Happy with the 600EX-RC

[rpcrowe]

I received my 600EX-RT flash and I am very happy with it (thanks for the awakening Colin). I have used it as a master with my 430EX and old 420EX flashes and it works fine.

The ETTL is spot on.

I am not unhappy with anything about the unit but, to be nitty-picky, I would rather have the up-down, on off switch than the 600EX rotating 3-position switch. It may be my lack of dexterity but, I found it easier to turn the unit on and off with the old type switch using my thumb while I gripped the camera.

Edited as per Colin's correction RT not RC

[Colin Southern]

I received my 600EX-RC flash and I am very happy with it (thanks for the awakening Colin). I have used it as a master with my 430EX and old 420EX flashes and it works fine.

The ETTL is spot on.

I am not unhappy with anything about the unit but, to be nitty-picky, I would rather have the up-down, on off switch than the 600EX rotating 3-position switch. It may be my lack of dexterity but, I found it easier to turn the unit on and off with the old type switch using my thumb while I gripped the camera.

Glad you like it Richard (knew you would!).

The switch is the same (ish) as the 580EX II - I guess they see that as the way to go these days. If you configure it correctly though, it'll go into standby mode quickly - so no need to keep switching it on/off whilst you're still using the camera -- only when you've finished shooting for that session.

PS: It's a 600EX-RT, not RC

[RustBeltRaw]

You're not alone, Richard. I'm about to sell off my two 580EX II flashes for a 600EX-RT and a LumoPro LP180. I already own one 600EX-RT, and the extra zoom, radio system, and no interference with PocketWizard communications are worth the upgrade. Tired of dealing with those damnable soft RF shields.

Broadly speaking, it seems difficult to find situations where more than two TTL remotes are genuinely useful (unless you're Syl Arena). So I'm dropping down to 2 TTL and 1 durable manual flash from 3 TTL flashes.

[Colin Southern]

Broadly speaking, it seems difficult to find situations where more than two TTL remotes are genuinely useful (unless you're Syl Arena). So I'm dropping down to 2 TTL and 1 durable manual flash from 3 TTL flashes.

Hell, I've got 5 and thinking of buying more!

[Bobobird]

Not that I do much flash stuff but have been very happy with the 600EX flash and the RT the 6 or so the 6 months or so that I have had them. Great combo. Works perfect for off-camera bug shooting and the occasional stills.

[Colin Southern]

Not that I do much flash stuff but have been very happy with the 600EX flash and the RT the 6 or so the 6 months or so that I have had them.

Not sure what you're meaning by "RT" here Bobo.

[RustBeltRaw]

Hell, I've got 5 and thinking of buying more!

Impressive. When are you using 5x TTL flashes simultaneously?

[rpcrowe]

By the way... Along the same line... I have replaced my Canon Off Camera Sync Cord with an off camera cord from Calumet. I actually like the Calumet cord better because it has a lever to tighten on the hotshoe rather than the screw. Like the 600EX-Rt vs. the old 550EX. I do like the lever fastener better than the old screw type!

Canon has reissued the off-camera cord with a non-screw fastener as the Off Camera-Cord III. My Canon cord was quite old but, despite the screw fastener, I'd still be using it if one of my rescue dogs had not climbed to the top of the table on which the cord was resting and chewed up the wire...

I purchased the Calumet model because it was on sale and therefore a lot cheaper than the equivalent Canon cord.

BTW: I have been quite impressed with the Calumet house brand equipment. I am using a Calumet house brand CPL filter which I believe was manufactured by Schneider in Germany...

[Colin Southern]

Impressive. When are you using 5x TTL flashes simultaneously?

I've got a couple of 4-Squares (30" portable softbox that takes up to 4 flashes at once) - they gobble them up pretty quick. On other occasions it's pretty easy to use 1 for key lighting, one for fill, one for hair, and a couple for background.

[Colin Southern]

By the way... Along the same line... I have replaced my Canon Off Camera Sync Cord with an off camera cord from Calumet. I actually like the Calumet cord better because it has a lever to tighten on the hotshoe rather than the screw. Like the 600EX-Rt vs. the old 550EX. I do like the lever fastener better than the old screw type!

I think the reason Canon revamped it was to add weather sealing. The metal parts were a welcome addition too.

[inkista]

By the way... Along the same line... I have replaced my Canon Off Camera Sync Cord with an off camera cord from Calumet. I actually like the Calumet cord better because it has a lever to tighten on the hotshoe rather than the screw. ...

