Model shoot

[Rhoads238]

Hey all,

Today I was lucky enough to get to shoot some models for a project that one of my friends is working on. Until recently I have never tried this kind of photography so I am looking for some feedback. Up until today I have never used an off camera flash outdoors. One thing i found frustrating is that without radio transmitters slave flashes don't always fire as they should. Looks like I may be in the market for some pocket wizards soon. Keeping the other people involved on task was also another unexpected challenge. Either way I think I got some decent shots but could definitely improve.

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CC welcome,

Jason

[Andrew76]

Hey Jason! I think they look great! What sort of PP has been done though? They almost look tone mapped, or something.... They have a kind of ethereal feel to them - like they're composites or something.

Very striking/intriguing.

PS - I've never had any issues using slaves outside. What kind of trouble did you run into?

[Rhoads238]

Hey andrew,

Thanks! I got a bit frisky with cs6 since we were going for an edgy look with the photos. The look your talking about is a combination of using almost no ambient light and pushing the clarity bar in ACR. I also use adjustment brushes to selectively "paint" in areas.

The flashes weren't firing every time. I was using my su-800 which has never had problems before. I ended up switching to using the on camera flash as a master on low power which was marginally more reliable. Its possible that the angles I had the flashes at were outside of the useful range of the optical slaves. Thats my best guess anyway.

-Jason

[Andrew76]

Nice. I like it. I may have to give it a go sometime... When you say no ambient light, was it actually dark out, or were you just using a really fast shutter speed, and only catching the flash?

[Rhoads238]

Give it a whirl. They were taken midday with a fast shutter speed and with the flashes turned almost all the way up to full power.

[Andrew76]

Sweet! I think I will. Thanks for sharing with us!

[nimitzbenedicto]

Hi Jason,

Awesome shots.

Andrew gave some great pp comments, so I'll just go to the other aspects of your shots. Some friends advised me to shoot flash in manual mode. Sometimes flashes don't fire if in sync mode. Ever since manual mode, no prob.

#01. The best of this set. Maybe crop a little closer to subject.

#02. Crop his right side ( left from our view angle.).
Maybe a simpler background next time.

#03. Crop the top closer to her head. Perhaps clone out that lock to make that door on her left simpler/plain. Try light coming from her right side next time.

#04. Again, maybe crop the top part and crop closer to her back.

Hope this helps.

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Nice. I like it. I may have to give it a go sometime...

Hi Andrew, Yup. Just as the Greek God Nike said.

Just do it!

Awaiting your cool shots. .....

[Colin Southern]

One thing i found frustrating is that without radio transmitters slave flashes don't always fire as they should.

Surely not!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfTR3QtbDbU

[Shadowman]

Very nice, very dramatic.

[Rhoads238]

Thanks for the responses everyone!

Victor, I'll definately take a look at the cloning idea. The crops you mentioned may also work. Actually I always shoot with everything on manual, including flash. I do use auto focus though. I think the flashes were positioned outside of the effective range for an optical slave.

Colin, LOL.

John, Thank you.


Heres one more shot from yesterday. I was on the fence if it works or not. I do like the concept though.



This was by far the most challenging shot of the day.

[Colin Southern]

Colin, LOL.

No worries Jason - glad you got a laugh out of it.

TO be honest, optical triggering from both camps can definitely be a challenge -- especially in outdoor environments. Pocket wizards are a mixed bag; the earlier "dumb" triggers (Plus II, Plus III etc) were bomb proof - they'll even trigger between aircraft in flight!, but the newer TT1 / TT5 units have more "issues" (especially those on the FCC frequencies) (the European frequencies were better). By far and away the best by far is currently Canon's RT system (assuming smart triggering that passes ETTL info), but that probably doesn't help you as a Nikon shooter at this stage.

With regards to your images - only suggestion I can make (to a great job) is consider using more of a broad vignette; it gives the optical illusion of extremely well-targeted lighting that also draws the eye into the image. eg

[Rhoads238]

No worries Jason - glad you got a laugh out of it.

TO be honest, optical triggering from both camps can definitely be a challenge -- especially in outdoor environments. Pocket wizards are a mixed bag; the earlier "dumb" triggers (Plus II, Plus III etc) were bomb proof - they'll even trigger between aircraft in flight!, but the newer TT1 / TT5 units have more "issues" (especially those on the FCC frequencies) (the European frequencies were better). By far and away the best by far is currently Canon's RT system (assuming smart triggering that passes ETTL info), but that probably doesn't help you as a Nikon shooter at this stage.

