The Beginning or End of Photography

[lukaswerth]

I haven't seen the original videos, but the replies seem to give me an idea about the topic which I find interesting.
To be honest, sometimes it looks to me as if we will see some time ahead the end of photography as an expressive medium in its own right. Perhaps what we witness in these is a final blossoming, after which the idea to rest before and watch and appreciate a still picture is just not something we will still be doing. Perhaps it is like this: we get so many stimuli, so many distractions the day over, just when we look on our computer/mobile/tablet screens that a still picture is just not going to make it through the general noise level. Well, I suspect our constant looking at screens may itself confine the quality of what we are looking at to some digital sample of what otherwise might be there (downsizing files for the internet!). How easy is it to put short movie clips of something, that is, some moving picture online or elsewhere instead of a still picture which does just that, sits still, has no possibilities of noise or flashing or other movement to draw our attention to it - which in this respect is confined to the same possibilities as a painting? I see photo-frames with displaying constantly changing digital files sold everywhere, and when I move through Lahore at night - a vibrant city not known, however, for extreme urban sophistication and advance - I see so many advertizing posters showing movie clips. In fact, I can make movies with my camera the next minute - what holds me back?
Other cultural techniques and media also change - who still draws sketches in these days? Who plays house music? Who writes letters, stylish, taking care of elegant hand-writing? Who writes, who still reads books? Which roles play books/novels, plays theater, concerts, operas still in our lives?
By another token, what is the creativity invested in these days into computer games? If you are used to killing your time by shooting aliens or ruling over virtual worlds, how much place do you still give to a still picture?
My honest answer to all this is: I don't know, but I don't always like to get a rhythm imposed on me - which happens when I watch a movie, be it even a small clip, and would happen if I would play computer-games - but doesn't when I read a book or watch a picture - and not, and this is a good thing, if I surf the net, at least not if I don't let it happen.

Lukas

[Shadowman]

I haven't seen the original videos, but the replies seem to give me an idea about the topic which I find interesting.
To be honest, sometimes it looks to me as if we will see some time ahead the end of photography as an expressive medium in its own right. Perhaps what we witness in these is a final blossoming, after which the idea to rest before and watch and appreciate a still picture is just not something we will still be doing. Perhaps it is like this: we get so many stimuli, so many distractions the day over, just when we look on our computer/mobile/tablet screens that a still picture is just not going to make it through the general noise level. Well, I suspect our constant looking at screens may itself confine the quality of what we are looking at to some digital sample of what otherwise might be there (downsizing files for the internet!). How easy is it to put short movie clips of something, that is, some moving picture online or elsewhere instead of a still picture which does just that, sits still, has no possibilities of noise or flashing or other movement to draw our attention to it - which in this respect is confined to the same possibilities as a painting? I see photo-frames with displaying constantly changing digital files sold everywhere, and when I move through Lahore at night - a vibrant city not known, however, for extreme urban sophistication and advance - I see so many advertizing posters showing movie clips. In fact, I can make movies with my camera the next minute - what holds me back?
Other cultural techniques and media also change - who still draws sketches in these days? Who plays house music? Who writes letters, stylish, taking care of elegant hand-writing? Who writes, who still reads books? Which roles play books/novels, plays theater, concerts, operas still in our lives?
By another token, what is the creativity invested in these days into computer games? If you are used to killing your time by shooting aliens or ruling over virtual worlds, how much place do you still give to a still picture?
My honest answer to all this is: I don't know, but I don't always like to get a rhythm imposed on me - which happens when I watch a movie, be it even a small clip, and would happen if I would play computer-games - but doesn't when I read a book or watch a picture - and not, and this is a good thing, if I surf the net, at least not if I don't let it happen.

Lukas

Hi Lukas,

For now, I think even the most avid gamer/music lover still enjoy having a poster or screen saver of their favorite entertainment of choice. Eventually the hologram will be sufficient however some type of device, whether it is a still or video camera will have to capture the image. I replied in an Cambridge in Colour interview years ago that, the future of photography would probably give way to video and eventually some other form of media, however I think now that there will always be a group that are still fascinated by the still image.