Unsurprisingly I have the cheap Yongnuo version of this type of cable. You know what I hate about it? (And all the coiled TTL Canon cables I've ever seen?) The cable come out over the front of the camera. Not the side. Not the back. The front--where it hangs in front of your lens. I'm assuming this is for flash bracket reasons, but really, I'd love it if the cable came out over the back of the camera instead. It gets really weird when I'm using it on my Panasonic G3--the gear's so much smaller that the cable almost inevitably gets into the shot, unless I secure it out of the way somehow. The spring from the coiling makes it harder than just draping it out of the way, sometimes.

... Like the 600EX-Rt vs. the old 550EX. I do like the lever fastener better than the old screw type!

Just wanted to point out, you don't have to go to the 600EX-RT for the lever --it was added on the MkII versions of the 580EX and 430EX. But on those two models, you then have the disadvantage of the master/slave switch becoming menu/button driver, rather than an external switch (the hotshoe lock lever took up the room where it used to be. At least on the 600EX-RT, you've once again got a dedicated hardware control for master/slave modes.

To me, the big upgrades with the 600 are the radio triggering the 2012 features (D&E groups, Groups mode, ID codes, etc.); and the dot-matrix LCD display making the soft buttons usable.

I'd love to get a 600EX-RT, but as I have a 580EXII, and I'm happy with my el cheapo Yongnuo YN-622c triggers (which are 2.4GHz, and therefore don't need little RF jackets) I think it'll wait until I can find a used one for cheaper (gonna be a while). But I am keeping an eye out for the Yongnuo -RT clone gear that's apparently on the horizon. They're cloning the 600EX-RT and ST-E3-RT. Curious to see how far the compatibility goes and what the durability is for the early adopters. And whether they make Nikon versions...

Personally, though, I really wish Canon (or hell, even YN) were also making a) RT-add-ons for earlier non-RT e-TTL II EX units (430EX, 580EX, 430EX II, 580EX II, etc.), and b) cheap RT-compatible manual (but with, say, quench-pin power-control) triggers for manual lights/studio flashes. I think the main problem right now with the RT system is that the 600 is the ONLY flash in it. Mixing systems requires dropping the new 2012 features and going optical or foregoing the TTL goodies altogether (and possibly using two triggering systems).

The dream c) product (that will probably never happen) is a Sekonic meter unit, similar to the PocketWizard RT32 unit, so you could pop the lights from the meter. But I think Sekonic's making this a no-go by moving away from the $60 swap-in units and baking PW Tx units into the meters (sigh). Sekonic really doesn't get this Strobist explosion and how PW isn't the only game in town anymore. If they made a standard slot in their meters, and then published the interface specs so anybody could build a Tx unit to it, that would make a helluva lot more sense to me. But I'm just a hobbyist. What do I know?

p.s. Richard--"RC" is the name used by Olympus for their light-based wireless TLL system. Funny, huh? RC meaning anything but "radio-controlled".

[Colin Southern]

The dream c) product (that will probably never happen) is a Sekonic meter unit, similar to the PocketWizard RT32 unit, so you could pop the lights from the meter. But I think Sekonic's making this a no-go by moving away from the $60 swap-in units and baking PW Tx units into the meters (sigh). Sekonic really doesn't get this Strobist explosion and how PW isn't the only game in town anymore. If they made a standard slot in their meters, and then published the interface specs so anybody could build a Tx unit to it, that would make a helluva lot more sense to me. But I'm just a hobbyist. What do I know?

Probably the best work-around is to use a ST-E3-RT and "test fire" them (if you're using manual mode). Pretty clunky, but should work.

If Sekonic aren't careful they might just find someone else releases a compatible lightmeter.

[inkista]

Probably the best work-around is to use a ST-E3-RT and "test fire" them (if you're using manual mode). Pretty clunky, but should work.

Oh, yes, that's the workaround for any triggering system. The thing is, it's a PITA when you have to put the meter in one hand, and use the Tx unit in the other--particularly if the Tx is attached to your camera hotshoe at the time. At least the ST-E3-RT can be used in-hand.

The Yongnuo RF-603s are super-obnoxious this way (which is why we keep hearing a Mk II version will be coming out). The 603s have this neat "feature" where they auto-sense if they're supposed to be a Tx or Rx unit. Trouble is, it does this by using one of the TTL pin signals. If it's in-hand, it can't sense the TTL signal, so it never goes into Tx mode, and stubbornly stays in Rx mode. And you can't use it to test fire. So it has to be on the camera to test fire. [facehands]. If the camera's on the tripod, it's hard as a single person to simultaneously hold the meter where you need to and hit the test button the transmitter. Unless you're Plastic Man.

