EXIF Data

[RonH]

Colin kindly sent this to me after I raised the query with him ...

The system at our end doesn't change EXIF data - so if it's there when the images are uploaded then it remains there ...

... so the trick is to make sure it's there when you save the file. Unfortunately, that's going to depend on the package you're using - I use Adobe products which normally leave it untouched unless you choose "save for web".

A few of us have been 'skating around' on this subject. I use PSE8, do not delete this data and I can read it on my pc anytime ... does anyone know how we can ensure that EXIF data stays with the pic when we download so that it can be read at 'Cambridge'.

[Dave Humphries]

Hi Ron,

I think the answer is; do not use "Save for web" - (there are other reasons too)

As an experiment;
If you save a file from PSE8 once 'normally' (i.e. Save As (jpg)) and then again using Save for web, (using different filenames) - can you detect a difference between the two files in the EXIF data visible using the Windows' Properties dialog, on the Summary tab, with the "Advanced" option selected?

I can't try myself as at work at the moment.

Cheers,

[RonH]

Hei Dave,
Thanks for your reply. With normal jpg saving all the camera data is available to me directly from the file but, if I Save for Web a jpg then none of the camera settings can be read on that saved file. I have never used 'Save for Web' and always just save normally as jpg for downloading to the forum.
I'm no expert on this subject ... if EXIF data did accompany a pic to a forum, is it read by clicking on the pic to read Properties or do you have to save a copy first on pc and then look at Properties?

[Jim B.]

I'm having issues also.This is through the albums.I check EXIF data before I upload to my album and it's there.After upload,it's gone.If I post through Photobucket,EXIF data stays with the file.

[Dave Humphries]

Hei Dave,
Thanks for your reply. With normal jpg saving all the camera data is available to me directly from the file but, if I Save for Web a jpg then none of the camera settings can be read on that saved file. I have never used 'Save for Web' and always just save normally as jpg for downloading to the forum.

Thanks for the confirmation of my suspicions Ron,

Another nail in the coffin for 'Save for web'

I'm no expert on this subject ... if EXIF data did accompany a pic to a forum, is it read by clicking on the pic to read Properties or do you have to save a copy first on pc and then look at Properties?

Well, there are several ways;

Probably the easiest to do is just download the image to your HDD, then look with Windows in the file explorer. There are obvious downsides to this.

Next easiest is to do the right click "Copy Image Location" to clipboard (FF), or Properties > URL Address (IE), then visit here; http://regex.info/exif.cgi and paste the URL into the top box. That will return a plethora of information that can be overwhelming at first, and even when you know what to look for, due to the way different cameras and PP software store things, it can be difficult to find what you want It is THE most complete EXIF viewer I am aware of though, personally highly recommended.

Following that is to get an "EXIF Viewer plugin" for your browser (google it).
This will be easiest to use and usually presents just what you want from a new right click option.

You can, and I do, use the dragable button from Jeffrey's EXIF viewer above, see 1st panel in pink box top right of this link

I also use the linked "Alan Raskins EXIF Viewer for Firefox".

Cheers,

[Dave Humphries]

I'm having issues also.This is through the albums.I check EXIF data before I upload to my album and it's there.After upload,it's gone.If I post through Photobucket,EXIF data stays with the file.

Hi Jim,

I'll try some tests and see what happens.

Cheers,

[RonH]

Thanks for the confirmation of my suspicions Ron,

Well, there are several ways;

Cheers,

I'll have a looksee tomorrow ... thanks for your guidence on this

[ScoutR]

This is interesting, and confusing. I've been wondering about this myself, but I always figured the info was there for the ones who knew how to find it. I can find it at home, but once it's here it's a mystery to me.

I just did a little experiment myself on the covered bridge photo from the Bridge that Gap competition.

1. Per the instructions above, I checked the properties of the original file on my hard drive. It shows me the date taken and relevent camera settings. Some info does seem to be missing that I see on RAW files, but it looks like the important stuff is there.

2. I did a SaveAs on the same file from my album here and checked Properties the same way as on the original. The information is gone, and date created just shows up as todays date.

I do NOT use Save To Web, so I'm not sure why the info has gone missing and why it is there on the version from my hard drive, but not on the version that has been uploaded to the forum.

I'm sure it's probably some simple setting or something. I'll be watching the thread to see what you all figure out. If I can help in any way to solve the mystery, just let me know.

Wendy

[Dave Humphries]

I'm sure it's probably some simple setting or something. I'll be watching the thread to see what you all figure out. If I can help in any way to solve the mystery, just let me know.

Now I am confused too, I thought there was a preference in Elements to preserve the camera's EXIF data, but I cannot find it anywhere

I just know that mine is preserved - but see below:

OK: Now I have tried something I said I would in post #6.

I got a picture and Saved as at 1000px and also at 600px width.
I uploaded both to a test album here;


Here is the 600 wide (therefore not re-sized) one


and here is the 1000 px one which CiC has downsized to 600px


Only the first one has any EXIF data
It seems the re-sizing software is stripping the EXIF, which has sadly confirmed my suspicions.

And for completeness, the same 1000px file direct linked from PBase (with EXIF data intact)


So now we know we bit more and realise how important it is to post at 600px or less in an album.

Cheers,

[ScoutR]

I am going to do another experiment starting with a fresh file. I suppose it's possible that the properties function will find the EXIF data because it is on the hard drive and linked somehow to the saved JPG but not necessarily embedded with the photo. So it finds the linked data on the hard drive, but when the photo is uploaded the link is broken and the data is lost. ?????? Don't know, just thinking out loud.

If that is the case, then it's not happening here at the forum, but somewhere in the file saving and editing process. But Jim B has the same problem, and can see the data on Photobucket, so that kind of blows that theory. I'll check anyway. There are so many options, I doubt that any of us do everything the same way.

