Need a little advice for an unusual situation

[JBW]

Hi, because of my health I rarely leave our yard. This means that I have a never ending supply of bugs and insects plus flowers galore to photograph. In short lots of macro and still lives but not much need for a zoom for long shots. I currently use a FujiFilm Finepix S4200 which gives some very nice results and is a great learning camera. With 14 mega pixels it can capture a lot of detail.

I would like to upgrade to a camera that would be a significant upgrade in the macro department. I am imagining a bridge camera with say... 20 mega pixels? I am on a pension so buying specific lenses for a DSLR is probably never going to happen.
Suggestions?
Brian.

[Nickding]

Not very famaliar in macrophotogrpahy and brdige camera. Hope you can find help from other members. You condition is really special.

[JBW]

Not very famaliar in macrophotogrpahy and brdige camera. Hope you can find help from other members. You condition is really special.

I am sure the wisdom is out there.

[Stagecoach]

Hi, because of my health I rarely leave our yard. This means that I have a never ending supply of bugs and insects plus flowers galore to photograph. In short lots of macro and still lives but not much need for a zoom for long shots. I currently use a FujiFilm Finepix S4200 which gives some very nice results and is a great learning camera. With 14 mega pixels it can capture a lot of detail.

I would like to upgrade to a camera that would be a significant upgrade in the macro department. I am imagining a bridge camera with say... 20 mega pixels? I am on a pension so buying specific lenses for a DSLR is probably never going to happen.
Suggestions?
Brian.

Hi Brian,

I would suggest your first priorities are as follow;

a) From what you say you are very much restricted to your yard so your subjects are going to be found there. As with all bugs they come in different sizes and types so perhaps you need to think of what type of images you wish to capture of what's available to you.

b) Once you have thought about a) this will determine what sort of magnification ratios you will need and from this the search could start to see if there's a rig that will do this within your budget. Putting this extremely simply, if you have allusions of getting tack sharp full frame images of a bees eyes this will not be possible with every option available.

You certainly have a great selection of critters to choose from. Just for info the camera I use is a 14MPs and even the entry level ones are coming in at more than that now.

Grahame

[JBW]

Hi Brian,

I would suggest your first priorities are as follow;

a) From what you say you are very much restricted to your yard so your subjects are going to be found there. As with all bugs they come in different sizes and types so perhaps you need to think of what type of images you wish to capture of what's available to you.

b) Once you have thought about a) this will determine what sort of magnification ratios you will need and from this the search could start to see if there's a rig that will do this within your budget. Putting this extremely simply, if you have allusions of getting tack sharp full frame images of a bees eyes this will not be possible with every option available.

You certainly have a great selection of critters to choose from. Just for info the camera I use is a 14MPs and even the entry level ones are coming in at more than that now.

Grahame

Wouldn't we all like razor sharp bugs eyes.... big sigh. My Finepix with 14 mgp does a fine job on weevils, moths, ants, and most things down to about 3 mm. This is about as good as I have gotten and i believe that there is room for some improvement but iI could be near the cameras limits:


Perhaps i am wrong but I equate more pixels with greater clarity if everything else remains the same?

[Stagecoach]

Hi Brian,

Yes this spiders eyes are nice and sharp but he's pretty small within a small image.

If we take this subject and image posted what expectations do you have?

a) Would you like to photograph this spider so that he half fills the frame (as we see it because we do not know if its been cropped)?

b) Would you like to be able to post the image here at a larger size say 1000 px wide with good image quality?

More pixels will allow you to crop more as an alternative to greater magnification at the camera.

Grahame

[JBW]

Hi Brian,

Yes this spiders eyes are nice and sharp but he's pretty small within a small image.

If we take this subject and image posted what expectations do you have?

a) Would you like to photograph this spider so that he half fills the frame (as we see it because we do not know if its been cropped)?

b) Would you like to be able to post the image here at a larger size say 1000 px wide with good image quality?

More pixels will allow you to crop more as an alternative to greater magnification at the camera.

Grahame

Hi Grahame, it was a serious crop and yes I would like to be able to do less cropping and more composing in the camera. And yes I would like to be able to have this quality at 1000 or even 1200. So it sounds like more pixels is perhaps the least expensive way to go to get the improved quality?
B.

[Stagecoach]

Hi Grahame, it was a serious crop and yes I would like to be able to do less cropping and more composing in the camera. And yes I would like to be able to have this quality at 1000 or even 1200. So it sounds like more pixels is perhaps the least expensive way to go to get the improved quality?
B.

Hi Brian,

Increasing the pixels I do not believe will really give you a significant advantage unless you are talking a huge increase and that is not going to be available with a bridge type camera. I will let others advise on this route who are far more knowledgeable than me, hopefully they can help.

