1st wedding as an amateur

[wellsie82]

My order of preference would be

Canon 600EX-RT / 600EX

Canon 580EX II

Canon 580EX

thanks for this - they seem on the pricey side for how often i'll use it & so ive been looking around. the 430ex ii (because of budget) seems to fit my bill in that it's cheaper (it's mid-end rather than at that high end so it would be), but the guide number is virtually the same as my current flash. because of my back, the weight is also a consideration for me, especially as ive upgraded bodies 3-4 months ago

it sounds as though any ttl flash would prove to be more beneficial than my current manual one though so this is the model im looking at today - thoughts?

[wellsie82]

Here's another problem:

So they expect that I'll produce great pictures - without any previous experience at weddings.

this is my issue, none of us (including you & i) actually know this. this is why i need to sit down with them (her) to get to the bottom of it

i'll put my cards on the table & i'll then get to the bottom of what they are after from my & my work. if they're expecting more than i think im anywhere near capable of i'll either completely walk away or offer to "do what i can" for free & they can give me a donation if they like it

to set the scene though, when he first asked me 12-15 months to do this, it wasn't because of my gear (i had the 550d with a 70-300, 50mm, 17-70mm & manual flash). it wasn't because of my wedding experience. it wasn't because of my previous work taking portraits because at that time, i had not taken any to show anyone (every "people picture" has been shot since he asked me)

the advice & feedback ive got on this thread has been overwhelming, ive noted all of it & discounted none of it. there are massive pitfalls to doing this job & it wasn't something i decided to do lightly

right now, my aim is to meet with them but until then, my focus is on getting my gear/settings right so that im as confident as i possibly can be

[Colin Southern]

thanks for this - they seem on the pricey side for how often i'll use it & so ive been looking around. the 430ex ii (because of budget) seems to fit my bill in that it's cheaper (it's mid-end rather than at that high end so it would be), but the guide number is virtually the same as my current flash. because of my back, the weight is also a consideration for me, especially as ive upgraded bodies 3-4 months ago

it sounds as though any ttl flash would prove to be more beneficial than my current manual one though so this is the model im looking at today - thoughts?

It sounds like the best chance I've got of getting you to get something ETTL compatible, so go for it

It's a great flash; I tend to avoid the mid-range because a lot of bounce work (which you need to be doing) can use all the power you have available, but at the end of the day, it's not like you're going to be thrashing it day in and day out.

For what it's worth, I currently own 6 Canon 600EX-RTs - and run them as two banks of 3 into 30" portable softboxes, held by assistants.

If you've got the time before the wedding then we probably need to use it getting you up to speed with as much additional work as we can - you really need to understand how they work in various camera modes etc.

[Colin Southern]

this is my issue, none of us (including you & i) actually know this. this is why i need to sit down with them (her) to get to the bottom of it

i'll put my cards on the table & i'll then get to the bottom of what they are after from my & my work. if they're expecting more than i think im anywhere near capable of i'll either completely walk away or offer to "do what i can" for free & they can give me a donation if they like it

to set the scene though, when he first asked me 12-15 months to do this, it wasn't because of my gear (i had the 550d with a 70-300, 50mm, 17-70mm & manual flash). it wasn't because of my wedding experience. it wasn't because of my previous work taking portraits because at that time, i had not taken any to show anyone (every "people picture" has been shot since he asked me)

the advice & feedback ive got on this thread has been overwhelming, ive noted all of it & discounted none of it. there are massive pitfalls to doing this job & it wasn't something i decided to do lightly

right now, my aim is to meet with them but until then, my focus is on getting my gear/settings right so that im as confident as i possibly can be

If you've got the budget, grab a copy of David Ziser's book Captured by the Light - it's available on Kindle (off memory I think he started shooting or shooting weddings around 1962 - and he's still going!). Very clever guy.

[wellsie82]

smashing, thanks for that. a friend also uses the same flash so when i saw the price, i went for it (it's now on its way)

with this in mind this gives me a back-up flash (ie the manual one will be the backup & if its needs be it can be mounted on the 550d)

i know the very basics of TTL flashes where it (in TTL mode of course) works out how much power to put out because of the pre-flash but ive got a couple of questions which you guys can probably answer pretty quickly

my preferred method of shooting is generally AV mode, I know that a small f number will isolate the subject whereas a high f number brings more of the scene into focus. on the 550d i would set the iso manually (because i wanted to control noise) but now on the 6d im finding noise less of a problem & because there are so many increments i can stay in auto iso, but perhaps with an upper limit

1 - im using the 6d with 24-105mm - av mode, f5.6 i half press the shutter over the persons face & lock the exposure because i use spot metering - this ensures the subject is correctly exposed. i then recompose & shoot. the iso might give me 800 & the shutter is say 1/60. the face looks ok. i then bring in the ttl flash & repeat the same steps. what is the outcome? does it not fire the flash because ambient light levels are ok? does it say "if i put out xyz of power, that iso can be lowered to reduce noise so im going to change the iso"? does the flash fire say a minimum output to act as fill?