[dabhand]

One thing Apple have really mastered is combining two of the most important business maxims - 1. Don't wildly exceed what people need (as opposed to want) and 2. It's always the most effortless experience which wins in the end.

That is not the case in camera technology at the moment; In the main it is an 'arms race' of features, functions and megapixels crammed into ever decreasing body sizes. This may be fine, if not really useful, when one has grown with the technology over the years, but it does create an issue for new entrants, especially those who are used to the simple operation of a mobile phone camera.

Then there is the learning curve associated with 'real' photography, which whilst technology has changed dramatically over the past years, it still conforms to 'rules', terminologies (f stops, dof, iso, grain, noise, sooc etc etc ) and idealism regarding images of decades ago.

Those two combined do not result in an effortless experience and are totally at odds with the expectation of immediacy, sharing and 'liking' of images by most of today's 'photographers' and a lack of the finer points of presentation by their audience - after all, it's just a case of click on attachment, look at image, go ahhh, reply with LOL, ROFL and delete.

In the commercial world, quality photography has probably peaked, in the amateur world I believe it is in decline given the effort required and lack of expectation of an image by the consumer. Lukas (above) outlined a whole raft of activities which were once important to society, activities which took time and effort to master and appreciate, and which are now relegated to the 'back waters'.

Will quality photography go that way ? Unless camera manufacturers cease the technology race and direct it towards user experience, I believe so.

[Shadowman]

I think the learning curve for cellphone users (who want to maximize the potential of their cameras) is still steep. I have a friend who's an iphone user and who I'll share my images with and she frequently asks me how to achieve some effect I can easily capture with my DSLR. I had to quickly learn the specifications of her phone before I could let her know whether or not she could do the same with her phone. Many times she could not capture the effect, such as bokeh, without as you say some sort of attachment or app/ But she was willing to learn more about photography and did not see her phone as an all-in-one device. Incidentally, she has Photoshop on her phone but it only provides the basic editing functions.

[dabhand]

I think the learning curve for cellphone users (who want to maximize the potential of their cameras) is still steep. I have a friend who's an iphone user and who I'll share my images with and she frequently asks me how to achieve some effect I can easily capture with my DSLR. I had to quickly learn the specifications of her phone before I could let her know whether or not she could do the same with her phone. Many times she could not capture the effect, such as bokeh, without as you say some sort of attachment or app/ But she was willing to learn more about photography and did not see her phone as an all-in-one device. Incidentally, she has Photoshop on her phone but it only provides the basic editing functions.

For sure John, those who want and are willing to make the effort will, but could your friend or your average 'newbie' have learnt your DSLR as fast as you learnt the phone ? I also agree with your point above 'there will always be a group that are still fascinated by the still image' but I believe that the number interested in creating them will be in serious decline within a generation.

[Shadowman]

For sure John, those who want and are willing to make the effort will, but could your friend or your average 'newbie' have learnt your DSLR as fast as you learnt the phone ? I also agree with your point above 'there will always be a group that are still fascinated by the still image' but I believe that the number interested in creating them will be in serious decline within a generation.

Steve,

I think if I gave her my DSLR she would at least try to learn the functions, but if there are shortcuts she would definitely go the easier route.

[krfessl]

I have a 4s, and an iPad 3 (retina)... I have never made/taken a photo with the iPad, and only use the iPhone for photos of whiteboards after a system "architecture" session at work (usually at a client)... Or a situation/event I happen on...and, ok a wine label or food dish I want to remember (I do take a d610 or d7k when I travel for pleasure/vacation, but not for every day job travel).
I do pull down many of the iPad photo tools to play with them (sort of as John suggests)... But not on photos taken with idevices.
The iPad retina is one of the best tool going though for showing photos loaded from my cameras though...

IMHO, This is the age of Social Media and it's no surprise that snaps and posting to one of the social media sites is what's driving a change in behavior ... Look at me gratifications and look at what I'm doing coolness abounds (until they find out that prospective employers look at their Facebook pages to find out about who they might be hiring and see drunken party pics) :-).

