SD card question

[hopeg]

Hi all! Well, this morning I started to explore my new camera that I got last night , a Nikon D5100. I wasn't able to purchase a new SD card last night, I just thought I could use my 1 GB card from my point and shoot for a couple days until I got a new card just for this camera, but...as I started reading the manual, it says that if this is the first time a card will be used in my camera, fr me to format it, problem is I have images on this card and don't want to format it. I do not have a computer at home to save these images to, so my question was, if I do not format the card and just use it just to somewhat at least explore my camera, will I cause damage? Should I just wait until I can get a new SD card?

[Mike Buckley]

Congratulations on your new camera.

My experience with my cameras is that if the camera will write to the card without formatting it, that's fine. If it won't write to it, a message will be displayed indicating that something is wrong, in which case you will need to either get a new SD card or download the images on your present card before formatting it.

You will probably be able to explore the settings in your camera even if no memory card is inserted in it.

[Polar01]

Hope I would say that to be safe as I am not sure, so better to be safe, the min you will need is a 4GB card an 8GB would be better, by hey you are just starting out. I would also suggest that you shoot the biggest jpeg files you can to start out, that is if you are not use to shooting and processing RAW files. One last one, is do not go and keep changing the settings, change one, see what happens, change back to original, see the change. Learn by changing only one thing at a time then back to original, and observe and learn, do not try to learn every thing at once. and oh yea have fun.

Cheers:

Allan

[Colin Southern]

Small point -- it'll probably want an SDHC (HC = "High Capacity") card, not necessarily SD. If so then the bigger the better -- they're cheap as chips these days. Even a 16 or 32GB wouldn't be overkill (I use a 128GB and 32GB cards in my camera) (CF though).

[hopeg]

Well.....I ended up just going today and I got myself a SanDisk Ultra SDHC 16 GB card and I even got lucky, I found myself a nice camera bag . So I guess I don't have to worry about my previous question lol

[Black Pearl]

Just shove a card in and let the camera create its own file. No need to format and there's pretty much no limit to the number of cameras you can bung it in.

That said you've a nice new one so not a problem but you never know in the future.

[GrahamS]

Just shove a card in and let the camera create its own file. No need to format and there's pretty much no limit to the number of cameras you can bung it in.

This is incorrect and should be disregarded. The memory card should be formatted in the camera in which it will be used! It should also preferably be formatted after each image download so that the camera writes contiguous files to the card, not fragmented files.

[Colin Southern]

This is incorrect and should be disregarded. The memory card should be formatted in the camera in which it will be used! It should also preferably be formatted after each image download so that the camera writes contiguous files to the card, not fragmented files.

If the camera is using an industry standard file system (as most do) then it'll advise the user if it can't read any existing file system, and offer to format it.

Fragmentation of files on solid state media is of zero consequence (again, assuming an industry standard file system).

Some used to have issues with non-contiguous file names - not sure if that's still the case.

[royphot]

Hi.

Enjoy your new camera. I would suggest that you get an extra card for it, just in case. Cards don't fail all that often, but when they do, it is always at the most inconvenient time.

Roy

[Mike Buckley]

The memory card should be formatted in the camera in which it will be used! It should also preferably be formatted after each image download so that the camera writes contiguous files to the card, not fragmented files.

I use the same card on Nikon D5100 and D7000 cameras. I discovered this capability accidentally when I inserted a card in one camera that had been formatted for the other camera that still had image files on it from the first camera. My Nikon D80 can not use cards formatted for the two other cameras, which are more recent models.

I never bother formatting every time I insert the card in the camera. Doing so is entirely unnecessary whether using my Nikon D7000, D5100 or D80 so long as the card is compatible.

[shreds]

Hi Hope,

Glad you did the right thing as you might have lost your previous images. It is fine to interchangeably use cards between cameras as each will create its own sub file on the card. I swop between my camera occasionally, although by having large capacity cards avoids the need to do so too often! (Especially when they are all 32Gb cards and the cameras in my case have the capacity for dual cards!)

Formatting will zero the card. Sometimes, if you don't format it, a 'memory' of thumbnails is retained in the cards memory which if not deleted will ultimately lead to a steadily reducing capacity. (I presume the SD/SDHC cards are similar in this function to CF cards). So whilst it is not necessary to reformat every time, it is good practice, as you know you are starting with a blank canvas. Though don't do this until you have successfully downloaded AND backed up all your shots.

Having two cards is also a great idea…you will not know quite how good, until you find you have just run out of capacity on a card and suddenly the shot of a lifetime breaks in front of you!! A bit like having a spare battery!!

[jcuknz]

This is incorrect and should be disregarded. The memory card should be formatted in the camera in which it will be used! It should also preferably be formatted after each image download so that the camera writes contiguous files to the card, not fragmented files.

Since effectively I never format cards and have had at least half a dozen different ones I treat such statements with a pinch of salt and wait for the error message which I have never received. Last time I formatted a card was back in 2005 after a problem.
I am sure Graham's advice is completely correct but I have not come to grief ignoring it. Theory v. practical.

I ran a test over several months with both CF and SDHC cards and found that while there was a small build up of junk on the CF there was none on the SDHC. But since my check was merely looking at 'properties' I'm willing to accept it may not be technically accurate.
Since I do not have the throughput of a busy professional my other conclusion that the build up was of no consequence that may also be wrong from a professional POV
I rarely fill up a card, so that last little bit of use which I didn't have on the CF card wasn't important.

