night photography with street lighting too bright

[moxiemazzy]

i'm a self taught photographer and really enjoy my night photography and having trouble with when I photograph street lighting the lights come out too bright like big stars. I have played with F# and ISO and played with partial metering and evaluative metering. is there something very specific I need to use in my settings that will allow those lights to come out not as bright like a big star? I shoot mostly in AV mode...the attached shot is F20, ISO 100, 20 sec exposure. if I lower the F# to 18 and lower and up the ISO it only makes it worse.

[NorthernFocus]

Posting an example photo and the settings you used would help folks provide some feedback. In general, if you are shooting in any auto exposure mode at night, what you describe will happen with points of light. The camera's meter is seeing a scene that is dark overall and is compensating for the darkness. Therefore the lights get blown out.

Post an example as recommended if you want more feedback.

[Black Pearl]

Don't stop down so much and they won't star as much.

[moxiemazzy]

attached image F20, ISO 100, 20 sec exposure and partial metering mode. all in AV mode.

[dubaiphil]

Can't see the attached image, but don't stop down so much. Also to minimise blown highlights try bracketing and blending using Exposure Fusion

[Geoff F]

Usually the only way I get acceptable results is through editing to vary the brightness levels.

One of my more successful options is to shoot Raw then make two or more conversions with different exposure settings and combine them with layers and masks.

This allows for shooting to suit the brightest lights and recovering detail in the darker areas.

Or, if it is a static scene, shoot with bracketed exposures and do a 'gentle' HDR merge.

[moxiemazzy]

thank you...will try bracketing first and also look into merging images....some of my images I don't mind the star as it creates magical look just don't want it in all of them. any advice is appreciated as I don't have much experience with these types of obstacles (-:

[William W]

It appears that there are several issues.
Firstly I cannot see your image.
Please tell me what camera and lens(es) you are using – it occurs to me that you have a Cano DSLR, but confirming the specifics will be helpful

*

. . . when I photograph street lighting the lights come out too bright like big stars. I have played with F# and ISO and played with partial metering and evaluative metering. is there something very specific I need to use in my settings that will allow those lights to come out not as bright like a big star? I shoot mostly in AV mode...

There could be two issues here. Firstly the street lights might be “too bright” because the general scene is “too dark” in which case it is probable that your camera’s meter is being confused by the very bright lights in the scene. There are several remedies for this, the easiest I have found for a novice when shooting a STATIC SCENE is to make an exposure bracket: that means you take the first image as per the Camera’s indicated exposure and then shot maybe four more each at plus and minus 1 and 2 stops under and over the suggested exposure. You can use EXPOSURE COMPENSATION if you want to use the camera in an AUTOMATIC MODE (such as Av Mode) -OR – you can use MANUAL MODE and just change the shutter speed or aperture or ISO or a combination to make the bracket of five shots. Following this procedure at first should better allow you to learn the nuances of the METERING MODES of your camera. The camera’s Light Meter controls the EXPOSURE when you are using any of the automatic camera modes (such a “Aperture Priority Mode”)

*

the attached shot is F20, ISO 100, 20 sec exposure. if I lower the F# to 18 and lower and up the ISO it only makes it worse.

Lowering the F/number to 18 and at the same time INCREASING the ISO will INCREASE the EXPOSURE of the scene. Obviously then the lights will appear brighter.
If you want to DECREASE the exposure of scene (and the lights), then (as the lens is already stopped down to a small aperture and the ISO is very low) you should INCREASE the shutter speed: an increase of one stop would be setting the shutter speed to 10 seconds; two stops would be setting the shutter speed to 5 seconds. Note that this will DECREASE the exposure of the street lights, but it will also make the WHOLE SCENE in your image darker.

*

The “Star Effect” on the street lights is because of the SMALL APERTURE that you are using. Using a larger aperture (smaller F/number) will reduce that effect.
I think that one of the main concerns that you are having is capturing to the very large DYNAMIC RANGE of a night street scene. The Street Lights are very bright and the general street scene is relatively dark. You need to think through what is in actually the shot. For example here the photographer moved in quite close such that the very bright lights (top LH corner) were minimal in the shot:

“Christmas Eve”

And if bright lights have to appear in the shot then you need to think through how they will be effective and sometimes the starbust can look quite nice:

“Laying Pipes”

Or simply just make sure that no street lights appear in the shot, or the lights which do appear in shot are far away and very much out of focus because of a very shallow DEPTH OF FIELD created because of using a very large aperture, which is usually quite easy for street portraiture:

“Tourists Capture Nightscape”


WW

[rpcrowe]

Moxiemazzy...

Using small apertures (f/16 or so and smaller will produce star patterns in bright point source lights). Shooting around f/8 or f/5.6 or even with larger apertures will reduce/prevent the star-shaped patterns.