Anyway, you seem to have an idea of the image sizes you want to aim for which is a good starting point. I never looked at camera gear when I was in the Philippines, are there any outlets for used gear?

Grahame

[JBW]

Hi Brian,

Increasing the pixels I do not believe will really give you a significant advantage unless you are talking a huge increase and that is not going to be available with a bridge type camera. I will let others advise on this route who are far more knowledgeable than me, hopefully they can help.

Anyway, you seem to have an idea of the image sizes you want to aim for which is a good starting point. I never looked at camera gear when I was in the Philippines, are there any outlets for used gear?

Grahame

Not where we live. There are web based stores but it is just a local version of Amazon. I am wondering if it would make as much sense to start a step back and develop the garden so that there will be multiple habitats all with their own flowers, bugs, and seating arrangements so that everything can be shot sitting down with a solid base for the camera? Maybe even a set up for telephoto?

[dabhand]

Brian - I've no idea about the diversity of bugs in your area but based on my gardening experience I would suggest you should increase your opportunities significantly by further developing it with specific plants (including vegetables) to attract a specific range of bugs in mind - and even very shallow pools will add another dimension to those that will turn up.

The discussion around pixels and image quality is one of those things which causes no end of debate and dissent - but it's not a straightforward relationship as there are lots of other factors not least of which is sensor size.

Unfortunately I have no real insight into the gear required for shooting bugs but you may be able to get good advice on from those on here who do by giving a ball park budget in order to avoid suggestions which would not be realistic for yourself; and as always gear that would deliver great images 3 years ago will still do so - but at a much reduced cost.

[JBW]

Brian - I've no idea about the diversity of bugs in your area but based on my gardening experience I would suggest you should increase your opportunities significantly by further developing it with specific plants (including vegetables) to attract a specific range of bugs in mind - and even very shallow pools will add another dimension to those that will turn up.

The discussion around pixels and image quality is one of those things which causes no end of debate and dissent - but it's not a straightforward relationship as there are lots of other factors not least of which is sensor size.

Unfortunately I have no real insight into the gear required for shooting bugs but you may be able to get good advice on from those on here who do by giving a ball park budget in order to avoid suggestions which would not be realistic for yourself; and as always gear that would deliver great images 3 years ago will still do so - but at a much reduced cost.

you are right about not needing state of the art. I was outside today thinking about what to plant and where for as many habitats as possible. We have a moss garden, a bamboo grove, working on the pond, half a dozen different fruit trees, all sorts of butterfly magnets and even roses. Now it is sim0ly a question of refining and arranging fr it to be shot from a sitting position.

[Shadowman]

Hi, because of my health I rarely leave our yard. This means that I have a never ending supply of bugs and insects plus flowers galore to photograph. In short lots of macro and still lives but not much need for a zoom for long shots. I currently use a FujiFilm Finepix S4200 which gives some very nice results and is a great learning camera. With 14 mega pixels it can capture a lot of detail.

I would like to upgrade to a camera that would be a significant upgrade in the macro department. I am imagining a bridge camera with say... 20 mega pixels? I am on a pension so buying specific lenses for a DSLR is probably never going to happen.
Suggestions?
Brian.

Brian,

I think the real issue is how you are going to approach the subject (mainly insects) without frightening them away. I have a Nikon P90 and in macro mode it allows me to auto focus as close to the subject as the extended zoom will allow. Available light is also going to be an issue as I would be completely blocking the subject.

[rtbaum]

I may be way off base here, but I feel that if you pick up an older body and a used macro lens, you should be able to get the close ups that you crave. I am of the opinion that, in the case of macrophotography, the pixel count is not as critical as in other types of photography. I use a Tamron 90mm on a Nikon D90 and I never feel the need to crop, both are readily available at my local brick and mortar (natcam.com). I quick review shows both can picked up for about $700(US).

[Saorsa]

The S4200 is a superzoom with a 500+ mm equivalent lens. That should give you plenty of reach. The specs claim a 2cm working distance in the macro range. I don't own the camera so don't know what it's capabilities are but those seem adequate for most bugs except the smallest.

If it allows manual focus mode, you might try setting it to it's closest focus and moving the camera back and forth to achieve focus. I notice you said shooting from a seated position. I find that a light monopod supports the weight of the camera nicely for this purpose and limits vertical movement. Roll and yaw can still be a problem though and if your hands are unsteady, perhaps you can work with some paracord to create limiters in other directions.

[DanK]

Brian,

Sorry to hear that your mobility is limited. That's how I got started with macro. I was fortunate: surgery fixed me well enough that I am mobile again. However, I was hooked, and I still do more macro than anything else.