[jcuknz]

With regard to Ian's point of safe download and back-up .... my system for the last few years has been to use Windows Explorer to do my downloading .... first making a copy of everything I take onto an 'archive' folder on my second hard drive then if that works AOK [ it has to date ]I move the files to an appropriate 'working folder' on my first hard drive ... that appears to empty the card ready for further use.
I use a card reader which appears as drive J [ I have both XP and W7 in my computer so I go a fair way down the alphabet at times ] and in Windows Explorer the commands 'copy to' and 'move to' appear once I have files selected on the camera card in the reader, but not before. That is in the 'Edit' section of WE.
How big a card you need does depend IMO on how much you shoot between downloading and I noticed one of my cameras only has a 256Mb card in it last time I used it for a few shots
I consider the practice of keeping files on the camera card bad and to be avoided, download and back-up at the earliest

[Black Pearl]

Just shove a card in and let the camera create its own file. No need to format and there's pretty much no limit to the number of cameras you can bung it in.

That said you've a nice new one so not a problem but you never know in the future.

This is incorrect and should be disregarded. The memory card should be formatted in the camera in which it will be used! It should also preferably be formatted after each image download so that the camera writes contiguous files to the card, not fragmented files.

It is not incorrect in the slightest.

I regularly swap my SD cards between a Pentax K30, a Nikon D300s, a Fuji X100 and a handful of compacts. I have never had an issue and when I shove them in the side of the iMac I simply select the folder I want to import into Lightroom.
When I managed a photographic store we had cards that had been in just about every camera on display - which was lots - they had dozens and dozens of separate folders on them and we never had an issue. If you put a SD or CF card into a camera it will automatically create its own set of folders and write the images to it regardless of what others are on there.
Smart Media cards (for those that remember them) and XD cards were different because the memory controller was in the device and not the card so you had to be careful to format them regularly or they were prone to crash. With SD and CF the memory controller is part of the card and is able to manage itself in a very stable manner. High end cards such as the Extreme Pro ones from Sandisk can den map out faulty areas and recover small faults, part of the reason they cost more and are worth investing in.

Yes there is an argument that says good file management is to format your card, take your pictures, download them then format the card again. It is good practice and if you like to manage your cards that way it is fine but is not something you have to do.

[GrahamS]

If the camera is using an industry standard file system (as most do) then it'll advise the user if it can't read any existing file system, and offer to format it.

Fragmentation of files on solid state media is of zero consequence (again, assuming an industry standard file system).

Some used to have issues with non-contiguous file names - not if that's still the case.

I go with experience over theory every time....

[Colin Southern]

I go with experience over theory every time....

Graham,

What you wrote used to be an issue many years ago, however, we need to be aware that what was good advice at one point in time may not necessarily hold true as things change in this rapidly changing world; and the shift from proprietary to industry standard file systems in cameras is probably the perfect example of this.

Have a read through this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_...ra_File_system

I get the same with Lithium Polymer batteries for RC helicopters - many years ago they were right little primadonnas, and you had all kinds of rules like "only charge them at 1C" - "Don't discharge them below 20% capacity remaining" - "Don't store them charged" - Don't store them discharged". I suspected that as battery chemistries evolved that some of these "mantras" may not apply anymore (even though many continue to repeat them with religious fervor!), so I did some tests ... and I was right. These days I charge them at 9C - leave them charged or discharged for days at a time - use 100% of their capacity ... and they're just fine.

[GrahamS]

Graham,

What you wrote used to be an issue many years ago, however, we need to be aware that what was good advice at one point in time may not necessarily hold true as things change in this rapidly changing world; and the shift from proprietary to industry standard file systems in cameras is probably the perfect example of this.




.

Colin, I have recently carried out some experiments to check on the write speed and buffer clearance speed using various cards in different cameras, one of the tests being with a card that had had previous random images "erased" instead of being formatted. The "erased" card was slower than the formatted card. It had only been used to a fraction of it's capacity. I can only guess that it would have been even slower had it been used to maximum capacity and random files had then been erased from it.

With the relatively small buffer size of the Nikon D7100 I need all the write speed I can get to reduce the camera's locked up "Busy" time while it clears the buffer to the card after shooting a burst, especially of BIF. During this "Busy" time, the world passes one by. I therefore use a fast card, formatted in camera. I also believe that formatting a card in camera before each use is just plain common sense. The only time I have ever had a card fail was during the format process - before any images could be lost.

[Colin Southern]

I also believe that formatting a card in camera before each use is just plain common sense. The only time I have ever had a card fail was during the format process - before any images could be lost.

Graham,

If you're doing a high-level format then it only resets the directory and file allocation tables, so won't pickup any bad spots that may be present in the majority of the space.

If you're going a low-level format it will check every location, but it'll also shorten the life of the card (cards can only tolerate a certain number of write cycles; normally the card's on-board controllers will dynamically allocate data to different physical areas to "spread the load", but a low-level format physically goes through ALL areas). A low-level format will also take considerably longer on a very large card.

I can't comment on the specifics of the D7100, but fragmentation is only an issue with mechanical drives where heads need to seek all over the place if clusters assigned to a file aren't contiguous. On the other hand, solid-state media doesn't have heads that need to seek and couldn't care if the next cluster = N+1 or N+29837.

[Black Pearl]

Graham,

I would be interested in knowing the cards you are using. High end cards have controllers that can map out errors, spread data in a way that is recoverable in instances of failure and maximise speed.

[GrahamS]

Graham,

I would be interested in knowing the cards you are using. High end cards have controllers that can map out errors, spread data in a way that is recoverable in instances of failure and maximise speed.

Sandisk Ultra III and Sandisk Ultra Pro 8G