2 - if the ttl flash is connected, will it always fire or are there circumstances when it doesn't (because it's not needed)?

no doubt the answers will come out when i test it, but im the type of person who wants to understand how it works & how it does things

[William W]

It also helps to skirt around another potential issue ive come across yesterday in that in AV or SP modes on the 6d (and 550d for that matter), the max iso is 400 which probably wouldn't be high enough (depending on ambient light levels of course).

When using a 6D in Av Mode or Tv Mode you have the FULL RANGE of the camera's ISO available to you.

If the ISO is limited, then I suspect that you have initiated the functionality "Setting the ISO Speed Range" and / or "Setting the ISO Speed Range for Auto ISO".

You should consult your camera user manual.

(I assume "SP" mode is Tv Mode?)



***

As the back-up, it makes sense that you earlier mentioned the 50 f1.8 rather than the 85 f1.8 - assume this is because at the wedding you're after more than head/head&shoulders because of the details, the dresses & capturing the moments

It has nothing to do with whether you are making an Head Shot or a Full Length Shot.

It is because you mentioned that you would be inside.

The Photographer can always walk closer to make the framing that is required - or he can shoot wide and crop in post - but he cannot walk farther away, if his back is already against a wall.

Also - as a "Back UP Lens" - In the worst case - If the 6D goes down and the 24 to 105 goes down and you are left with a 550D and a 50mm lens you will still be scrambling . . . but you would have even less room to make any worthwhile shot indoors, if you only had an 85mm lens and a 550D.



WW

[wellsie82]

When using a 6D in Av Mode or Tv Mode you have the FULL RANGE of the camera's ISO available to you.

If the ISO is limited, then I suspect that you have initiated the functionality "Setting the ISO Speed Range" and / or "Setting the ISO Speed Range for Auto ISO".

You should consult your camera user manual.

(I assume "SP" mode is Tv Mode?)



***





It has nothing to do with whether you are making an Head Shot or a Full Length Shot.

It is because you mentioned that you would be inside.

The Photographer can always walk closer to make the framing that is required - or he can shoot wide and crop in post - but he cannot walk farther away, if his back is already against a wall.

Also - as a "Back UP Lens" - In the worst case - If the 6D goes down and the 24 to 105 goes down and you are left with a 550D and a 50mm lens you will still be scrambling . . . but you would have even less room to make any worthwhile shot indoors, if you only had an 85mm lens and a 550D.



WW

got you now, it's overall more versatile is what you're saying

with the 6d iso thing, with the flash mounted, the iso does only go up to iso 400 - there are plenty of forums ive seen it on too. this might be because my flash is manual. when my ttl flash arrives, i would expect this to be "lifted" together with min & max shutter speeds

sorry, yes i meant TV when i said SP - oops

[Glenn NK]

it sounds as though any ttl flash would prove to be more beneficial than my current manual one though so this is the model im looking at today - thoughts?

From my experience with weddings, if you're using a manual flash, you will not be able to follow the action and get proper exposure. My first two flashes (flash bulbs and a Honeywell electronic strobe - circa 1963) were manual (not linked to the camera's metering because the cameras didn't have a meter - yes, I'm that old). Correct exposure was a nightmare compared to today's units.

As I recall (the last time I used manual flash was prior to 1981), with manual flash, you estimate the distance to subject, and on the back of the unit, look up the f/stop, and set it on the camera. On a wedding you don't have time for this. When we used manual flash, everyone posed for the shots and waited for the photographer to get ready.

[drjuice]

Hi, Jason -

In one of your responses, you mention that the "site" will likely let you use your flash all day.

I'd like to make a plea on behalf of those of us who are always disturbed at the use of flash in any ceremony, whether wedding/funeral/first communions, etc. In my view, these are religious ceremonies regardless of whether a minister, priest, or judge presides over the occasion. As such they deserve the same respect as I would expect in a house of worship, even if they are held outdoors, in a private home, at a hotel.

