally, examine the blacks and adjust using the black slider.

I usually then add a clarity adjustment to enhance edges (particularly in the more saturated areas).

Another technique that might help is to simply up the vibrance and apply a luminance blend. If you apply max vibrance (horrible before changing the blending), you can then reduce the %opacity to control the intensity. This tends to enhance surface/tonal texture.

[pnodrog]

Within the constrains of the size of the file you can present on CiC there seems to be no problem with sharpness. You could possibly make it a bit more dramatic by pulling down the curves a bit in the shadow (even just the green channel) area but it is very much a matter of personal preference where you take it from what you have presented. It is a delicate subject and to much punch or over sharpening can spoil it.

It is strange how as we improve as photographers fewer and fewer of our photographs leave us completely satisfied where as more and more are deemed as good by others.

[chauncey]

Andre, there is nothing in that image that I dislike...the background made the image in that it shows great contrast with the rose. If memory serves me, you shoot in jpeg and do no PP...good job regardless.

[jprzybyla]

Hello Andre, I had a go with the image you posted. Try being more aggressive with your sharpening, also increase the clarity slider in the Basic Module in Lightroom to about 25 on the image you posted. I will post my results with your permission.

[Geoff F]

Shooting some shades of red, or purple, can be very tricky. I've just been engaged in the same struggle. And I'm not happy with the result.

So for what it is worth:

Do a Custom White Balance. Avoid direct sun. If possible, don't use flash. Meter directly from the flower (spot meter) or use a bit of exposure compensation. Don't worry too much if the background goes over dark, this can be recovered later.

Shooting indoors with controlled lighting often gives better results than 'real life' outside shots. But natural outside conditions are often the only option.

Some times, flash is the only answer but try to avoid direct flash. If unavoidable, use some flash output compensation.

Take 2 or 3 shots at the same time but with different exposures (as for HDR bracketing etc). If this can't be done, I shoot Raw then make two conversions with different conversion settings and combine with masking. Slightly backing off with the red channel saturation can help.

When using Curves etc for editing do this on a layer, or adjustment layer, and vary the layer blend mode to suit. Using Luminosity blend can be helpful.

Sharpen selectively. Sharpening on a layer with an edited mask can vary the effect.

And after all that; I'm still not at all happy with my efforts!

I will be posting the results in my Weekly Photos thread soon.

[Dave Humphries]

Hi Andre,

It looks like you avoided the 'usual cause' - that of clipping the red channel, so moving on ...

My thoughts support the ideas of a few others here; increase clarity - or apply Local Contrast Enhancement (LCE).

I wonder if the bold red colour, because it already leaps off the screen at us, makes us (all) liable to think an image like this doesn't need clarity/LCE - but I think, to get what you're looking for, it may.

However, particularly on this image, where there are some quite bright droplets which could easily end up looking 'over processed', applying the LCE with a separate layer and mask, or clarity via an adjustment brush (so it is only applied precisely where needed), would be wise.

HTH,

[AB26]

If memory serves me, you shoot in jpeg and do no PP...good job regardless.

Not quite. Gone past the stage of shooting JPEG only, now shooting RAW only and enhancing in ACDsee.
Not CS6 or Lightroom, no layers and many a fancy function but it can do most of what I need to do.

Thank you for the compliment.

[AB26]

I will post my results with your permission.

Joe, I have no more hang-ups about my images. You are more than welcome to do what you like and post.

[CBImages]

Hi Andre
It is a lovely image, well composed and exposed.

Someone mentioned the possibility of colour channel clipping but I don't see any evidence of the in your image, my thoughts are similar to another persons reply - it would benefit from a aggressive sharpening. You could really push the sharpening as the image is such high quality.
I am not familiar with your software ACDsee as I use Lightroom and Photoshop so I'm not sure if you have access to a filter called 'Unsharp Mask'?

I perform my output sharpening in 2 stages, each targeting a different part of the image - high frequency (fine detail) and low frequency (not so fine detail), using this method I find I can make my images really 'pop'!
Be sure to resize your image to its finished output size first i.e. 800px x 600px at 72dpi or 15" x 10" at 300 dpi - or whatever your output size is.

Then make copy of your image - so you don't sharpen your finished image - this allows you to fine tune your sharpening using masks (if required).

Using 'unsharp mask' use the following settings to sharpen the low frequency detail first:
Amount 20
Detail (to your choice starting around 40 and going up as high as you feel it is producing the results you are happy with).
Threshold 4

When you are happy then click apply.
Now use Unsharp Mask a second time, this time we are going to sharpen the fine detail (high frequency), use the following settings.

Amount (your choice, go as high as you need to get the effect you are after)
Detail 0.5 - 1.0
Threshold 0.4

Click apply and admire your newly sharpened image.
If you feel it is too sharp in some areas, create a layer mask and paint on the mask using a soft edged black brush with the opacity set at 10%. Keep painting of the area that is too sharp until it acceptable, if you go too far then change to a white brush and paint again to reduce the effect of the mask.

I'm sure by using the above technique you will soon make your rose 'pop' from the screen and look it's very best.

[AB26]

Thank you All for the advice, it is much appreciated.

I applied some of the ideas and played around with another red flower, in ACDSee.
This image is still not what I am looking to achieve, it lacks “punch” and there seems to be horizontal lines running trough it, anybody know what that might be?

Well, I will capture another couple of images with different camera settings and then apply some of the your ideas.

[jprzybyla]

Hello Andre, here is what your image looks like with more aggressive sharpening and increasing the clarity in Lightroom.

[AB26]

Hello Andre, here is what your image looks like with more aggressive sharpening and increasing the clarity in Lightroom.

Thanks Joe. That is really nice, I like it.

[Polar01]

Andre you got a great capture of that red rose, reds especially, you got everything that the camera was able to deliver. Now I have never heard of ACDsee only the band ACDC, so I looked them up to see what they were all about. Photo processing programs are like tripod were think what we have works great until we push it to it's limit. Then we are found wanting, in this case that program may have gone as far as it is able too as you are not able to get that vision you have in our mind's eye. The only solutions are is to push ourselves to get the max that the program will give or look from something else that will deliver that vision. Best of luck in quest for that vision.

Cheers:

Allan

[Geoff F]

I did use a fairly early version of ACDSee for checking downloads from my camera to sort out the obvious no hope shots when I shot Jpeg or Raw and Jpeg. It was good for that and a few other resizing jobs etc.

Also good when searching for specific images to use on various projects etc.

But since getting ACR I use Bridge for these jobs and have removed ACDSee.

There was some basic image enhancement plus a more extensive photo editing programme which I think was called Canvas. But I may have got the name wrong.

I only tried the free reduced option which seemed OK but wasn't quite as good as what I was already using then.

[Digital]

Andre, I really like the shot of the rose.


Bruce

[Wavelength]

What an enchanting beauty !!!
Thanks for sharing

[Bobobird]

Andre, I think the image is brilliant.

But as Paul said, as we improve the more we deem our stuff as not up to scratch. Something along similar lines that I mentioned in one of my threads a while back.

Problem now is if people deem it good and we ourselves feel there is something off or missing - what should we do about it or can?

It is strange how as we improve as photographers fewer and fewer of our photographs leave us completely satisfied where as more and more are deemed as good by others.