Portable studio lights

[wilgk]

I am wondering if any members have a suggestion as to affordable portable studio style lighting.
When I say studio style! I am probably not explaining properly! but that is because I really have no idea what is out there including continuous light sources.
The situation is the sports club team group shoots, some gyms venues are just very dark with dark timber flooring and with a high tin roof.
Sort of like a big cave, with nowhere that acts as a bounce or reflecting area to aid my lights.
I currently do the job with speed lights into reflective umbrellas fired using pocketwizards.
Any suggestions and links would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,

[Andrew76]

Hi Kay,

What is it that the Speedlites aren't doing for you, that you would like to improve on? I think knowing that might get you some better advice from the members here.

[Shadowman]

What is the size of your groups? Photographer Jim McNally described a technique he used where he had athletes (group of four) handhold small flash units to provide key form shaping lighting.

[shreds]

Just bear in mind how cumbersome and in some cases, heavy studio lighting is if you are having to cart it around. Plus you may need power sources nearby and wiring, unless you use even heavier batteries! Speedlights and PW with brollies are used by a lot of 'mobile' photographers because of their flexibility.

[dan marchant]

Studio lights (Strobes) are basically more powerful Speedlights. The increased power means they can light a larger area and the more powerful (and portable) ones can be used out-doors to overpower the sun. Of course being more poewrful requires more power, s you need a much bigger power-pack and the lights themselves are much bigger. Many strobes contain a small second lamp referred to as a modelling light. This allows you to see (in a darkened studios) even when the Strobes aren't firing. They also allow you to get an idea of how the light will fall on your subject when the Strobe fires.

Strobes are different to continuous lights. Strobes emit a (more powerful) flash of light, in the same way a Speedlite does, whereas continuous lights, as the name suggest, emit continuous light. Continuous lights are normally only used for video/filming work because the continuous output generates a lot of heat (especially in an enclosed space) as well as using a lot of power (making them unsuitable for use with most portable power-packs).

[wilgk]

Hi Kay,

What is it that the Speedlites aren't doing for you, that you would like to improve on? I think knowing that might get you some better advice from the members here.

Thanks Andrew, good idea
The group is 10 players plus 3 or 4 staff, so quite big for a team and I want to light the space rather than the group, as a flat light without shadow is probably preferred rather than something more interesting in terms of direction, as all parents will want to see their child nicely exposed with no shadow on their face.
I have had success with speed lights into reflective umbrellas in an 'ordinary' gym, and this set yip lights my garage perfectly, where the roof is low to get some bounce and the floor is light to get some reflection, putting the same setup into a cavernous dark gym it just loses its oomph

[wilgk]

What is the size of your groups? Photographer Jim McNally described a technique he used where he had athletes (group of four) handhold small flash units to provide key form shaping lighting.

Hi John, thanks yes I have seen that e.g my group is too big and juniors so I cannot get too creative with directional light... Although having the coach/s stand to the side holding a light and pointing it at the kids could be an idea with a bit of an edge.

[Colin Southern]

Hi Kay,

To get a professional-grade shot you'd probably be quite surprised at the cost of the gear needed.

You really have 3 lighting choices;

- Multiple speedlites - on stands, up high. I wouldn't like to do it with any less than 4, and even that would be a compromise.

- Portable heads like the Elinchrom Quadra (or Ranger series if you're rich); these have their own battery packs and triggers - and are roughly equivalent to around 3 or 4 speedlites each.

- Studio heads. Best "bang for buck", but will require external power.

With any of these, it's not just the lights - it's things like diffusers and stands too; with a big group you can't just bang a shoot-through brolly at either end as there will be significant light falloff for those in the middle - so ideally you want them elevated and forward - and pointing down on them (a-la C-Stand), or even several lights firing into a diffuser that's as wide as the group. Not easy.

If it were me shooting it I'd have an assistant or two - probably 2 strobes on the players and a couple more illuminating the backdrop / background.

I'm not saying it can't be done will less gear, but it just makes it harder and with more compromises.

Click on this ...

http://www.joemcnally.com/blog/2010/...x-engine-nine/

Scroll towards the bottom, and take a look at fire station group shot - and then the gear used to do it.

[Ken MT]

Here is an example of a grab shot of a rugby team getting ready for team photo. Used two strobes with reflector umbrellas, in a room that had a light coloured ceiling, light blue carpet and a dark blue curtain behind.ISO 200, 1/125 sec, f8. Some shadowing towards centre, and the shot was to see how it looked before starting in earnest.

[RustBeltRaw]

This thread's making me question the wisdom of taking on a full-league portrait of the Detroit Derby Girls. Somewhere around 100 subjects, and I have three Speedlites. Fill light only, methinks.

[Manfred M]

The important thing to remember is that studio lights are more or less an order of magnitude (~ 10x) more powerful than Speedlights. If you think about; studio lights plug into the wall and draw power there, while Speedlights are designed to work primarily with AA batteries.

I have a friend, who is a professional photographer who loves his new (got them last fall) Elinchrom Quadras, but he uses them exclusively for outdoor work. Most of the rest of his work is either in his studio, where he has standard lights and weddings, where he shoots SB-900 / 910 Speedlights.