I shot this image at f/14 because I wanted the star shaped lights (ISO 160 @ 30 seconds)......



This image, shot at f/5.6, has somewhat less of a star effect (ISO 320 1.3 seconds)



Additionally: note the difference in the surface of the water between 30 and 1.3 second exposures.

Try this for night shots: Both of the above images were exposed this way...

1. Use aperture priority. Depth of field is not usually a problem when shooting night shots. I will often shoot at f/5.6 and sometimes even shoot wide open, but my lenses are top-line and will produce very good to excellent I.Q. when shot wide open...

2. Select Auto Exposure Bracketing...

3. Select -1 stop Exposure Compensation...

This will result in the following exposures for the next three shots: one at the meter reading, one 1-stop below and one 2-stops below the meter reading. The bane of many night shots is often over; not under exposure.

One of the three shots will almost always be right in the ball park exposure wise. Additionally, you can sometimes combine the three exposures into an HDR composite. Using aperture priority exposure mode will bracket the exposure times, not the f/stop, thus keeping the images at the same focus points.

I will often select mirror lock-up and use a remote shutter release if my exposure times are fairly long. If I do not have a remote release, I will trip the shutter using the self timer.

BTW: I shoot with the lowest ISO that will give me a decent set of shutter speeds. I seldom shoot with higher than ISO 400. The above images were shot at ISO 320 and ISO 160.

I always shoot in RAW and with auto color balance. I adjust the color balance of the image to where it looks good to me. However, if I were shooting for a set of images, I would ensure that I adjusted the color balance the same for each image. If you don't shoot in RAW, you are doing yourself a great disservice.

Finally, if you are using a Canon DSLR camera, the AEB will cancel out when you shut off the camera. I go into the menu and choose not to cancel the AEB when I shut off the camera. When I select an option, I want to be the one to deselect that option; not have the camera do it.

[Shadowman]

It appears that there are several issues.
Firstly I cannot see your image.
Please tell me what camera and lens(es) you are using – it occurs to me that you have a Cano DSLR, but confirming the specifics will be helpful

*


There could be two issues here. Firstly the street lights might be “too bright” because the general scene is “too dark” in which case it is probable that your camera’s meter is being confused by the very bright lights in the scene. There are several remedies for this, the easiest I have found for a novice when shooting a STATIC SCENE is to make an exposure bracket: that means you take the first image as per the Camera’s indicated exposure and then shot maybe four more each at plus and minus 1 and 2 stops under and over the suggested exposure. You can use EXPOSURE COMPENSATION if you want to use the camera in an AUTOMATIC MODE (such as Av Mode) -OR – you can use MANUAL MODE and just change the shutter speed or aperture or ISO or a combination to make the bracket of five shots. Following this procedure at first should better allow you to learn the nuances of the METERING MODES of your camera. The camera’s Light Meter controls the EXPOSURE when you are using any of the automatic camera modes (such a “Aperture Priority Mode”)

*



Lowering the F/number to 18 and at the same time INCREASING the ISO will INCREASE the EXPOSURE of the scene. Obviously then the lights will appear brighter.
If you want to DECREASE the exposure of scene (and the lights), then (as the lens is already stopped down to a small aperture and the ISO is very low) you should INCREASE the shutter speed: an increase of one stop would be setting the shutter speed to 10 seconds; two stops would be setting the shutter speed to 5 seconds. Note that this will DECREASE the exposure of the street lights, but it will also make the WHOLE SCENE in your image darker.

*

The “Star Effect” on the street lights is because of the SMALL APERTURE that you are using. Using a larger aperture (smaller F/number) will reduce that effect.
I think that one of the main concerns that you are having is capturing to the very large DYNAMIC RANGE of a night street scene. The Street Lights are very bright and the general street scene is relatively dark. You need to think through what is in actually the shot. For example here the photographer moved in quite close such that the very bright lights (top LH corner) were minimal in the shot:

“Christmas Eve”

And if bright lights have to appear in the shot then you need to think through how they will be effective and sometimes the starbust can look quite nice:

“Laying Pipes”

Or simply just make sure that no street lights appear in the shot, or the lights which do appear in shot are far away and very much out of focus because of a very shallow DEPTH OF FIELD created because of using a very large aperture, which is usually quite easy for street portraiture:

“Tourists Capture Nightscape”


WW

William,

The "Tourist" photo is nicely lit. Is the major light source from a lamppost?

[moxiemazzy]

thank you everyone for the feedback as it was very helpful...for some reason I thought I had to increase my f# above 16 to lessen the star effect and it sounds like opposite of what I thought and I was not using exposure bracketing as well. I have a canon mark III 5D along with a 35mm wide angle prime "L" lense F 1.4...those combined together let a lot more light in and are great for night shots...just having trouble with the star effect as sometimes I want it in there and sometimes not. again, thank you very much!