With regards to your images - only suggestion I can make (to a great job) is consider using more of a broad vignette; it gives the optical illusion of extremely well-targeted lighting that also draws the eye into the image. eg

Thanks Colin. Maybe I'll look for used a used set of pwiz then. I actually saw a shot of a helicopter by David Hobby where he lit the interior using a strobe and pwiz combo from I believe a thousand feet away. As far as frequencies older equipment should be fine since I never really use TTL flash and prefer using manual anyway.

I like the effect in the examples you have provided. So you get the effect via lens corrections? or is there another method.

What lens were you using for these shots? The two of the models were talking to me about getting some head shots done. Ive never done it before but I'll try anything. It sounds like they have a lot of friends that are aspiring actors, dancers and models that all need head shots done. So that could be quite a bit of business for me if I am able to do it right. What kind of light modifier do you prefer to use? The first thing that comes to my mind would be a shoot through umbrella or a soft box.

[Colin Southern]

Thanks Colin. Maybe I'll look for used a used set of pwiz then. I actually saw a shot of a helicopter by David Hobby where he lit the interior using a strobe and pwiz combo from I believe a thousand feet away. As far as frequencies older equipment should be fine since I never really use TTL flash and prefer using manual anyway.

You're welcome.

Manual is one thing - being able to control the manual power remotely is another. Horses for courses; on location I like to be able to control everything from the camera, but in the studio I usually use the Plus IIs for triggering the studio heads, but either adjust the power on each of the lights manually, or use one of the SkyPort controllers.

I like the effect in the examples you have provided. So you get the effect via lens corrections? or is there another method.

There's quite a few methods - if you're using Photoshop then you can do it from ACR (it's even smart enough to take any cropping into account. You can also do it via GND gradients in ACR if you need to be more "ad hoc" and varied. You can use lens corrections as you mentioned. You can duplicate the layer - apply a vignette by any means then adjust the opacity and/or erase parts of the top layer. You can use the burn tool.

What lens were you using for these shots?

Off memory, EF70-200 F2.8L IS USM II for the first two and EF135 F2.0L USM for the 3rd.

The two of the models were talking to me about getting some head shots done. Ive never done it before but I'll try anything. It sounds like they have a lot of friends that are aspiring actors, dancers and models that all need head shots done. So that could be quite a bit of business for me if I am able to do it right.

For head and shoulders it's best to use longer focal lengths because the compression is more flattering and the working distance means you're not crowding their personal space. On a FF camera 135mm is a good starting point.

Peter Hurley is the gold standard in headshots (by a long way) - he has some great tutorials on Youtube (quite long) - it's well worth taking the time to view them. He also has an excellent tutorial on www.kelbytraining.com that's well worth going through.

What kind of light modifier do you prefer to use? The first thing that comes to my mind would be a shoot through umbrella or a soft box.

It depends on what you're doing. Normally for beauty work - in the studio - I'll be using a large octabox for the key light, smaller softbox for fill, and a beauty dish (gridded) for hairlight -- sometimes with an under-chin reflector, plus separate lights for background eg:



Other times I'll use a lightbox that gives a nice under-lighting, augmented with usual key, fill, hair, and background lights. eg:




Usually soft lighting is used for women, but you can make a feature out of hard lighting (placement is more critical though) eg



(just be careful not to make it too contrasty).

Or you can mix it up and have soft but contrasty light like this:



On location I'm usually firing 4 Canon 600EX-RT's into a 30" square Four-Square softbox (one or two). One of the advantages of having ETTL control is that you trigger them well above X-Sync speed (which you can't do manually) - so I can open up all the way to F2.8 for better DoF & subject Isolation and still strobe them (all the way up to 1/8000th) to get shots like this.



(1/1000th @ F2.8)

and this:



1/800th @ F2.8

Does that help?

For what you're doing, you'd probably get a lot out of Neil van Niekirk's books -- you might like to look them up on Amazon (Kindle versions available).

[Rhoads238]

Colin,

Thank you so much! If I wish I could give you more than one helpful vote.

You're welcome.

Manual is one thing - being able to control the manual power remotely is another. Horses for courses; on location I like to be able to control everything from the camera, but in the studio I usually use the Plus IIs for triggering the studio heads, but either adjust the power on each of the lights manually, or use one of the SkyPort controllers.

Interesting. I think I may have misunderstood manual for meaning not TTL. I always adjust the power through the camera or transmitter, rather than on the flash itself.

There's quite a few methods - if you're using Photoshop then you can do it from ACR (it's even smart enough to take any cropping into account. You can also do it via GND gradients in ACR if you need to be more "ad hoc" and varied. You can use lens corrections as you mentioned. You can duplicate the layer - apply a vignette by any means then adjust the opacity and/or erase parts of the top layer. You can use the burn tool.

