NIK Workflow?

[ShaneS]

I am currently working with the trial version of the NIK package and have a question for others that use it.

When utilizing the plugins how much other processing do you perform before/after activating the plugin?

In my limited time working with the software it seems to me that with all the different presets that are available that only minimal pre-processing is necessary. My workflow has been to process the image from RAW in ACR and then use the appropriate plug-in and then bring it back into CS5 for fine tuning along the lines of dodging and burning, etc.

What do others do? Do you layer the NIK plugins or do you tend to just use one plug in per image? eg. Color Efex followed by Silver Efex, sharpening, noise reduction etc.

Thanks in advance.

[Donald]

I'm sort of with you, Shane.

One question is why you go back to CS5 for burning and dodging. You can do this as precisely (if not more so) with things like brightness sliders on Color Efex and Silver Efex.

I first learned on here (from a wise old New Zealander!!) about doing as much work as possible on the RAW file, particularly in terms of exposure, lighting, etc. You've got all the data there to work with.

I do as much as I possibly can at the RAW conversion stage (I use DxO Optics Pro 8). Then, using Elements 11 purely as a mule to carry the NIK suite of plug-ins (I do nothing with Elements 11 itself) I will either go straight to Silver Efex Pro2 or, depending on the file and what I want to achieve, via Viveza and/or Color Efex Pro. But I end up in Silver Efex Pro2.

And then I finish in the GIMP for resizing and output sharpening. Why not do that in Elements 11? Because I started off using the GIMP, feel a sense of loyalty to it and think it's got the best options for output sharpening (Wavelet Sharpening) and resizing.

[dje]

Hi Shane

I'm a relative newcomer to the Nik software and am still feeling my way. Generally I leave any Nik processing until the last step. I'll process the image in ACR/CS6 until I'm fairly happy with it and then decide whether there is a need to use the Nik software. Often I don't use it - I tend to use it only if I think the image could do with a bit of a lift from ColourEfex or whether there would be benefit in using the powerful Control Point functionality in Viveza to process parts of the image further. Of course if I'm looking at a B&W conversion I'll employ SilverEfex.

With CS6, opening one of the Nik plug-ins seems to automatically create the processed version on a duplicate layer. If you use more than one plug-in, it will create a separate duplicate layer for each one, based on the layer below it. So you end up with a series of layers that can be individually turned on or off at will. But they can't be edited later - Smart Objects must be used if you want to do this.

Dave

[davidedric]

I follow a similar workflow, too. My main pp tool is Lightroom, and I do try and get the image as right as I can there before going to Nik. Because I call the plug-ins from LR, there is no need of a mule, and no help/complications from layers; just a (16 bit) TIFF generated by LR, passed to Nik, and passed back with changes.

I'm still not very familiar with the Nik tools, and I do find that I sometimes do a bit of tweaking once I get it back in LR.

I've wondered about playing with Smart Objects in PSE, so that I can re-edit the Nik changes (I think that's possible), but for the moment I'm staying away from that complication, plus afaik PSE still doesn't handle 16 bit images through the product.

Incidentally, I set up the plug-ins when I knew even less about colour spaces than I do now. I've just noticed that I am creating the TIFF in sRGB. Think I'd better change it to ProPhoto!

Dave

[Donald]

I've wondered about playing with Smart Objects in PSE,

PSE doesn't allow external plug-ins as smart objects (much to my great annoyance). You only get that option with the full-blown Photoshop.

However, I am a subscriber at the Plugin site and have Elements XXL loaded onto my Elements 11. Why, you ask, does he do this if he doesn't use Elements. Because, he says, a future version will be able to make 3rd party plug-ins; e.g. NIK, smart objects.

I await the day with great anticipation. Why? Becuase even though I'm not one to go back and re-edit once I've decided I've finished making an image, there will be the times when you see how a small adjustment could be made and not have to go back to the beginning in order to effect it at the same time as having to do everything all over again. The danger lies, I think, in never being satisfied and forever tweaking.

[Mike Buckley]

I still haven't used anything in my Nik suite of tools and don't even know how to access them even though I installed them. However, I'm very confident that the workflow regarding the use of Silver Efex is that everything should be done to the color version to get it looking as good as possible before using Silver Efex. So Silver Efex should be used only for converting to black-and-white, fine tuning the image in its black-and-white state, output sharpening and saving. That should be the most effective workflow for black-and-white photos regardless of the software that we use.

Once I do get into Silver Efex, I'll purchase Jason Odell's eBook explaining how to use it. He also has an eBook pertaining to Color Efex. The three eBooks I have purchased from him have been terrific. He runs 20%-off sales from time to time, so you might want to wait until that happens if you become interested in any of his eBooks.

