Shooting Raw

[Erich Gray]

I tried searching this in the forums but could not find anything.

I have been wanting to start working with RAW. Havn't worked with it before. I am wondering if you shoot raw and why? I am wanting to know the pros and cons of raw vs jpeg.

Thanks, Erich

[DanK]

Erich,

Welcome to CIC.

One of the many nice things about this site is that it has very good tutorials. I suggest you start by going to the tutorials page. Pick the 'editing and postprocessing' link on the left. The page it will take you to starts with three tutorials about image types, including jpeg, tiff, and raw. The raw file page has more detail than you may want, but skim that, and you will find sections on the advantages of the raw format. Once you have gone over that, then post with your questions and folks will add to that.

This is more efficient and thorough than folks improvise on the fly.

Dan

[Erich Gray]

Thank you Dan. Great.!!

Erich

[rpcrowe]

The aforementioned tutorials are great. I have to admit that I am a great fan of RAW and never shoot in JPEG.

Three of my favorite aspects regarding RAW have to do with opening the image in Adobe Camera RAW (ACR).

I do not have to worry about what color balance I used when shooting an image. I shoot everything in RAW with auto white balance selected. Recently, I shot some imagery as a test for a friend using tungsten balance outdoors in bright sun... No problem with RAW.

The white balance dropper (under the ACR Basic Panel) is a marvelous tool. It is just so easy to get a starting white balance by selecting the eyedropper and the selecting an area of the image which is white. I shoot a white balance target (usually a WhiBal) or just use the white coats of my dogs as a target...

The second is found in the Lens Corrections Panel of ACR. This makes it very easy to eyeball horizontal and vertical lines (using the grid which you select and deselect with the "V" key). You can easily correct the horizon and for horizontal distortions (buildings falling backward, etc.) using the sliders.

These two aspects of ACR are so important to me, that when I open a JPEG (one sent to me - I always shoot in RAW) I will choose Open As> Camera Raw.

Another plus for RAW is that correcting images shot with RAW is nondestructive and I can always go back to the original, non-corrected image.

There are lots of other advantages to using RAW (including being able to correct a batch of images and open them with the corrections) but, I am mentioning only these.

I will concede that there is a place for shooting JPEG - for sports photographers who send their images to the editor electronically and need an image corrected in the camera. However, this doesn't necessarily pertain to photojournalists who send their images electronically. The photojournalist will be shooting under such a variety of conditions that the flexibility of RAW would be important. And even though time is of the essence in photojournalism, split second timing is not quite as important as in sports photography.

Some photographers offer that you can shoot a longer burst using JPEG than you can in RAW. I submit that this is a matter of equipment. I can shoot 25 full size RAW images in a single burst using my 7D. I have NEVER needed a burst longer that that. Additionally, using UDMA capability of my 7D combined with a modern UDMA CF card, the RAW files write to the camera very quickly and can be downloaded to the computer very quickly using a UDMA capable card reader...

[Geoff F]

Start with the CinC Tutorials, as previously mentioned. Then if you need more information, try here

http://ronbigelow.com/articles/raw/raw.htm

and more information.

http://ronbigelow.com/articles/workf...flow_basic.htm

[Colin Southern]

Hi Erich,

In "50 words of less", JPEG is like a cake that you buy and RAW is like a cake you bake yourself.

When you buy a cake (JPEG) you're stuck with how the cook chose to process the ingredients (albeit with perhaps some "guidelines" from you). With a cake you bake yourself (RAW) you have the creative freedom to do whatever you want with it. Once you buy a pre-make cake there's only a very limited number of things you can do to change it.

Having just said that, you can edit JPEGs, but because they're designed to be as small as possible, a LOT of information that we can't see is discarded. The information that's discarded isn't a problem IF (and only if) the resulting image is what you want; if the camera gets it wrong and it isn't to your liking then there's not as much extra info available to recover it (a RAW file has a LOT more info available).

Hope this helps. Personally, I couldn't care less if any of my cameras didn't even have a JPEG mode; it's not something that I use.

[mknittle]

Hi Erich,

In "50 words of less", JPEG is like a cake that you buy and RAW is like a cake you bake yourself.

When you buy a cake (JPEG) you're stuck with how the cook chose to process the ingredients (albeit with perhaps some "guidelines" from you). With a cake you bake yourself (RAW) you have the creative freedom to do whatever you want with it. Once you buy a pre-make cake there's only a very limited number of things you can do to change it.

Having just said that, you can edit JPEGs, but because they're designed to be as small as possible, a LOT of information that we can't see is discarded. The information that's discarded isn't a problem IF (and only if) the resulting image is what you want; if the camera gets it wrong and it isn't to your liking then there's not as much extra info available to recover it (a RAW file has a LOT more info available).

Hope this helps. Personally, I couldn't care less if any of my cameras didn't even have a JPEG mode; it's not something that I use.

I like your analogy Colin.

[Colin Southern]

I like your analogy Colin.

Anything to do with food and I'm your man

[Jim35010]

I really like Colin's response. Actually, I was thinking how I could use this analogy at our photo club, even before I got to the end.
Thanks Colin:

[Rita]

Hi Erich,

In "50 words of less", JPEG is like a cake that you buy and RAW is like a cake you bake yourself.

When you buy a cake (JPEG) you're stuck with how the cook chose to process the ingredients (albeit with perhaps some "guidelines" from you). With a cake you bake yourself (RAW) you have the creative freedom to do whatever you want with it. Once you buy a pre-make cake there's only a very limited number of things you can do to change it.