As a consequence of individuals who have not paid this respect to the occasion, I'd ask that you do so.

I've been on the scene (in a friend of the bride and groom hat, not a photographer hat) when flash was used in such an instance and the bride didn't wait to go ballistic! The photographer turned out not to have cleared using the flash with the people getting married. I'd strongly suggest limiting the flash to the later celebrations.

I'm jes' sayin'....

virginia

[William W]

with the 6d iso thing, with the flash mounted, the iso does only go up to iso 400 - there are plenty of forums ive seen it on too.

I'm very curious about this: maybe you could link to a few examples, please.

WW

[wellsie82]

The photographer turned out not to have cleared using the flash with the people getting married. I'd strongly suggest limiting the flash to the later celebrations.

you make a good point, ultimately i'll do as a agreed with the couple & the person in overall charge of the wedding - my preference would be to use natural light - but having never been to the venue, im unsure what levels of ambient light there are

I'm very curious about this: maybe you could link to a few examples, please.

WW

sure, here's a couple & tbh i gave up after reading both as it looks risky to even attempt tweaking it. i would assume that the ettl flash which is on its way wont have the same limits

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3590695

http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=2952.0

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3201067

remember this is only in AV & TV, P & M are fine

many have suggested i shoot in M & this is something i may end up doing anyway, depending upon how my practising goes with the new flash & how confident i feel. as of now, it's AV

[proseak]

...but having never been to the venue, im unsure what levels of ambient light there are

I'd describe a visit, at similar times of say, as a good move

[William W]

. . .
sure, here's a couple & tbh i gave up after reading both as it looks risky to even attempt tweaking it. i would assume that the ettl flash which is on its way wont have the same limits

. . . thanks.

I only have had a very quick look at the first link. the first sentence reads (bold and underlined is mine for emphasis):

"when I shoot at parties (in low light) with a flash gun and select Auto ISO in Manual mode, the ISO won’t go over 400. Is there a workaround? Is is possible to go over that somehow and still use Auto ISO?


The user has selected "Auto ISO" - and that is the limiting factor for the ISO Range.

I referenced "Auto ISO" in post 46.

WW

[Colin Southern]

you make a good point, ultimately i'll do as a agreed with the couple & the person in overall charge of the wedding - my preference would be to use natural light - but having never been to the venue, im unsure what levels of ambient light there are

If the wedding is in a church then the minister trumps the bride, groom, wedding planner - he even trumps the mother of the bride

If it were me - personally - I'd try to negotiate flash use for only a few key shots - best compromise.

[Colin Southern]

my preferred method of shooting is generally AV mode, I know that a small f number will isolate the subject whereas a high f number brings more of the scene into focus. on the 550d i would set the iso manually (because i wanted to control noise) but now on the 6d im finding noise less of a problem & because there are so many increments i can stay in auto iso, but perhaps with an upper limit

With flash - in AV mode - the camera will attempt to obtain a standard exposure for both flash AND AMBIENT light zones; if that means a shutter speed so low that you get camera shake then "so be it" - so you need to watch your shutter speeds. AV mode with flash is great for outdoor shooting, but indoor you need to be very careful, and in low light you need to be downright paranoid; often it's better to just disregard ambient light and replace it with your own, but that can need a lot of firepower.

1 - im using the 6d with 24-105mm - av mode, f5.6 i half press the shutter over the persons face & lock the exposure because i use spot metering - this ensures the subject is correctly exposed.

Um, no. Spot metering doesn't ensure the bit under the spot is correctly exposed; what it will do is ensure a STANDARD exposure for that bit (ie middle gray). Spot meter a white cat and you'll get a gray cat. Spot meter a black cat and you'll get a gray cat. With spot metering you have to manually enter exposure compensation to adjust for how far the metered spot is supposed to be from a middle gray; if it's something like a wedding dress then you'll need to add close to +2EC. If it's black like a grooms suit you'll need -2EC.

If the scene is purely reflective, just use evaluative metering so that tones are recorded correctly. If there's significant backlighting then other metering modes may need to be used.

i then recompose & shoot. the iso might give me 800 & the shutter is say 1/60. the face looks ok. i then bring in the ttl flash & repeat the same steps. what is the outcome? does it not fire the flash because ambient light levels are ok? does it say "if i put out xyz of power, that iso can be lowered to reduce noise so im going to change the iso"? does the flash fire say a minimum output to act as fill?

Quite a few deep things to cover here.