I agree with Randy. I don't think 14 MP will hold you back. Magnification will. I don't know what your budget is, but I think there really isn't a good alternative to an SLR with a macro lens. The good news, however, is that it doesn't matter all that much what SLR you use. Macro doesn't require a lot of fancy features, and a lot of very good macro photography is done with Canon's entry level Rebels.

I don't know what your budget is, but if you were here in the states, I would recommend looking at used gear from a reputable vendor like KEH. I just checked, and you can get a Rebel T3i (18 MP) and a canon 100mm macro lens (not the L model), both in excellent condition, for about $700 for the pair. They ship internationally, but I have no idea what the rates would be. You could e-mail them to find out (www.keh.com).

A camera of this sort would offer you a number of advantages. It would give you 1:1 magnification, which is enough for a lot of macro work. Once you are really comfortable at the 1:1 magnification it offers, you may well want more. It is cheap to get higher magnification by adding extension tubes.

Recognizing that you are on a budget and may not be able to get all this, here what my long-term macro wish list would be, for a no-frills but flexible setup. I'll put them in what I think is priority order, if bugs are the focus (no pun intended):

1. an SLR body and one dedicated macro lens, probably 100mm. Longer gives you more reach, but longer lenses are more expensive and much heavier, and they are not useful for table-top work.
2. A flash, with a home-made diffuser. This is extremely helpful for bugs. Mine looks sort of like this. My flash is a Canon 430 EX II.
3. A monopod with a tilt head for chasing bugs. It's hard to hold the equipment steady enough without some support, particularly if you add a flash. Brian Valentine, one of the best macro photographers, just uses a stick. A cheap but adequate lightweight monopod with a lightweight tilt head can be had here for under $100 for the pair. (I have an extra, a never used Oben [B&H] aluminum monopod and a Benro head, that I would happily sell, but shipping to the Philippines might cost nearly as much as they are worth.)
4. A tripod, if you decide to do flower macros, especially indoors. (In a hot setting, bugs don't usually stay put long enough for me to get my tripod set up.)

Dan

[JBW]

Brian,

I think the real issue is how you are going to approach the subject (mainly insects) without frightening them away. I have a Nikon P90 and in macro mode it allows me to auto focus as close to the subject as the extended zoom will allow. Available light is also going to be an issue as I would be completely blocking the subject.

I approach them slowly and carefully. When I do it right I can approach to within 2 or 3 cm of the subject. Shadow from the camera can be a problem.

[JBW]

I may be way off base here, but I feel that if you pick up an older body and a used macro lens, you should be able to get the close ups that you crave. I am of the opinion that, in the case of macrophotography, the pixel count is not as critical as in other types of photography. I use a Tamron 90mm on a Nikon D90 and I never feel the need to crop, both are readily available at my local brick and mortar (natcam.com). I quick review shows both can picked up for about $700(US).

used is hard to come by in this part of the Philippines.

[JBW]

The S4200 is a superzoom with a 500+ mm equivalent lens. That should give you plenty of reach. The specs claim a 2cm working distance in the macro range. I don't own the camera so don't know what it's capabilities are but those seem adequate for most bugs except the smallest.

If it allows manual focus mode, you might try setting it to it's closest focus and moving the camera back and forth to achieve focus. I notice you said shooting from a seated position. I find that a light monopod supports the weight of the camera nicely for this purpose and limits vertical movement. Roll and yaw can still be a problem though and if your hands are unsteady, perhaps you can work with some paracord to create limiters in other directions.

Roll and yaw are definitely a problem. As long as I am shooting a high contrast subject the specs are honest about the 2 cm. And I do get some really nice close ups. I would just like to go a little smaller and not need to do quite so much cropping. This lady is about 1.5 cm long.

[FrankMi]

Hi Brian, the write-ups I see seem to indicate that the S4200 has excellent macro capability for the money.

Without replacing the camera, would an additional filter style macro lens add-on work?

Focus stacking can be an effective option for flowers or static/very slow moving subjects. If you don't have precise control over the focus point (and bridge cameras are often difficult in this regard), you can use a slide rail provided you can lock the camera's focus point.

If you must replace the camera I would first (forgetting the cost for a moment) determine exactly what equipment would meet your needs then find the most cost-effective way to accomplish that goal.

[Shadowman]

I approach them slowly and carefully. When I do it right I can approach to within 2 or 3 cm of the subject. Shadow from the camera can be a problem.

At that distance you shouldn't have a problem with a bridge camera. Will that fill the frame with your intended subjects or do you want a bit of natural environment in the shot as well?