[William W]

The "Tourist" photo is nicely lit. Is the major light source from a lamppost?

Thank you.
Yes it was a Street Lamp, just above and behind them, used as the Key Light.

*

Here's another from the same evening and the same type of Street Light as the Key light.

I actually don't mind the raccoon eyes, all that much as her expression and her (implied) hand makes the shot worthwhile for me:

"The Lamppost Will Not Divide Us"

*

And another in made in Low Key using the same single Street Light as the Key Light:


"Midnight Acrobat"


WW

[jcuknz]

Quite awhile ago I remember a photographic exhibition around the time that Kodak introduced colour printing to NZ where there was quite a few images which showed detail of the area along with the lights. Apparently the photographer took one photo at dusk and another when all the lights were on and merged the results. MY few experiences of multiple exposure have not been satisfactory to me due to the spread of light from light sources in the exposures for the dark areas

[William W]

. . .I have a canon mark III 5D along with a 35mm wide angle prime "L" lense F 1.4...those combined together let a lot more light in and are great for night shots...just having trouble with the star effect as sometimes I want it in there and sometimes not. . . .

That's a very nice rig for night time shooting.

At F/2.2~F/4 and thereabouts, you will have very little or no "starburst" effect.

Keep shooting, and learning, the 35/1.4 on any 5D is a wonderfully useful lens for any available light shooting, daytime and night time, indoors and outdoors.

WW

[Shadowman]

Thank you.
Yes it was a Street Lamp, just above and behind them, used as the Key Light.

*

Here's another from the same evening and the same type of Street Light as the Key light.

I actually don't mind the raccoon eyes, all that much as her expression and her (implied) hand makes the shot worthwhile for me:

"The Lamppost Will Not Divide Us"

*

And another in made in Low Key using the same single Street Light as the Key Light:


"Midnight Acrobat"


WW

Very nice. I've tried using lamppost light and it does help. I usually try to position myself directly underneath, you seem to have a good side lighting going on in the "Tourist shot". Looks like the couple is directly beneath in "The Lamppost will not divide us".

[William W]

I've tried using lamppost light and it does help. I usually try to position myself directly underneath, you seem to have a good side lighting going on in the "Tourist shot". Looks like the couple is directly beneath in "The Lamppost will not divide us".

Thanks again.

In the "tourist shot" they are looking across a very small bay and there is a lot of light coming off the water from the moon and also from lights on the other side of the bay - all of which is very soft light. I really like that shot as there is just enough soft light for their faces an the strong key light from behind them makes for the juxtaposed shadows on the pier.

I think that was made with my 85/1.8 - that would have been be on one of my 5D's. It was a slow shutter speed, if you look at the large view, there's a trace of Subject Movement in her head, maybe even a bit of Camera Movement: I would have been maxed out at the highest ISO possible to even consider sacrificing the shutter speed.

*

Yes the couple are standing under the lamp post.

The story is here: http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=10442934

And you'll notice I still haven't taken out "the slice of lime" in front of the man's nose that Jeff mentioned to me - funny what we don't see when we are "too close" to an image when we are doing the post production of it.

I thought it best to keep the "slice of lime" in the shot - it adds to the story and also to show the value of listening to people's opinions.

*

The Acrobat was shot with the 135/2 also.


***


BTW - The point of my posting the first sample of Portraiture in the this thread, was, that I was not sure what type of 'night scenes' the OP was taking and I was giving an example that the 'street lamps' need not to be in the shot and can be used effectively to enhance the shot.


WW

[shreds]

I have always enjoyed night photography for the simple reason, that it put you in the driving seat, not the camera and you have to think about what you are doing.

Usually the good thing is that with lengthy exposures you have a tad more latitude in the amount of time the shutter can be open for, but my golden rule ever since film days is to turn off all automatic functions.

Get onto manual so you are in control of both the aperture and speed of capture. Try and keep the ISO as low as possible unless aiming for an effect, and finally focus manually.

For those who have never shot this way before, you will learn a lot, and as has been said, take a variety of shots, bracketing to allow you to choose the best. (Its a hell of a lot cheaper than in film days!!).

I usually set out with a lens that can open wide (even if I don't use the full capacity, these are usually better quality lenses), but set it initially at around f8 which is usually the sweet spot for most lenses, set ISO to 100/200, and adjust the shutter speed dependent upon the subject and whether I want any blur in the subject.

Don't generally look into bright light sources, and have a very solid tripod.

Nowadays I don't use a release, I tend to use the time delay function, which means there is no need to touch the camera during exposure…indeed locking the mirror up in a lot of cases, can assist too.

Finally, I tend to carry a digital gray card in case I need to colour balance, and if I am in colder climes, a lens tissue or six, a pair of gloves and warm boots. Once the sun is down it can get chilly.