- in situations where the camera needs to decide whether it's fill flash or the primary illuminant it goes by the overall EV of the scene. Off memory <10EV it assumes primary illuminant >12EV it assumes full, and in between it'll transition between the two. That mostly only applies to automatic modes like P mode though.

- In AV mode the camera will normally use NEVAC that reduces the ambient metering by about 1 stop when a flash is present. If you're using manual mode then you have to do that yourself.

- By the way, you've mentioned a few times now about using flash with auto ISO - I wouldn't do that personally as you lose control. You should be able to observe the shutter speed and change the ISO (use 1 stop steps) without taking your eye from the viewfinder.

- Exposure Lock becomes Flash Exposure Lock with a flash attached; when you press the FEL button it'll fire the preflash and then retain that value until you either take the shot or the metering times out. I'd be surprised if you need to use it - I'd just stick with working the FEC.

2 - if the ttl flash is connected, will it always fire or are there circumstances when it doesn't (because it's not needed)?

It'll always fire.

You might like to grab a copy of Mastering EOS Flash Photography by N K Guy (full disclosure: he sent me a courtesy copy - but he's still probably the most knowledgeable person in the world on Canon flashes). Syl Arena also has an excellent book. Both available on Kindle.

[wellsie82]

...but having never been to the venue, im unsure what levels of ambient light there are

I'd describe a visit, at similar times of say, as a good move

Yes this is a must - hoping to kill two birds with one stone & nail the couples expectations at the same time. Waiting for a date atm :-)

The user has selected "Auto ISO" - and that is the limiting factor for the ISO Range.

I referenced "Auto ISO" in post 46.

WW

Yes I use auto iso on the 6d with an upper limit of 3200 - it shouldn't therefore max out at iso400

[wellsie82]

With flash - in AV mode - the camera will attempt to obtain a standard exposure for both flash AND AMBIENT light zones; if that means a shutter speed so low that you get camera shake then "so be it" - so you need to watch your shutter speeds. AV mode with flash is great for outdoor shooting, but indoor you need to be very careful, and in low light you need to be downright paranoid; often it's better to just disregard ambient light and replace it with your own, but that can need a lot of firepower.



Um, no. Spot metering doesn't ensure the bit under the spot is correctly exposed; what it will do is ensure a STANDARD exposure for that bit (ie middle gray). Spot meter a white cat and you'll get a gray cat. Spot meter a black cat and you'll get a gray cat. With spot metering you have to manually enter exposure compensation to adjust for how far the metered spot is supposed to be from a middle gray; if it's something like a wedding dress then you'll need to add close to +2EC. If it's black like a grooms suit you'll need -2EC.

If the scene is purely reflective, just use evaluative metering so that tones are recorded correctly. If there's significant backlighting then other metering modes may need to be used.



Quite a few deep things to cover here.

- in situations where the camera needs to decide whether it's fill flash or the primary illuminant it goes by the overall EV of the scene. Off memory <10EV it assumes primary illuminant >12EV it assumes full, and in between it'll transition between the two. That mostly only applies to automatic modes like P mode though.

- In AV mode the camera will normally use NEVAC that reduces the ambient metering by about 1 stop when a flash is present. If you're using manual mode then you have to do that yourself.

- By the way, you've mentioned a few times now about using flash with auto ISO - I wouldn't do that personally as you lose control. You should be able to observe the shutter speed and change the ISO (use 1 stop steps) without taking your eye from the viewfinder.

- Exposure Lock becomes Flash Exposure Lock with a flash attached; when you press the FEL button it'll fire the preflash and then retain that value until you either take the shot or the metering times out. I'd be surprised if you need to use it - I'd just stick with working the FEC.



It'll always fire.

You might like to grab a copy of Mastering EOS Flash Photography by N K Guy (full disclosure: he sent me a courtesy copy - but he's still probably the most knowledgeable person in the world on Canon flashes). Syl Arena also has an excellent book. Both available on Kindle.

thanks colin for all this

since posting id actually read a good article (on dps i think) which mentions

use aperture priority mode outdoors, shutter priority mode indoors, and use manual mode for portraits

so that ties in with what you've said

handy to know that also when mounted, the flash always fires & that exposure lock because flash exposure lock (something i was going to test upon receipt of the new flash)

i'll check out that recommendation - looks very indepth

final question for today, we've mentioned spot metering (well i have because over the last 6 months that's how ive been doing a lot of shooting), for the wedding (& the parties over the coming weeks where i'll be practising using the flash) what metering mode should i ought to be using? or can i spot meter from a grey card that the subject holds & recompose?

