Formatt Hitech filter holders?

[CBImages]

I don't think it makes economic sense for filter manufacturers to invest in design, developing and the installation of specialist, automated manufacturing equipment, the market is not big enough for them to recoup their investment.
With the advent of digital cameras and readily available software the 'need' for filters has reduced considerably with the exception of the polarizer, after all exposure can be maintained in high contrast scenes by bracketing. I would argue that bracketing and skillful blending produces a superior image than using graduated filters especially where objects protrude above the horizon.
The use of grad filters is a dying art and is only maintained by a few die hards and those who relish a challenge.

Most, if not all of the filter manufactures earn the greatest proportion of their income from other areas - Lee makes most of their money from the sale of light correcting gel to the tv and film industry.
Schneider/B&W/Tiffen are primarily manufactures of lenses and optical accessories.

So I'm not sure it is viable for them to invest too much in a process that doesn't have much room to grow and therefore service the debt when current methods of manufacture are producing good quality products at a reasonable cost.

Maybe manufacturers other than Lee have some manufacturing process that can be adapted to suit filter making and thus automate the making of filters in a cost effective way. Lee's skill lies in their knowledge of controlling light through various coatings to gel and their venture into filter making was not anticipated to be as successful as it has become.
They have invested in a new extension to increase capacity but this is small change compared to full scale automation of the process.

Maybe it's just us Brits being our normal, eccentric selves ;-)

[Manfred M]

I don't think it makes economic sense for filter manufacturers to invest in design, developing and the installation of specialist, automated manufacturing equipment, the market is not big enough for them to recoup their investment.

Automation covers a lot of different approaches. A simple 100% mechanical dip system would not cost a lot (likely considerably less than the labour they are currently using). Throw in some basic circulating pumps, temperature control and optical in-process sensors run by a simple PLC (Programmable Logic Controller). A bit more sophistication would be required to keep the dye concentrations at optimal levels. A fully automated production line with automated material loading and unloading; that would probably not be economically viable for the volumes they are producing.
Again, I’ve been in this type of business for decades, and ROI (return on investment) is the first thing I look at when looking at fixing production problems.

With the advent of digital cameras and readily available software the 'need' for filters has reduced considerably with the exception of the polarizer, after all exposure can be maintained in high contrast scenes by bracketing. I would argue that bracketing and skillful blending produces a superior image than using graduated filters especially where objects protrude above the horizon.

The use of grad filters is a dying art and is only maintained by a few die hards and those who relish a challenge.

Of course you are assuming that you’re the highlights have not been blown in the shot. This is the primary reason I use grads; and incidentally, I only started using the when I went to digital. Yes, one can apply a grad in post, but not all the time.

Most, if not all of the filter manufactures earn the greatest proportion of their income from other areas - Lee makes most of their money from the sale of light correcting gel to the tv and film industry.
Schneider/B&W/Tiffen are primarily manufactures of lenses and optical accessories.

Schneider is primarily a lens maker (although they also have an industrial division that manufactures hydraulic components, as well as industrial optics). B+W is wholly owned by Schneider. Tiffen has very much become a holding company in the photography field.

So I'm not sure it is viable for them to invest too much in a process that doesn't have much room to grow and therefore service the debt when current methods of manufacture are producing good quality products at a reasonable cost.

Unfortunately Lee has developed a reputation of not being able to keep up with demand; which tends to be indicative of a number of different manufacturing issues. Pretty well every time I have gone looking for some Lee filters or accessories, at least one or two of the items I was trying to buy was on back order from the factory.

Maybe it's just us Brits being our normal, eccentric selves ;-)

And every British manufacturing engineer I’ve spoken to generally is unhappy with the attitude for capital investment by their companies, versus say the Germans or Americans. I’m not sure if this is a tax issue or a throwback to the 1980s, 1990s and beyond when organized labour resisted any form of modernization in the factories in the UK.

I remember having a conversation with an engineering team from the Royal Mail, who had a lot of automation equipment ready to deploy, but it was not being installed because of labour union pressure to prevent it being rolled out. This is technology that the Germans had been using since the 1990s (I was working for Deutsche Post as a consultant at the time and was involved with the information and production management systems that were interfacing with this equipment) and the Americans even earlier.

[CBImages]

Unfortunately Lee has developed a reputation of not being able to keep up with demand; which tends to be indicative of a number of different manufacturing issues. Pretty well every time I have gone looking for some Lee filters or accessories, at least one or two of the items I was trying to buy was on back order from the factory.

And every British manufacturing engineer I’ve spoken to generally is unhappy with the attitude for capital investment by their companies, versus say the Germans or Americans. I’m not sure if this is a tax issue or a throwback to the 1980s, 1990s and beyond when organized labour resisted any form of modernization in the factories in the UK.

I remember having a conversation with an engineering team from the Royal Mail, who had a lot of automation equipment ready to deploy, but it was not being installed because of labour union pressure to prevent it being rolled out. This is technology that the Germans had been using since the 1990s (I was working for Deutsche Post as a consultant at the time and was involved with the information and production management systems that were interfacing with this equipment) and the Americans even earlier.

....... The back order situation was due to production ceasing while the new extension was being built. Lots of rumours were flying around suggesting it was a supply/demand marketing ploy to create demand and raise prices but these were untrue. However I suspect it might have helped their cause as it may have created a 'must have' mentality among some photographers who joined the growing swell those waiting for filters on back orders.

Are you still experiencing a long delay in having your orders fulfilled Manfred?
I understood waiting lists are now down to a few days for some stores possible weeks in others rather than months. Here in the UK I can usually find somewhere that has filters in stock by searching the internet. A friend bought some 2 weeks ago and he found them in stock.
It's the Big Stopper that seems to be the most difficult to find in stock.