This same issue also means that the triggers don't work on Sony, Olympus, Panasonic, or Pentax hotshoes, even though they're ostensibly "manual-only" triggers, which theoretically should work. Using a Tx/Rx switch (like Cactus does) doesn't seem so dumb, now.

If Sekonic aren't careful they might just find someone else releases a compatible lightmeter.

It's funny to me that they had the right idea, just too early (i.e., when PocketWizard really was the only game in town), and then they abandon the idea just as it's becoming something more people want. OTOH, they can charge $100 more for a meter with a PW Tx in it; they probably don't make money if Yongnuo makes a $25 unit to go in one of their meters; as we all know that YN isn't exactly the kind of company that pays licenses... So I guess it makes sense. But you'd think that Canon & Nikon might be happy to make compatible triggers for Sekonic and pay them a licensing fee if they didn't want to open the design of the triggering interface.

Still. Canon logic is not our earth logic.

[Colin Southern]

Oh, yes, that's the workaround for any triggering system. The thing is, it's a PITA when you have to put the meter in one hand, and use the Tx unit in the other--particularly if the Tx is attached to your camera hotshoe at the time. At least the ST-E3-RT can be used in-hand.

The Yongnuo RF-603s are super-obnoxious this way (which is why we keep hearing a Mk II version will be coming out). The 603s have this neat "feature" where they auto-sense if they're supposed to be a Tx or Rx unit. Trouble is, it does this by using one of the TTL pin signals. If it's in-hand, it can't sense the TTL signal, so it never goes into Tx mode, and stubbornly stays in Rx mode. And you can't use it to test fire. So it has to be on the camera to test fire. [facehands]. If the camera's on the tripod, it's hard as a single person to simultaneously hold the meter where you need to and hit the test button the transmitter. Unless you're Plastic Man.

This same issue also means that the triggers don't work on Sony, Olympus, Panasonic, or Pentax hotshoes, even though they're ostensibly "manual-only" triggers, which theoretically should work. Using a Tx/Rx switch (like Cactus does) doesn't seem so dumb, now.


It's funny to me that they had the right idea, just too early (i.e., when PocketWizard really was the only game in town), and then they abandon the idea just as it's becoming something more people want. OTOH, they can charge $100 more for a meter with a PW Tx in it; they probably don't make money if Yongnuo makes a $25 unit to go in one of their meters; as we all know that YN isn't exactly the kind of company that pays licenses... So I guess it makes sense. But you'd think that Canon & Nikon might be happy to make compatible triggers for Sekonic and pay them a licensing fee if they didn't want to open the design of the triggering interface.

Still. Canon logic is not our earth logic.

To be honest though, I don't actually find it too big of a deal; in the studio it's studio heads (with Plus II's attached) and the Sekonic 758DR works a treat. Outside it's usually the 600EX-RT's, but using ETTL (with various group ECs) that don't normally benefit that much for a light meter anyway (one can usually get a good enough setup introducing one light at a time).

[inkista]

To be honest though, I don't actually find it too big of a deal; in the studio it's studio heads (with Plus II's attached) and the Sekonic 758DR works a treat. Outside it's usually the 600EX-RT's, but using ETTL (with various group ECs) that don't normally benefit that much for a light meter anyway (one can usually get a good enough setup introducing one light at a time).

True. I'm thinking more on the bargain basement end of things, where someone may be trying to put together a studio set up after having started out as a Strobist, using the speedlights and cheap radio triggers they already have, and they've just managed to pick up a used Sekonic meter with the Tx unit slot. I've seen someone actually build their own RT32-ish unit out of an RF-602 board. [potn thread] and just wondered why all the cheap radio trigger guys weren't building something like that.

[RustBeltRaw]

Initially, I used the Canon IR system with my 60D and 580EX II, which is a really good setup for wireless hand-holding and short-range stuff. But it won't sync at the second curtain in TTL mode, and you can't IR-trigger stroboscopic mode. Which is important for my fire performance work. PocketWizards will do the former, but still working on a solution for the latter.

I think range is the main area where PocketWizards are still king. The 600EX-RT and ST-E3 are advertised at 98ft of radio range. PocketWizards are advertised at 1,600ft (which is highly optimistic for real-world conditions). I interpret the different ranges simply as a greater chance of the flash triggering in non-ideal (AKA all) conditions, and I suspect Canon's range estimate is considerably more conservative.