[Colin Southern]

since posting id actually read a good article (on dps i think) which mentions

use aperture priority mode outdoors, shutter priority mode indoors, and use manual mode for portraits

I agree with the first and last bits, but using Tv priority is questionable (I don't). It's great that you can get the shutterspeed where you need it, but at any given ISO you're going to lose control of your aperture - which means you DoF is likely to be all over the place. I use manual or Av with questionable lighting.

handy to know that also when mounted, the flash always fires & that exposure lock because flash exposure lock (something i was going to test upon receipt of the new flash)

To be honest, it kinda worries me a little that you seem to feel a need to master this part of it first, when it's a feature that you probably shouldn't need to use a lot -- it almost feels like its compensating for other areas that aren't right.

final question for today, we've mentioned spot metering (well i have because over the last 6 months that's how ive been doing a lot of shooting), for the wedding (& the parties over the coming weeks where i'll be practising using the flash) what metering mode should i ought to be using? or can i spot meter from a grey card that the subject holds & recompose?

I think we might need to take a step back and ask ourselves "why are there various metering modes in the first place?" Put simply they're just a way for us to tell the camera which parts of the scene are important to consider. Normally, all you'll need is Evaluative; it's quite capable of figuring out what's white, what's black, and exposing them correctly. In the case where there's something of interest in the middle, but something (like back lighting) towards the periphery of the shot that might throw off the metering then partial might be a better bet. Spot metering says "only what's under the spot is important", but spot-metering makes you work harder because there are likely to be only a narrow range of tones in the metered portion - so it's far far far far more likely that you'll need to enter a correction to offset the amount the subject varies from a middle gray -- and at a wedding you don't have time to much round with that. I'd be using evaluative - dial in the aperture I need - see what my shutter speed was - up the ISO if it was too low, lower the ISO if the SS was too high - and start shooting. You won't need to change ISO unless shooting conditions change dramatically.

Just make sure highlight alert is turned on; if you're getting blinkies in important areas (like Bride's dress) just dial in some -VE EC. If you're shooting RAW (as you should be) then with evaluative metering and no EC you'd have to try pretty hard to much up the exposures to the point where the image couldn't be recovered. Just don't under-expose at high ISO. If there are no blinkies and the image looks reasonable on the review screen then move on to the next shot; you're going to be averaging 3 or 4 shots a minute for hours -- no time for gray cards I'm afraid.

On that note - make sure you have enough charged camera and flash batteries. And enough cards.

Edit: For what it's worth, outside on a sunny day, Use evaluative, Av mode, and dial in -1EC to stop things washing out, and -0.67 FEC so you don't get an over-flashed look - you should be good to go with those settings. Inside during the day you can probably use same mode, but at 400 / 800 ISO and probably lose the -1EC. Inside at night (artificial lights) you just have to go with the flow on that one - I'd be manual - reasonably high ISO - and just work the settings; in those circumstances at least a monopod would be helpful (and have any IS modes on).

[William W]

Yes I use auto iso on the 6d with an upper limit of 3200 - it shouldn't therefore max out at iso400

I haven't used a 6D for longer than a few shots just to hold the camera and to feel its balance: but I believe that I am reasonably familiar with mostly all of the EOS Functionalities one of these is Auto ISO.

I think that you will find that upon Engaging Auto ISO, you will be allowed to select / limit the Range of ISO (That is what you are referring to).

But when Auto ISO is engaged and there is an Active Flash Present, (i.e Flash on the hot-shoe and flash power is on) the camera will OVERRIDE your ISO selection and limit the UPPER ISO.

On a 6D that Upper Limit might be ISO 400 - and it is the fact that you have Auto ISO engaged that this limit is automatically engaged.

You can solve this issue by NOT using Auto ISO.

You will NOT solve this issue by using another Flash Unit.

Although I do not have a 6D User Manual at hand - and I am limited for time ATM to download one - I think that this functionality will be spelled out in it. If I get a chance later, I will look it up. The 550D also has Auto ISO avaiable and its USer Manual too will have a note about using an Hot-shoe Flash when Auto ISO is enaged.

In the User Manuals there will be a table Outlining the Maximum and Minumum ISO available for diffeent Camera Mode Selections (eg P Tv Av M B etc) and then there will be a specific labelled "FLASH".

Some EOS Cameras will SET only ONE ISO when an Active Flash is detected on the Hot-Shoe: that is there will NOT be any RANGE of ISO available to use.