Yes I agree that we Brits do seem to have a problem with 'progress', we like to stick to the traditional ways - unless changing means making more money!
Management procrastinate about spending money and the workforce worry about loosing their jobs to machines.
It's the same for every country but we do seem to have to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century. lol

We do seem to have wandered off topic don't we?
"Hi tech Filter Holders"

I'm njoying that debate though

[CBImages]

Unfortunately Lee has developed a reputation of not being able to keep up with demand; which tends to be indicative of a number of different manufacturing issues. Pretty well every time I have gone looking for some Lee filters or accessories, at least one or two of the items I was trying to buy was on back order from the factory.

And every British manufacturing engineer I’ve spoken to generally is unhappy with the attitude for capital investment by their companies, versus say the Germans or Americans. I’m not sure if this is a tax issue or a throwback to the 1980s, 1990s and beyond when organized labour resisted any form of modernization in the factories in the UK.

I remember having a conversation with an engineering team from the Royal Mail, who had a lot of automation equipment ready to deploy, but it was not being installed because of labour union pressure to prevent it being rolled out. This is technology that the Germans had been using since the 1990s (I was working for Deutsche Post as a consultant at the time and was involved with the information and production management systems that were interfacing with this equipment) and the Americans even earlier.

....... The back order situation was due to production ceasing while the new extension was being built. Lots of rumours were flying around suggesting it was a supply/demand marketing ploy to create demand and raise prices but these were untrue. However I suspect it might have helped their cause as it may have created a 'must have' mentality among some photographers who joined the growing swell those waiting for filters on back orders.

Are you still experiencing a long delay in having your orders fulfilled Manfred?
I understood waiting lists are now down to a few days for some stores possible weeks in others rather than months. Here in the UK I can usually find somewhere that has filters in stock by searching the internet. A friend bought some 2 weeks ago and he found them in stock.
It's the Big Stopper that seems to be the most difficult to find in stock.

Yes I agree that we Brits do seem to have a problem with 'progress', we like to stick to the traditional ways - unless changing means making more money!
Management procrastinate about spending money and the workforce worry about loosing their jobs to machines.
It's the same for every country but we do seem to have to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century. lol

We do seem to have wandered off topic don't we?
"Hi tech Filter Holders"

I'm enjoying that debate though.

[Manfred M]

These threads commonly wander off topic a bit.

No, I can't say I've seen a dramatic improvement of Lee's in stock situation. This time I had to wait for a 0.3 resin ND (which would have been affected by the expansion). Fortunately, it was only back ordered 2 weeks and it arrived last week; which is good because I will be leaving on a trip this week and will be taking it.

The last time I wanted to get their 105mm round polarizer and I gave up after 6 weeks (this was in September) and ended up getting the Sigma instead (same specs for a lot less money). I couldn't get the 77mm wide angle adaptor ring (got the regular because it was in stock), but it was available last week, so I ordered it and it arrived. The regular holder does cause some vignetting at the wide end on the f/2.8 24-70mm lens.

The problem is, of course that I don't know if this is a Lee problem or one with the importer. While the entire factory can be affected by the expansion and one does have to shuffle things around; the filter making facility should be in a different building from the machine shop that is turning out adaptor rings and the filter holders. I assume that the filter cases are likely produced off-shore, so that shortage could have been a supply chain issue, rather than a local production issue (I don't know if those are produced by Lee).

[mknittle]

It's cloudy today so I don't need a filter anyway
"Off topic" not really I asked for opinions.
Having worked in "production" and specialty shops mostly as a machinist, You both have valid points. this makes the debate interesting as it is not a one sided argument.



Mark

[CBImages]

Yes my understanding is that the filter holders and adapters are all sourced from external suppliers.
You may be right about the lack of supply being an import problem.

The circular polariser is a huge beast, I was quite taken aback when mine arrived and then to discover it sits in front of any filters rather than behind them was another shock. I suppose polarising the light before it travels through any filters is a logical argument however it does require some kind of cloth to be wrapped around the filter holder to make absolutely no light gets in between the filters.
I'm still not convinced the benefits outweigh the disadvantages of the Lee system.

[Polar01]

My solution is an extra holder, it only has one slot and then the ring for the 105mm CP filter. this is also the holder that I use for my 10 stop. The other holder is set up to allow three GND filter to be used also purchased and additional 105 ring and mounted it also, however I think that I have only used this rig with the CP filter once.
If I need some piece and they have it, I will order from the Canadian supplier and only if I am going into Toronto on some other business. If I can wait a bit I will then order from my supplier in NH great prices and service. Just as a side note all shipments to North America go to the distributor in CA, even the Canadian orders which are then cross shipped to the Canadian distributor in Toronto because of the numbers.

Cheers:

Allan

[mknittle]

Meanwhile back at the ranch I found a closer look at the subject at hand

http://dancarrphotography.com/blog/2...holder-review/






Mark,

[Manfred M]

Meanwhile back at the ranch I found a closer look at the subject at hand

http://dancarrphotography.com/blog/2...holder-review/




Mark,

Thanks Mark - it looks to be a well-made piece of equipment.

While in general, I do like a screwless concept, in this case, I think it has been poorly implemented as one will constantly bump into the screws / nuts when rotating the polarizing filter. As they protrude and there is a higher risk of scratching the actual filters with this design. I would think installing them the other way round might make more sense. but they are still going to catch on things.

[mknittle]

I am just one of those that once I am curious about something I find as much info as I can. even if I end up not liking it.