I will have to play around with this. Previously I've only used the vignette adjustment via lens correction. GND gradients sounds like an interesting method. I also like the idea of separating the vignette and then changing the opacity, then selectively erasing areas.

Off memory, EF70-200 F2.8L IS USM II for the first two and EF135 F2.0L USM for the 3rd.

I had imagined that it would be a longer lens. Good to know. I am considering getting a 80-200 2.8D. I don't see the need for vr for this type of photography.

For head and shoulders it's best to use longer focal lengths because the compression is more flattering and the working distance means you're not crowding their personal space. On a FF camera 135mm is a good starting point.

Ill keep that in my mind if I decide to get the 80-200. Right now the longest lens I have is a 105

Peter Hurley is the gold standard in headshots (by a long way) - he has some great tutorials on Youtube (quite long) - it's well worth taking the time to view them. He also has an excellent tutorial on www.kelbytraining.com that's well worth going through.

Why pay for Kelby when CIC is free? I will take a look at the youtube series though.

It depends on what you're doing. Normally for beauty work - in the studio - I'll be using a large octabox for the key light, smaller softbox for fill, and a beauty dish (gridded) for hairlight -- sometimes with an under-chin reflector, plus separate lights for background eg:

Right now I just have a minimal lighting kit. I think I can make it work to an extent with what i have now. Maybe just a few new light modifiers.

On location I'm usually firing 4 Canon 600EX-RT's into a 30" square Four-Square softbox (one or two). One of the advantages of having ETTL control is that you trigger them well above X-Sync speed (which you can't do manually) - so I can open up all the way to F2.8 for better DoF & subject Isolation and still strobe them (all the way up to 1/8000th) to get shots like this.



(1/1000th @ F2.8)

and this:



1/800th @ F2.8

How do you get that many flashes in one soft box? Is there a bracket for that?

Does that help?

For what you're doing, you'd probably get a lot out of Neil van Niekirk's books -- you might like to look them up on Amazon (Kindle versions available).

Absolutely yes it helps. I'll be sure to check out the book too.

Thanks again,

Jason

[Andrew76]

How do you get that many flashes in one soft box? Is there a bracket for that?
Jason

Yep....

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Westcott-Trip...item2a347c6888

Or, make your own...

[Colin Southern]

Colin,

Thank you so much! If I wish I could give you more than one helpful vote.

Maybe I could just edit the database when Sean isn't looking!

(j/k Sean!)

Interesting. I think I may have misunderstood manual for meaning not TTL. I always adjust the power through the camera or transmitter, rather than on the flash itself.

I'll rephrase ... if you're using PoctetWizard Plus IIs or Plus IIIs then you'll be doing all your adjustments on the flash(s)

I will have to play around with this. Previously I've only used the vignette adjustment via lens correction. GND gradients sounds like an interesting method. I also like the idea of separating the vignette and then changing the opacity, then selectively erasing areas.

I use GNDs a lot; folks say to get the light as soft as possible you need to get it as close as possible (which is correct), but it also means the light falls off quite quickly. GNDs are great for addressing the imbalance that this can create.

I had imagined that it would be a longer lens. Good to know. I am considering getting a 80-200 2.8D. I don't see the need for vr for this type of photography.

IS/VR is damn near essential; you can't always shoot wide-open - so when you stop-down to the likes of F8 for group shots you can end up with shutterspeeds that are well below the recommended minimum for hand-holding (1/320th for a 200mm lens on a crop-factor camera).

Ill keep that in my mind if I decide to get the 80-200. Right now the longest lens I have is a 105

On a crop-factor camera that would be fine, but if you're serious about this kind of shooting then the 24-70 and 70-200 (on FF cameras) are the work horses of the industry.

Why pay for Kelby when CIC is free? I will take a look at the youtube series though.

Because it's damn fine training from damn fine photographers (even better than us CiC lot!)

Right now I just have a minimal lighting kit. I think I can make it work to an extent with what i have now. Maybe just a few new light modifiers.

You can to a lot with just 1 light and a reflector. I usually use 4 lights in the one softbox, but it's used as one light. Just gives me about the same power as kits like the Elinchrom Quadra lights, but with the ability to sync up to 1/8000th. In the studio it's a different story though - I run 5x Elinchrom 1200WS heads. Studio -v- Location is a lot like studio -v- live concerts; in the studio you can totally control the environment, but if can be a bit "sterile" whereas on location it's not quite as refined, but the environment gives it a totally different feel that more than compensates.

How do you get that many flashes in one soft box? Is there a bracket for that?

Yep - it's called a 4-Square for LightWare

http://lightwaredirect.com/foursquare/