This matter is not about the type of Flash Unit you have on the Hot-shoe - it is all about having Auto ISO Engaged and then putting ANY Flash onthe Hot-shoe.

***

I have always assumed that you would NOT be using Auto ISO - as per post #8 – here where I outlined a common procedure that is used by many Pros for Flash Shooting:

. . . The bottom line consideration is that, as well as riding the Power of the Flash and the Flash DISTANCE for the Flash Exposure Component; you will be (should be) riding the Shutter Speed to control the AMBIENT Exposure Component.
Both these EXPOSURES will have to be addressed AFTER you choose the APERTURE for the DoF that you require.
And as a precursor to your choice of APERTURE, you must choose an ISO to allow for an appropriate RANGE of APERTURES to be at your disposal.

But now that I understand that you are using Auto ISO, I suggest that you do not, especially when using Flash –the reason is the above (very limiting) ISO that you have available to use - and you have discovered that already.

WW

[wellsie82]

To be honest, it kinda worries me a little that you seem to feel a need to master this part of it first, when it's a feature that you probably shouldn't need to use a lot -- it almost feels like its compensating for other areas that aren't right.

i was just commenting that it was helpful that the exposure lock button which i use happens to be the same button when locking flash - that was all

I think we might need to take a step back and ask ourselves "why are there various metering modes in the first place?" Put simply they're just a way for us to tell the camera which parts of the scene are important to consider. Normally, all you'll need is Evaluative; it's quite capable of figuring out what's white, what's black, and exposing them correctly. In the case where there's something of interest in the middle, but something (like back lighting) towards the periphery of the shot that might throw off the metering then partial might be a better bet. Spot metering says "only what's under the spot is important", but spot-metering makes you work harder because there are likely to be only a narrow range of tones in the metered portion - so it's far far far far more likely that you'll need to enter a correction to offset the amount the subject varies from a middle gray -- and at a wedding you don't have time to much round with that. I'd be using evaluative - dial in the aperture I need - see what my shutter speed was - up the ISO if it was too low, lower the ISO if the SS was too high - and start shooting. You won't need to change ISO unless shooting conditions change dramatically.

Just make sure highlight alert is turned on; if you're getting blinkies in important areas (like Bride's dress) just dial in some -VE EC. If you're shooting RAW (as you should be) then with evaluative metering and no EC you'd have to try pretty hard to much up the exposures to the point where the image couldn't be recovered. Just don't under-expose at high ISO. If there are no blinkies and the image looks reasonable on the review screen then move on to the next shot; you're going to be averaging 3 or 4 shots a minute for hours -- no time for gray cards I'm afraid.

On that note - make sure you have enough charged camera and flash batteries. And enough cards.

Edit: For what it's worth, outside on a sunny day, Use evaluative, Av mode, and dial in -1EC to stop things washing out, and -0.67 FEC so you don't get an over-flashed look - you should be good to go with those settings. Inside during the day you can probably use same mode, but at 400 / 800 ISO and probably lose the -1EC. Inside at night (artificial lights) you just have to go with the flow on that one - I'd be manual - reasonably high ISO - and just work the settings; in those circumstances at least a monopod would be helpful (and have any IS modes on).

thanks for these tips on the settings & gear. i was going to use tripod for the group shots, perhaps the portraits & monopod for all others on the day

yeah i'll be getting through batteries like there's no tomorrow i reckon - had a decent box 40 aa's held back for some months & not yet opened so they'll start me off - but i'll take as many charged ones as i can get my hands on too

But now that I understand that you are using Auto ISO, I suggest that you do not, especially when using Flash –the reason is the above (very limiting) ISO that you have available to use - and you have discovered that already.

WW

im only using auto iso without the flash, it was just a comment that i made about how mounting the flash then makes the iso a constant of 400. given im yet to get my hands on (or ever use) the ttl flash, i'll be starting all over again when it comes to flash photography. with the manual flash in the past ive normally gone with the 85mm, f1.8-4 with an iso of 100/200 depending on light levels or perhaps auto with 6d, however the ttl flash will mean i start from scratch & learn the ropes all over again - starting of course with the advice given in this thread

on another note, ive had some email exchanges with the groom today over dates/times to meet him & the bride - when i mentioned that part of the reason to meet them both is to discuss their expectations he informed me that "they dont have expectations because this is my first wedding". i've got further questions to put to them surrounding what they want, how they want me to execute it, timings, list of images (to name just some), but none the less his words today were welcoming