[bambleweeney]

Me, I treat the Nik plugin like any other layer. I sometimes use a plugin (I only use one or two of the effects anyhow) near the start of the processing, sometimes half way through and sometimes towards the end before sharpening the image. I also nearly always use the plug ins with a layer mask particulary Silver Efex where I might want different processing for foreground/background etc. Really depends on the image but generally, thinking about it, the majority of plugin layers are in the latter part of any post processing. Yep, I quite often stack them as well sometimes using different blend modes and if I'm using the (excellent) HDR Efex then that's usually at the bottom of the heap.

[rpcrowe]

I start, right off the bat, adjusting my image in ACR. Some images need more adjustment than others but, I usually can get things pretty close in ACR. I then open NIK. I wish that there were keyboard strokes which would allow me to open NIK and select one of the filter sets (Are there any I don't know of?) and use Dfine and the Raw Input Sharpener...

After the initial sharpening, I use a combination of Vivesa (mainly) and sometimes Color Efex Pro filters to work on my image using global adjustments and then using the control points for local adjustments... If I want a B&W image, I won't work with Silver Efex Pro until I have my master image completed.

Sometimes I revert to CS6 for some tweaking with the Clone Tool, the Spot Healing Tool and the Burn and Dodge Tools (although I am using these last two tools less and less as I grow more proficient with NIK.)..

When all my editing is finished Except For Sizing, Cropping and Output Sharpening I will save the image as a PSD Master. Then when I need a specific output, I can open that master, resize it, crop it and apply final Output Sharpening (using NIK) and save the image as a JPEG or a TIFF, depending on my needs at the moment...

I will also wait until I have a master image saved before I do any major changes like converting to B&W, applying a dramatic filter or framing the image.

I always have the Master Image untouched so I can go back to it at any time and produce the size and cropping that I need...

This works quite well for me...

[davidedric]

I'll purchase Jason Odell's eBook explaining how to use it. He also has an eBook pertaining to Color Efex.

I'm a bit of a book and video junkie (I know, should get out more...), so I decided to get the video version of Mr Odell's Silver Efex stuff. First impressions are good, but on thing that surprised me was the section on preparing an image for B&W processing, where he did NOT recommend getting the best colour image possible before moving to SEP.

Don't want to hijack this thread, so can anyone tell me if there is a thread or threads anywhere that discuss this?

Dave

[Donald]

I'm a bit of a book and video junkie (I know, should get out more...), so I decided to get the video version of Mr Odell's Silver Efex stuff. First impressions are good, but on thing that surprised me was the section on preparing an image for B&W processing, where he did NOT recommend getting the best colour image possible before moving to SEP.

Don't want to hijack this thread, so can anyone tell me if there is a thread or threads anywhere that discuss this?

Don't know about any other threads on this Dave.

On the question itself - Indeed, my understanding was that it was proper procedure to get the colour image right before conversion to B & W. The important point is that 'getting it right' is not the same thing as getting it correct. It's getting it right for the B & W conversion that you want to make. So, some colour files that have been converted look very odd in colour.

Nor does that obviate, in my book anyway, the need for correct colour balancing. I use a WhiBal card even though I know I'm converting to B & W. I like to start the whole process from the correct starting point. Probably totally pedantic, but, well, just me!

However, I do think the game changes when we start talking Nik Silver Efex Pro. Because not only do you have the 5 colour filters, on which you can adjust the Hue and Strength to your heart's content, but in the 'Film Types' dialogue you have the 6 Sensitivity sliders for Red, Yellow, Green, Cyan, Blue & Violet. Although your working on grey tones, the colour data is still in the file and can be worked by those Sensitivity sliders. So you're seeing in real time (i.e. on a grey tone) what an adjustment to, say, the Cyan slider will make. It's great.

I don't often use the filters but do make extensive use of the Sensitivity sliders.

So, my workflow has now adjusted significantly in that I don't do all the work I used to do on the colour file to 'get it right' for the conversion. It all gets done in SEP2. Great tool.

[Mike Buckley]

With regard to Dave's question about workflow, I'll let Shane slap me on the wrist if I'm wrong for suggesting that it's ideal for her thread. I completely agree with Donald's response to Dave with one exception and one clarification noted below.

I wonder if Odell's video about about using Silver Efex, which I have not seen, has more to do with conveying the complete capabilities of the application as opposed to the ideal integration of it into a workflow. When it comes to deciding how much the color version is to be revised before converting to black-and-white, I'll take Vincent Versace's exhaustive details about that over anything I've seen from Jason Odell, despite that his eBooks have been extremely helpful to me.