I go through so many file format changes I'm actually surprised there is still a picture there by the time I'm finished.

I start with NEF, export to Lightroom as DNG, then I do Lightroom adjustments and if I want to edit in Elements I select the file in Lightroom and then choose "Edit with Elements" The file then opens as a TIF in Elements. When I'm done in Elements I resize it and Save As jpg.

I'll look around and see what I can find. The EXIF info is there, I just dont' know why it's not staying with the file.

Dave; I'm pretty sure you used to look up EXIF data for me when I first started posting here, so it must have something to do with one of the settings in Elements. I'll snoop around and see what I can find. I think someone mentioned something about TIFs being a problem too. I didn't use TIF until I started using Elements. I'll experiment with that also. I have the option to use PSD, TIF just sounded easier to me for some reason.

Ron H: Are you editing TIF files in Elements or do you start out with a jpg? Just curious in case it is the TIF format that is causing the problem

Wendy

[ScoutR]

Dave: Will you check something for me. I just did an edit following the same process I usually use, but instead of editing as a TIF in Elements I edited as PSD. I'm not very good at this stuff, but from what I can see the TIF edit has lost the exif and the PSD has not. Both were converted to JPG using the same settings and both are 800 x 4xx

here is the first one that was edited as a TIF



here is another one that I just did an experiment with and edited in Elements as PSD instead of TIF



You should be able to see exif for the second one but not the first. Let me know what you see. I don't know if it will help anyone else, but if my findings are correct it will solve the mystery for my particular process.

Thanks
Wendy

Edit: Great pic by the way. What is the cat so intent on that he's completley ignoring the seagulls?

[Donald]

You should be able to see exif for the second one but not the first. Let me know what you see.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm seeing.

[ScoutR]

Yes, that's exactly what I'm seeing.

Thanks Donald: Seems I better get used to working with PSD instead of TIF.

When I check Dave's samples I see exactly what he has said also. I see exif for the 600 but not the 1000, so it looks like there are 2 things that are definitley affecting whether or not exif can be viewed.

Thanks for taking a look. It confirms what I am seeing. I don't usually look it up so I was not sure if I was going to get the same results as anyone else. I'll keep watching in the future to see if the results are consistent.

Have a good day
Wendy

[RonH]

Ron H: Are you editing TIF files in Elements or do you start out with a jpg? Just curious in case it is the TIF format that is causing the problem

Wendy

Hei Wendy and others
Having a day 'off' today (being Australia Day) and just having a quick sticky at threads. I have never (yet) used TIF ... I either shoot direct in jpg or in RAW followed by a conversion to jpg for printing/posting/emailing etc. And I now only use PSE8 to do everything I need to do (or know how to do!) whereas previously I was mucking about also with the Nikon stuff.

When I 'recover' from Aussie Day, I will follow this thread more closely to see if I can understand it ... hic!!

[Jim B.]

Hi Dave,

You confirmed my next thought.Posting file larger than 700 on longest side.

[Jim B.]

Hi Wendy,

I posted a photo in Mini comp.#69 that was saved as a Tiff in DPP, then opened in PSE8 to do final PP(sized to CiC's 700px on long side requirement).It's showing EXIF data.I'm pretty sure my problem is with posting images larger than the file size restriction.

[JK6065]

@Dave,

You're talking about reasons to not "save for web". I'm wondering what these might be as I use this function a lot to resize pictures I intend to upload to avoid crossing the upload limit.
I did find posterizing as one of them though that's what you get when saving to jpeg and especciallywhen resizeing (am i right?)

[Dave Humphries]

Dave: Will you check something for me. I just did an edit following the same process I usually use, but instead of editing as a TIF in Elements I edited as PSD. I'm not very good at this stuff, but from what I can see the TIF edit has lost the exif and the PSD has not. Both were converted to JPG using the same settings and both are 800 x 4xx

here is the first one that was edited as a TIF



here is another one that I just did an experiment with and edited in Elements as PSD instead of TIF



You should be able to see exif for the second one but not the first. Let me know what you see. I don't know if it will help anyone else, but if my findings are correct it will solve the mystery for my particular process.

Hi Wendy,

I agree with your expectation, I see EXIF on second only, so Tif is what "breaks it" in this instance. As does uploading >700 px to an album, because then it downsizes (to 600 - the old limit) as per Jim's findings.

What is the cat so intent on that he's completely ignoring the seagulls?

You might want to check out that cat again in the 1000px version for an answer
It also explains the bird poo on it!

Cheers,

[Dave Humphries]

You're talking about reasons to not "save for web". I'm wondering what these might be as I use this function a lot to resize pictures I intend to upload to avoid crossing the upload limit.
I did find posterizing as one of them though that's what you get when saving to jpeg and especciallywhen resizeing (am i right?)

Sounds like that's a third reason!
So now we have :-

1) If you downsize in "Save for web" dialog you are obviously not following best practice of output sharpening after the re-size, so images posted can look soft

2) It kills the EXIF data of the image

3) Your posterisation issue; that might well arise if you are subsequently opening the 'Saved for web' jpg in PSE (or ANY program) and start doing further processing on it

Cheers,

[RonH]

In a more sober moment this evening I have been downloading some jpg's of correct sizes and no EXIF data in respect of camera settings even though its on my file locally. I have checked PSE8 settings and I should be 'right to go'.
Grrrr ... what can I be doing wrong
Wendy ... you also use PSE8. Any ideas?
(I opened a pandora's box here!)

What with recovering from Aussie Day and this new Cambridge software update, I think I have resolved my EXIF problems. Did a couple of test downloads and hey presto, all was revealed! So please disregard this reply ... at least for the time being