I have a battery pack for my Einstein 640 units, but have only gotten out with them a few times. Usually, I shot with them plugged in somewhere (and potentially creating a tripping hazard with all the cords on the floor). My Einsteins cost about the same as my Nikon SB-900 Speedlight.

Next issue is how to control the lighting. One needs a large light source to provide a large, soft light source. If it were me, I would be tempted to look at two or three Photogenic 60" umbrellas, given the indoor setting for this work. This is really the tricky part, because small soft boxes set back are going to cast some undesirably harsh light with resultant shadows. Positioning the lights fairly high up will mitigate this problem.

[inkista]

Lex--maybe time to grab an AlienBee or Einstein? In the USA, at least, we've got the option of the Buff lights being a lower cost alternative to, say, Profotos.

[Mike Buckley]

Continuous lights are normally only used for video/filming work because the continuous output generates a lot of heat (especially in an enclosed space)

That's not true for compact fluorescent bulbs, which can be used for limited studio work such as product photography. They don't generate enough light for the situation being discussed in this thread, but I didn't want people thinking that all continuous light solutions generate a lot of heat.

[Manfred M]

That's not true for compact fluorescent bulbs, which can be used for limited studio work such as product photography. They don't generate enough light for the situation being discussed in this thread, but I didn't want people thinking that all continuous light solutions generate a lot of heat.

Quite right Mike, the other issue with continuous light (even the modern cool lights) is that the level of light output is quite low as compared to studio strobes, so it makes for relatively long exposures at larger apertures too. So tripod shots and models that know how to sit very still are required.

You might be able to get away with a single model, but both of these would be real issues for group shots.

[RustBeltRaw]

Lex--maybe time to grab an AlienBee or Einstein? In the USA, at least, we've got the option of the Buff lights being a lower cost alternative to, say, Profotos.

Eventually, yes. Einsteins are beautiful lights, but I can't get my hands on them by next Wednesday, and my bank account is currently reeling from student loan payments and an inexplicable new desire to mess with large format film. I have an offer in on a Sinar P1, which I sort of hope gets rejected so I have an excuse to delay my plans.

For now, I'm going to trigger three 600EX-RTs on full-power manual in umbrellas about 8ft off the ground, and live with whatever I get. Which I will not be happy with.

[inkista]

Eventually, yes. Einsteins are beautiful lights, but I can't get my hands on them by next Wednesday, and my bank account is currently reeling...

Ummm... lensrentals.com overnights stuff, sometimes.

Just a no-doubt evil thought, unless you've already got stands that can take 'em.

[wilgk]

Thankyou everyone & I am glad others are learning from my question as well.. I have to dash out to huff n puff (trying to stay fit in my old age) on my return I will study all replies & post some more examples, that I have found overnight our time...

[Manfred M]

Lex - we must be birds of a feather. My graduation present to myself was a Leica (took priority over paying back the student loan; back when I graduated, the first 6 months after graduation, there was no interest payment on the student loan). By the time my wife finshed her MA a couple of years later, I got her one too (that way we could share slowly growing selection of lenses).

I did pay back the student loan within about 12 months of graduation (it wasn't all that large), and really only (semi)retired the cameras when I went digital about 5 years ago. I don't think my modern gear is going to last nearly that long.

[Colin Southern]

The important thing to remember is that studio lights are more or less an order of magnitude (~ 10x) more powerful than Speedlights. If you think about; studio lights plug into the wall and draw power there, while Speedlights are designed to work primarily with AA batteries.

Absolutely. And even though they may be around 10 times as powerful, EVEN THAT often doesn't make as much difference as one would hope (I suspect that often it's because the more powerful the light, the bigger the diffuser that's used to get a better quality (not just quantity) of light, and the two offset each other).

I have a friend, who is a professional photographer who loves his new (got them last fall) Elinchrom Quadras, but he uses them exclusively for outdoor work. Most of the rest of his work is either in his studio, where he has standard lights and weddings, where he shoots SB-900 / 910 Speedlights.

And even then they're best for individuals and couples.

Next issue is how to control the lighting. One needs a large light source to provide a large, soft light source. If it were me, I would be tempted to look at two or three Photogenic 60" umbrellas, given the indoor setting for this work. This is really the tricky part, because small soft boxes set back are going to cast some undesirably harsh light with resultant shadows. Positioning the lights fairly high up will mitigate this problem.

I keep asking myself "how would Joe McNally light an entire team?" I can't answer for Joe, but assuming poor quality wasn't an option, I strongly suspect it would involve a couple of C-Stands holding a diffuser that was the width and depth of the team - several studio strobes firing into them - something else handling the background - and (knowing Joe) a few more thrown in for good luck. Getting a good result in poor light means replacing the crappy light with your own good light, and that's a lot easier said than done, unless circumstances fall in one's favour.

[Mike Buckley]

Lex - we must be birds of a feather.

Enough so that quickly glancing at your avatars while scrolling through the posts without concentrating on them makes one think they are the same.