New Camera Advice

[saklak]

Hi all,
first of all, I'm new to this forum and thanks alot for the tutorials and great advices
you give in this forum, very helpful and last sorry for my english not a native speaker.

My first and only camera is a fujifilm av200. But is very weak I believe, colors are
awful, the digital image stabilization same awful ( most of my images are blured because
of hand shaking, for most photos I use the 2sec time to get a clear picture, would a viewfinder
help to hold the camera still when taking photos?) and a few other things...

I have a small budget up to $300, I will mostly use it in vacation or weekends. Having in mind that
black Friday is coming was thinking to an upgrade. I know I have lots to learn and camera is not
all you need, I want to learn but when you have control only over iso is pretty difficult. I'm also afraid
that I wont have the time to learn and I'll buy a camera and I'll make the same photos like before.

If you need any other info let me know. Looking forward to hear your advices.

[chauncey]

http://reviews.cnet.com/best-megazoom-cameras/

[ajohnw]

I use this site for cameras of this sort. Where they offer raw it can be very instructive to download it and try to match or better the jpg.

http://www.photographyblog.com/revie...review/rivals/

Sorry. The other post made me assume that you used a bridge camera. I don't know of a site that does thorough tests of compacts other than maybe steve's

http://www.steves-digicams.com/camera-reviews/

The only IS that is suitable for 2 sec exposures or anything remotely like it is a tripod. Colour and noise wise you might do better to expose for longer with a lower ISO setting AND a tripod.

John
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[saklak]

@ajohnw no I didn't use a bridge camera, I'm trying to see if I need one and if I find one at that price.

about IS you didn't understood, I don't try to make pictures having 2 sec exposures( it is way too much for me
and my camera ), I'm trying to make a normal one but because of poor IS and hand shake I ended up using
Self-timer which has 2 and 10 seconds ...
here's my old camera http://www.fujifilm.com/support/digi...finepix_av200/

Thanks for the links both of you, I'll have closer look.

[ajohnw]

If that is the problem and the delayed release helps it might pay to think squeeze the shutter release rather than press it. It needs a smooth controlled movement.

On your current camera digital image stabilisation usually means software rather than the real thing which will usually be called optical image stabilisation or refer to something like that in the literature. I do feel that a viewfinder helps as people who just use a screen often shoot with their arms well stretched out. An articulated screen is useful though - say shooting from waist level or in situation where the camera view finder just can't be used.

John
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[jcuknz]

My source [www.dpreview.com] suggests that your current camera does not have any image stabilisation but it does mention that you have continuous drive, rather slow at 1.2pictures per second, but it would be worth using this feature to see if subsequent exposures to the first one are any sharper than the first. So if the new camera you are considering has a faster 'burst rate' that might help. Holding the camera to your face and looking through an Electronic Viewfinder rather than the LCD with bent arms holding the camera is said to be a better way of working.

A lot of camera shake comes less from the hands but how the finger operates the trigger and rather than pressing it in you should learn to half press it and wait for the camera to tell you it is ready before completing full pressure to actually take the photo ... in all this the word 'caress' describes the operation better than 'press' or 'punch' .... you might/should find you can get quite useful images out of your av200 if you pay attention to this

The other suggestion is that often there are firm things like tables and chairs from which take photos from, brick wall top or holding camera firmly against vertical sides which can help... for the camera of the size you are likely to get a small plastic 'mini-tripod' could be another answer for you. You already know about the 2 second release, which I assumed you were using before you confirmed it, but in these situations I use the 10 second release and after pressing the trigger I leave the camera untouched [ or just firmly holding my mini-tripod against a wall or post until the camera has taken the photo ] ... obviously not practicable for action photos but for the static shot it works well and the camera doesn't suffer from my body being involved

Then there is post processing and there are a couple of quite competant and very competant free programmes for downloading Paint dot Net and GIMP respectively .... both will sharpen up a marginally blurred image to make it acceptable and adjust colours somewhat. I have P.N along with my Paint Shop Pro and found, perhaps becuase I have some experience, I can get very similar results from P.N as PSP.... PSP is comparable to Photoshop.

I do not follow as to where 'RO' is but if you can access Amazon USA you will find two or three year old PSP programmes at quite reasonable prices [ ie PSPx3, some call that PSP13 ] and at your stage the latest would be of no greater value though I would avoid low number Elements programmes but PSP has been great from version 8 onwards if not before in those days
One note of caution ... such programmes are rather complicated to start with but it is worthwhile hanging in and learning to use them ... A simple 'easy' programme will never do very much for you.