Interestingly, the Canon IR system is extremely good at keeping up with burst shooting. I messed around with my 1D mkIII to see how fast each system can fire. On TTL, in my tests with my usual derby setup at typical ranges, PocketWizards start missing frames at about 8FpS. They claim 10FpS on TTL and 12FpS on manual (manual requires reducing the stock 120ms contact time with MultiMax and Plus-series radios). Canon TTL IR kept on ticking all the way to 10FpS, which was bloody impressive. Unfortunately, IR triggering is not practical for the kind of shooting I do, so (poor me) I have to limit my camera to 8FpS and use PocketWizard TTL.

I stand by my PocketWizard purchases, especially since I got three FlexTT5s for $140 apiece thanks to eBay. They. Are. Great. Even if they drive me nuts occasionally. And if I'd paid full price, I would be much less enthusiastic. Mainly, I don't like the 580EX II's PocketWizard interference problem and its required soft RF shields. Or the lack of optical slave mode on Canon's entire flash range. And now that Cathy mentions it, an add-on radio compatible with the Canon radio system and legacy flashes would be a very welcome product.

The weird thing is, the more I screw around with radio and IR TTL systems, the more Zen-like and beautiful optically-triggered, manual-only flashes appear. Considering that I already shoot mostly in manual mode and mostly with prime lenses, maybe I'm a closet Luddite. Regardless, there really isn't a perfect hot-shoe flash control system yet. TANSTAAFL!

Canon logic is not our earth logic.

QFT.

[rpcrowe]

I most often use my Canon Off Camera Sync Cord (Calumet version) when shooting with my Stroboframe Camera Flip Bracket. Bouncing the flash and adding the Flash Diffuser Pro gives pretty nice lighting with a single flash setup. I wrap the sync cord around the bracket to keep it out of the way.



The pop-up flash trigger of my 7D camera is chancy at best when I am using a Canon flash on the Stroboframe Bracket. It is O.K. indoors but, can have problems outside, depending on the brightness and angle of the sun and the camera to subject distance. Therefore I use the Off-Camera Sync Cord all the time.

The one thing that I am not crazy about with the Off-Camera Cord is that it places another piece of gear between the flash unit and the bracket. The flash rides higher off the bracket. This allows more torque from the weight of a larger flash along with any modifier added to that flash and I worry about the solidity of the connection.

I really liked the way my Sunpak 120J flash worked with a bracket. This flash had a screw attachment at its base and used a sync cord directly plugged into the body of the flash. This was a very solid arrangement. Of course, with my model of the 120J, I did not have TTL exposure control, OTOH, the thyristor exposure control did pretty well for fill flash outdoors. I might still be using that 120J if it had high speed sync capability. HSS is a capability that I sorely need for fill flash because I often like to shoot outdoor people shots using a very wide aperture which translates to a higher shutter speed. However, the size of the 120J reflector is thirty times the area of a typical hotshoe flash and the fill flash outdoors without a modifier is softer than the small concentrated flash tube of the hotshoe flash. The 120J also has bare bulb capability and since the reflector can be removed, it provides really nice light using a softbox...

It would be nice if Canon came out with RT triggers built into their cameras and flashes (but IMO, they are too busy modifying their DSLR cameras for video work and equipping them with mega-gazillion ISO capability).

An ISO 25 capability in my DSLR might allow me to shoot outdoors with a wide aperture at a slower shutter speed. Obviously, it might also facilitate slower shutter speeds using either a CPL or a lighter ND filter to smooth out moving water. However, This also would never sell cameras like ISO 360,000,000,000,000 would...

[Colin Southern]

Initially, I used the Canon IR system with my 60D and 580EX II

Canon don't use IR for flash control - it's all visible light

[rpcrowe]

Canon don't use IR for flash control - it's all visible light

My mistake...

Do you ever think that Canon will come out with less expensive RT slaves like they had with the 580EX II and the 430EX II?

[Colin Southern]

Do you ever think that Canon will come out with less expensive RT slaves like they had with the 580EX II and the 430EX II?

I'd almost bet money on it.

- Flashes need to be controlled wirelessly if they're brand name.

- The old visible light pulses technology was old and limiting, and well past it's use-by date

- They've already developed the new RT system, so easy to incorporate into a new flash.

Knowing Canon they'll do it, but never as fast as people would like them to.