My one exception to Donald's post pertains to his thinking that getting everything right from the start including white balance is probably pedantic. It doesn't matter that I think it's extremely important to get that stuff right, but I do think it speaks volumes that an expert such as Vincent Versace advocates the importance of doing that.

I think Donald and I are on the same page but I want to clarify one point just to be sure. For me, everything having to do with using the color, hue and strength filters has to do with the conversion to monochrome. As such, it is immediately prior to that point in your workflow that you need to have the image prepared as much as possible for the conversion. Otherwise, the conversion may not be maximally effective.

One reason I haven't been motivated to learn how to use Silver Efex Pro despite that I licensed it is that my software that converts my RAW files also converts from color to black and white using any point in the color spectrum as a color filter and to any degree of sensitivity. I can do that globally to the entire image or selectively to parts of the image. Regardless of what software you use to convert to monochrome, I encourage taking advantage of that very powerful flexibility that Donald and I use rather than using presets.

[Donald]

... but I do think it speaks volumes that an expert such as Vincent Versace advocates the importance of doing that.

It's nice to know I'm in good company!

As such, it is immediately prior to that point in your workflow that you need to have the image prepared as much as possible for the conversion. Otherwise, the conversion may not be maximally effective.

I agree totally.

[ShaneS]

First of all let me say that anything on the subject of NIK workflow would be welcome in this thread as I hope it will be a resource for others. I am so new to the software that I welcome hearing about all things others have learned along the way.

I am at work right now and haven't had but a second to scroll through the responses when a much more thorough read is certainly in order when I get home...

One quick thought for now on Donald's comment

I'm sort of with you, Shane.

One question is why you go back to CS5 for burning and dodging. You can do this as precisely (if not more so) with things like brightness sliders on Color Efex and Silver Efex.

The control points in NIK take a bit of getting used to and I am still at the very early stages of using them. I am still trying to figure out the intricacies of working only on one section and using the sizing and a 'neutral' control point to limit the area of an adjustment. Conceptually, I understand it to be like a mask of sorts but the implementation is a bit different and will take some getting used to.

Keep your thoughts, challenges and solutions coming...and thanks for taking the time to respond.

[ShaneS]

I know a number of you have indicated a desire to open the NIK filters as smart objects and it can be done but not in Elements (only Lightroom and Photoshop CC or CS). See this video for the details: Using the Nik Collection by Google as Smart Filters in Photoshop

This is a life saver for me as I rarely get everything right the first time that I process an image and often like to fine tune it at a later point.

Thanks to everyone for confirming that NIK filters can take the place of traditional layered editing (for the most part) due to the powerful control point technology.

I'm off the play some more as I only have a few days left in my trial

[davidedric]

Indeed, my understanding was that it was proper procedure to get the colour image right before conversion to B & W. The important point is that 'getting it right' is not the same thing as getting it correct. It's getting it right for the B & W conversion that you want to make. So, some colour files that have been converted look very odd in colour.

Thanks, Donald, yes that was the point he was making - and the error I was making. I had imagined they were the same and so was trying to get the best looking colour image I could. Specifically, he suggests to start with a low contrast image, more saturated that would look right in colour, and if you are using Lightroom stay away from the structure slider.

[Brev00]

I really do not know what I am going to do with an image until I get it out of ACR. My effort is always to do the best I can there and then see what i need to do when the time comes. I also have the Topaz suite and find myself, more often than not, choosing to go that route. Other times, especially when I have a layered landscape with clouds, I know some tonal contrast in Color Efex will do just the trick. Some pro contrast will put some zing in the shot and I can always alter the colors with the correct color cast slider. I sometimes like the glamor glow and the darken/lighten for a subtle vignette effect. Neutral density works great with too bright skies and image borders works a treat for various border choices. Of course, I don't do all of this at once but I might layer a few. Most often, I adjust the sliders far lower than the default values. I always keep tonal contrast as the start-up filter in my workflow.

I then bring the file back into Elements where, again, I don't know what I am going to do until I get there. Often, that is it and I can do some Nik sharpening and be done. Other times, I might convert the file using Elements, Silver Efex or Topaz BW Effects. Even if I convert the shot, if I want to add borders I like to use Color Efex because I can layer the borders there in a snap. Elements also has a variety of fun, artistic filters that can help me to take an image right over the edge. So, workflow may be giving my procedure more of an orderly impression than it deserves.