Having just said that, you can edit JPEGs, but because they're designed to be as small as possible, a LOT of information that we can't see is discarded. The information that's discarded isn't a problem IF (and only if) the resulting image is what you want; if the camera gets it wrong and it isn't to your liking then there's not as much extra info available to recover it (a RAW file has a LOT more info available).

Hope this helps. Personally, I couldn't care less if any of my cameras didn't even have a JPEG mode; it's not something that I use.

This is a super analogy Colin. Recently started playing with shooting raw. I have read tutorials and been given explanations about raw but never quit got it. This has turned the light bulb on for me, or should I say it has "put the icing on the cake". Seriously now, this has really helped me.

[Colin Southern]

This is a super analogy Colin. Recently started playing with shooting raw. I have read tutorials and been given explanations about raw but never quit got it. This has turned the light bulb on for me, or should I say it has "put the icing on the cake". Seriously now, this has really helped me.

Glad I could help.

Be aware though, that just like someone who's used to buying pre-made cakes who starts baking from scratch, RAW processing can be a bit of a step backwards at first; kinda like "BUT I DON'T WANT THIS MUCH RESPONSIBILITY!"

So it can take a bit of training to spot image issues (like contrast and sharpening issues), but it's all worth it in the end

[Colin Southern]

I really like Colin's response. Actually, I was thinking how I could use this analogy at our photo club, even before I got to the end.
Thanks Colin:

You're very welcome Jim - glad I could help.

[Richard Lundberg]

Yes, but the real analogy is that RAW is what used to be the undeveloped film, and jpeg is what you got from the drugstore.

[AB26]

Hi Erich,

Colin left out something in his analogy. Shooting RAW whilst using the correct “JPEG” settings, turns the cook into a pastry chef.

In the beginning I was a staunched JPEG shooter. Shooting JPEG you need to get to know your camera settings to get it right. With RAW you have so much more data captured that it gives you lots more options in PP.
The big advantage, I find, from learning to shoot JPEG is that I now apply the same settings shooting RAW. It is the wrong option to choose RAW simply to allow you to “fix” the image in PP. Your goal should always be to get it as right as you possibly can, in camera. Knowing what settings to use, to capture the mood in that moment in time, will reduce the time you have to spend doing PP.

There are moments, especially shooting landscapes and nature, you will find you will not be able to recall what it really looked like in that moment in time you pressed the shutter button, once you have downloaded the images to a computer. Even trying to duplicate that mood, in PP, you might find you cannot reconstruct the mood in that moment in time. With the skills of mastering camera settings, learned from shooting JPEG, you will be able to capture the essence of the mood in that moment even in RAW. If you can do it in RAW your final images will just look so much better.

A big advantage of JPEG is of cause the number of images you can cram into a relatively small capacity memory card. With RAW you will only get more or less ⅓ of the number of images on the same capacity memory card.

I am not sure how camera specific Adobe is, from a friend of mine, I understand you got to tell Adobe exactly what camera you have used. I use ACDSee, doing my PP, and find it to be very Nikon friendly, even more so than Nikon View NX2.

Shoot RAW but use the “JPEG camera settings” you have used before. Never neglect those buttons on your camera.

[Colin Southern]

I am not sure how camera specific Adobe is, from a friend of mine, I understand you got to tell Adobe exactly what camera you have used.

(Assuming you're meaning Adobe Camera RAW or Adobe Photoshop Lightroom; "Adobe" is a company, not a product) If you're shooting with a supported camera then you don't need to tell it anything - it already knows what camera and (usually) what lens you're using and it will automatically select the correct camera profiles to use.

[dabhand]

Cook your own cakes or buy them - shoot RAW + JPG and get the best of both worlds. A 16GB sd card cost around £15 - that means I can store around 500 images (RAW +JPG) which is way more than I shoot in a day and if I do need more, slip in another card.

It does help address Andre's point of recalling what it really looked like in that moment in time you pressed the shutter button, which can also help you understand why you took the image in the first place.

However, you may not want to recreate that moment in time and/or had an alternative approach in mind and that is where having the RAW image comes into it's own.

[Mike Buckley]

I have no idea what all this excitement about cake analogies is about. If the analogy doesn't mention wine, it can't be very helpful.

[bugster0121]

Why not hold off baking the cake unless u need to? Personally I gv up shooting raw+jpeg and capture raw only.

[AB26]

(Assuming you're meaning Adobe Camera RAW or Adobe Photoshop Lightroom; "Adobe" is a company, not a product) If you're shooting with a supported camera then you don't need to tell it anything - it already knows what camera and (usually) what lens you're using and it will automatically select the correct camera profiles to use.

[I guess, pretty much like Volkswagen (the company), produces cars called Volkswagen.
Have not yet heard of any “Photographer” using Adobe Reader to edit images. ( Adobe Reader and Adobe Flash Player are also products of the same company called Adobe Systems Inc. )]

In other words you got to make sure your specific camera is supported by whatever Adobe, digital photographic image, editing software product, you wish to use.

[xpatUSA]

I am wondering if you shoot raw and why? I am wanting to know the pros and cons of raw vs jpeg.

Thanks, Erich

A simple answer for me. My Sigma cameras only shoot RAW, so I have no choice in the matter! The daily battle of getting good images out of them brings it's own satisfaction though

My Panasonic shoots both. It's JPEGs are excellent and are perfect for vacation, family shots, snaps of building work-in-progress, etc. I rarely shoot RAW with it, they're that good.

It always bothers me a bit when I read "I only shoot RAW" or "I never shoot RAW".

BTW, let's not be forgetting that some cameras can also shoot DNG or TIFF - anybody here 'only' do that?

cheers,