[jcuknz]

As for an actual camera I would suggest with Black Friday coming up you look for a Panasonic FZ, from personal use of them until recently, within your budget and if you get it for starters use Ai mode until the gradually learning how to use the rest of the options. Even a second hand one in good condition would be worth considering ...I had/have the FZ20-FZ30-FZ50 as you see from my avatar Those models are rather bigger than the av200 which also helps with stability.
My wife still uses her FZ3 which I bought for her when I got my first FZ20 and I think it is a fabulous camera if a bit dated and limited now nearly ten years old.
I took this shot with it when we were on holiday as my camera was upstairs last year.

[ajohnw]

I don't like suggesting cameras but the Canon SX50 HS might be in your price range. It has a very very long zoom range and getting IS to work with that at the long end needs decent light to give a sensible shutter speed. I believe there is also a version that doesn't zoom to such a long focal length. Could be an even better option and cheaper.

On a budget it's best to avoid the very latest versions of cameras. Best time to catch them really is when the price is knocked down because there is a new model coming out. Factory refurbs are also a good buy. The canon I mentioned has been out for maybe 12 months now and the shorter zoom length one longer.

John
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[jcuknz]

Further thoughts .. which I should have put first becuase it is the first thing you should do ...
This is to establish if you have a bad camera or if it is operator problem.
You do this by placing the camera on a firm support so it will not move of its own.
Set release to 10 seconds
Press trigger and leave camera to itself until it takes the photo.
Examin resulting file in your computer.
If it is good then you need to practice what I said earlier and you may not need a new camera .. but getting a new camera is fun To help you follow my suggestions the mini-tripod is both quite cheap and effective. My camera is rather heavier and I have an aluminium version but earlier with a much lighter camera I was using a plastic version with a small ballhead.
This Fungi I followed its development over a period a a couple of years and fortuneately no vandels damaged it but I am sure your av200 could take the same if it was mounted on a mini-tripod and the slow shutter speed resulting from low light was compensated for by you, as I did, simply holding the mini against the side of the crevase during the 10 second countdown and exposure.



As far as Post processing is concerned ... I do not judge results directly out of the camera ... only after they have passed through my editor. Camera and editor are companion tools towards getting the final result in the digital age if you want to be more than a snap-shooter [ and even if that is your aim the editor should make your snaps better]and eventually you may want to use RAW [ which the av200 doesn't have] but until you are getting pretty good results using jpg I don't see any need for RAW. Some think RAW is a silver bullet to great shots ... unfortunately there are a lot of other things involved

[saklak]

@jcuknz thanks for suggestions, I'll try to use continuous mode to see if I get any better pictures. when you are talking about half press I think you talk about focus right ? I already do that otherwise I can delete that photo ( half press till I get green lines), well my only problem is not only the camera shaking... 3x zoom is also weak ( not saying that digital zoom is disabled - useless) - I know a little bit of photoshop have used it on a few images but I still need more practice. RO - Romania, eastern europe not having access to Amazon unless I really want to but here I got local options and I would rather avoid using Amazon.

@ajohnw I was wrong about the budget, wrong calculation with local currency. so I would have up to $400. but your camera $599 looks nice but is a over my budget. I doubt that the price will drop that much to enter my budget

within my budget with a viewfinder I see
fuji S8200 - $360
fuji HS 25EXR - $300

and Canon SX500 IS $300 and a Nikon both without a viewfinder.

I really like what I read about Sony CyberShot DSC-HX200V but now is not available
and I doubt that will be till black friday, idk for what reason.

so in the end,I'm trying to see what my best choice.

[saklak]

@jcuknz well this time you really said it - "getting a new camera is fun" - indeed it is. my camera has also a few problems, not recognizing the card everytime. so it's time to change

[jcuknz]

For somebody else in Romania I suggested checking out Amazon UK which since you are in the European Union means no duties ... just higher prices when compared to Amazon USA. I found a micro four thirds Panasonic G3 in your budget limit back then two or three weeks ago which apart from the fact it only had a x3 zoom, 28-84mm effective angle of view would serve you very well and with its larger sensor. Now I have been using MFT for nearly two years now I would suggest MFT knocks the socks off any P&S or bridge camera unless you have real need of the Super-Zoom. I was using the G3 until I changed to the GH2 which is not to be considered for your budget.

https://www.amazon.co.uk

Just looked and camera still being advertised ... is UKP240 in your budget?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Panasonic-DM...onic+g3+camera

If some time in the future with more cash you did want more reach it is possible you would find older and long lenses second/hand locally which with an adaptor to the camera [ usually around $20 ] would work ... a path I am currently going down Our local NZ auction site has dozens of reasonably priced longer lenses, I guess Romania is similar?

