Monitor calibration and color isssues

[pnodrog]

thanks, L. Paul. There is so much involved in Digital Photography, that I feel like I will never learn the bulk of it! I knew it saved the LR adjustments, but I didn't know the things I did in PS were also there… So you do control E, so on mac would be command e? I will have to check that out if you don't know. I usually need to have them converted to jpeg… and in PS I can't save a 16 bit as a jpeg…. so when you're export, do you do tiffs or jpegs and do you save at 16 bit?

I normally export as jpeg sRGB but sometimes as TIFF you can also export as PSD , DNG or as it was originally. Nearly every thing I export will be used on the web but once a month I need to produce a brochure at work so I export as TIFF adobeRGB (1998) and the publishing software latter exports them as either postscript or PDF depending on who is printing them. PDF seems to be the most universal file accepted by the people I deal with (signs, magazines, local papers etc).

[Macmahon]

I save my file from PS as a jpeg, and it has the option to embed the sRGB profile. Maybe this is a dumb question…I know that LR makes a copy of edits I make in LR, so you say you close the file and go back to LR, does LR automatically detect the edits you did in PS? Never processed that way, so sorry if it seems like a dumb question.

Sandy

It looks to me as if you're doing everything OK up to the 'Save as jpeg in PS step'. Up to here you've been working in the ProPhoto colour space (a good thing, IMHO). But when you export you say you 'embed sRGB' — this maybe the misstep. If you merely 'embed' the colour space, your file will carrying information to the printer's software that says the colour numbers should be interpreted as sRGB numbers. But if you haven't actually converted from ProPhoto to sRGB you may well be sending the wrong message.

I would suggest two options.

1 - consistent with your current workflow: Immediately before you 'save as' from Photoshop, do an Image/Convert to Profile and choose sRGB. That will convert the image data from ProPhoto into sRGB data. (You may lose some highly saturated blues/cyans but the effect will probably be subtle.) Now you can save as, and embed sRGB.

2- my preferred method would be to bring the edited TIFF file back into Lightroom, and Export to jpeg from there. The controls in the export dialogue are very straightforward. You just specify sRGB as the output space and the colour space conversion and 'embedding' are done automatically.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Tim

[sandifersings]

Thanks, Tim, I will try that.

[sandifersings]

Okay so I went to do that, and it was already in the sRGB profile…but here is a screen shot of the dialog box… .What about the box that has "Intent"? Is that correct?

[sandifersings]

or maybe it doesn't matter since I wouldn't be converting it if it's already the correct profile….

[pnodrog]

or maybe it doesn't matter since I wouldn't be converting it if it's already the correct profile….

You could try the following :-

In photoshop go to Edit colour settings. Set work space to ProPhoto RGB 16bit, tick Profile mismatches warning, and set RGB to Preserve Embedded Profiles.
When or if you need to edit in photoshop open using Ctrl E from LR develop module, do photoshop edit then close file (it should save a copy with edit in the name) and it should now be available in LR
Do all your export for the printer (conversion to sRGB and Jpeg etc) using LR.

Your current work flow is compromising the quality of anything you edit in photoshop. It may not be of any significance at present but in the future you may be kicking yourself.

The theory is to keep all the images at the best possible quality level and only discard unwanted information when it will no longer be needed..e.g. exported images not the images in the catalogue.

[Macmahon]

[QUOTE=sandifersings;378414]Okay so I went to do that, and it was already in the sRGB profile…but here is a screen shot of the dialog box… .What about the box that has "Intent"? Is that correct?

Hi again Sandy

This all looks cool! I was surprised that your source space is sRGB, but then I went back and reread your previous posts and discovered that you already converted to sRGB when passing the image from LR to PS. I, personally, would not have done that — I'd keep the file in ProPhoto whilst working in PS to retain maximum colour gamut, just as L.Paul described. But what you have done should work within the sRGB gamut. That won't be the cause of your problems.

However, in my re-reading a 'light bulb went off'.

You said in your first post that your images look 'too warm' on screen so you have been compensating for that. Guess what? Compensating for "too warmness" is almost certainly achieved by reducing yellows or boosting blues (same thing).
Now, if in fact it is your monitor, and not the image, which is too warm, you'll be making your picture more blue and an accurate print will reflect that.

I am now suspicious that the problem is in your monitor calibration. When you use the Spyder to calibrate your monitor do you look at Datacolor's test image? Does it look too warm? If so there's your answer: the Spyder is indeed creating too warm a profile on your monitor.

I don't use a Spyder for my monitor - I went off their products after several frustrating years - so I'm unsure whether it's possible to use the Spyder monitor calibration software to tweak the profile. If it is, I'd be doing the 'de-warming' there, and not on your perfectly fine photo images!

Hope this helps

Tim

PS Whether you choose Rel Col or Perceptual for rendering intent really depends on the image, and you can only tell by doing an accurate soft proof. As you're sending out to print this will be a step too far. Sticking with Relative Colorimetric is usually a good default choice.

[Polar01]

I have not seen any reference to the versions of LR and Photoshop that are being used. There was a problem with older versions of the two programs when something done in LR was put into PS, and then brought back into LR. That was because they used two different engine platforms which resulted in a colour change. With LR5 and CS6 and up they use the same platforms so there is not colour change. So one thing that is really needed to know is what versions of these programs you are using.

Cheers: Allan

[Macmahon]

I have not seen any reference to the versions of LR and Photoshop that are being used. There was a problem with older versions of the two programs when something done in LR was put into PS, and then brought back into LR. That was because they used two different engine platforms which resulted in a colour change. With LR5 and CS6 and up they use the same platforms so there is not colour change. So one thing that is really needed to know is what versions of these programs you are using.

Cheers: Allan

Hi Allan
I think that issue was only to do with the compatibility between LR and the version of ACR associated with PS if you wanted to pass RAW adjustments between the two. In the OP's case Sandy is essentially exporting from LR into PS so rendering into TIFF or JPEG, not RAW. I don't think any colour shift should result other than a possible clipping of highly saturated blues/cyans caused by converting into sRGB.
Cheers
Tim