I now have 920mm reach with the bigger MFT sensor now with my latest purchase [ NZ$15 ] using a longish lens from film days. That means I can 1/4 crop for 1850 reach and still have better IQ than a super-zoom [1200 reach], though I don't have stabilisation so will need to use my monopod.

PS. Amazon UK sent me an invitation today [Nov13] for a copy of PSPx2 which seems a very attractive price of UKP12.00 and would do pretty much all you needed to do for quite awhile.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B...011_em_1p_2_ti

[saklak]

Your suggestion is awesome I believe, because of the big sensor. Just that using amazon it takes around 2 weeks to get to me
and waiting for it is a pain . that is not all, I'm afraid also that if it breaks or something it takes again forever to send it there and wait to get back ( even transport costs are big ).

You probably entered to much into technical details with me ( I had to read about all of them to understand what you are saying ) but now thinking of what you suggest would be the best sollution for me at the budget I have. The camera is a little
over my budget and I'm not sure anymore if I should invest that money in a camera.

Reading reviews and technical things I get more and more disappointed and hopeless that I'll find a good camera in my budget. Lots of MP and now super zoom cameras ( at list at this price ) are nothing but marketing things and must admit I got tricked by both of them.

[saklak]

I've got a good offer for a canon 1100D (EF-S 18-55mm DC III) kit. what do you think about this camera, I know I read
somewhere to stay away from it. if you were to choose between dmc-g3 and this one which one you would choose ?

[ajohnw]

I would love to know what some one reckoned should put you off the Canon. Looking at it's capabilities bearing in mind price I couldn't see anything amiss. Maybe it was the only 12mp aspect. I would be inclined to forget that if I were you.

As to the G3 it's a different type of animal. The extra pixels in real terms do not amount to much if anything at all.

The main difference between the 2 cameras is the size of the lenses and weight of a kitted out camera. The G3 has a crop factor of 2. The Canon 1.6. Say you wanted to do wild life photo's so wanted to be able to reach 500mm in full frame terms. The G3 would need a 250mm lens and the Canon a 312mm lens - 300mm is nearest. It doesn't sound much different but say they were both F4, the extra 50mm focal length makes the diameter of the lens bigger as well so the weight goes up due to size and extra glass.

The G3 is mirrorless and that does allow it to do some things the other camera can't do. Many of these are due to the fact that it really is live view even in the viewfinder but if manual focusing is needed that has it's drawbacks.

There is currently a much wider range of lenses available for the Canon. Don't be put off by any of them coming in a kit. Kit lenses are a much maligned subject largely due to Canon's very early DSLR days. They have had to do something about that as the pixel counts went up.

I have now completely switched to micro 4/3. Olympus not Panasonic. I think as you are starting out the Canon would be your best bet as I feel that with micro 4/3 there is a need to study the manuals carefully to make sure you can do what you will want to do with them and it's rather difficult to do that without experience of other cameras. This may be a jaundiced view based on purchasing an E-PL1 to see what the format was like, used with 1000 shots taken, it's well over 1500 now, then a new E-P3 for better controls that I will continue to use and then an OMD-EM5. I feel you would be on much firmer ground buying the Canon. No doubt some will disagree having the Panasonic and being perfectly happy with it. I went for Olympus because I like the huge torturous menu's they come with and had a feeling which looks to be true that they would offer better quality lenses. With their lenses in body image stability is essential on many of them. Panasonic lenses can be used on them too. Going down the Olympus route though unless you are happy to use the cameras compact wise via the rear screen is a little expensive too much so in my view. I wouldn't advise that route for other reasons as well and am not familiar with there latest range of that type of camera anyway. As to the OMD-EM5 Olympus may have reached perfection on the OMD-EM1 but if I had anything to do with designing the EM5 I am sure I could make better use of the controls that are on it. I'm happy with it anyway but notice that aspect from time to time.

John
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