In some sense this reminds me of the move to color and then to digital from B&W and all manual (ok, in camera metering was ok too) when many of us thought it was THE purist requirement, and the ONLY way to go if you were serious about the art and the craft. I remember some of those discussions well, as I imagine you may...

Growing up with film, darkrooms, etc, it was the process of making the photo... The whole lifecycle, that I fell in love with... Vision to print in my hands... But I did also buy that eras best snapshot tool, the Polaroid sx70, for parties mostly, and instantly handing a bunch of friends a snap of the memory (we still have boxes full of 70s/early 80s shots)... To me it's the same thing... Did I dump my F2s??? Nope... But we did have fun with Popsicle sticks and Polaroids manipulating the gel for affect...

I laugh when I see a flock of people all taking shots with their iPhones, even while I stand there with a really heavy d610 (by choice) taking pictures too (yeah, but in raw & fine)... Usually I get people asking about the camera, and often saying they wish they had one, but all they have is the ...(and hold up their device sheepishly)... Not everything is about making a photo, sometimes it's just taking a photo, but I wouldn't not be caught dead posting a cutsie snapshot on a social collaboration site (not including forums like this) despite the fact that I work for a major social collaboration tools company...but it's just that work that has me delineate the why and the how... Never shoot any video either, I think my fingers would burn off if I ever used my DSLRs for video!! :-). I'm still a still guy after all ...

[Shadowman]

I have a 4s, and an iPad 3 (retina)... I have never made/taken a photo with the iPad, and only use the iPhone for photos of whiteboards after a system "architecture" session at work (usually at a client)... Or a situation/event I happen on...and, ok a wine label or food dish I want to remember (I do take a d610 or d7k when I travel for pleasure/vacation, but not for every day job travel).
I do pull down many of the iPad photo tools to play with them (sort of as John suggests)... But not on photos taken with idevices.
The iPad retina is one of the best tool going though for showing photos loaded from my cameras though...

IMHO, This is the age of Social Media and it's no surprise that snaps and posting to one of the social media sites is what's driving a change in behavior ... Look at me gratifications and look at what I'm doing coolness abounds (until they find out that prospective employers look at their Facebook pages to find out about who they might be hiring and see drunken party pics) :-).

In some sense this reminds me of the move to color and then to digital from B&W and all manual (ok, in camera metering was ok too) when many of us thought it was THE purist requirement, and the ONLY way to go if you were serious about the art and the craft. I remember some of those discussions well, as I imagine you may...

Growing up with film, darkrooms, etc, it was the process of making the photo... The whole lifecycle, that I fell in love with... Vision to print in my hands... But I did also buy that eras best snapshot tool, the Polaroid sx70, for parties mostly, and instantly handing a bunch of friends a snap of the memory (we still have boxes full of 70s/early 80s shots)... To me it's the same thing... Did I dump my F2s??? Nope... But we did have fun with Popsicle sticks and Polaroids manipulating the gel for affect...

I laugh when I see a flock of people all taking shots with their iPhones, even while I stand there with a really heavy d610 (by choice) taking pictures too (yeah, but in raw & fine)... Usually I get people asking about the camera, and often saying they wish they had one, but all they have is the ...(and hold up their device sheepishly)... Not everything is about making a photo, sometimes it's just taking a photo, but I wouldn't not be caught dead posting a cutsie snapshot on a social collaboration site (not including forums like this) despite the fact that I work for a major social collaboration tools company...but it's just that work that has me delineate the why and the how... Never shoot any video either, I think my fingers would burn off if I ever used my DSLRs for video!! :-). I'm still a still guy after all ...

Keith,

You bring up a lot of good points, one of which is What do we really need with all the advanced technology? Do we really need a mobile phone, do we really need a still camera or video camera? What is the underlying motivation for having anything? It should be personal whatever it is that makes us desire new technology and we should try to utilize that technology to its fullest capabilities.

[lukaswerth]

With regard to photography and technological advance, a few personal remarks: I am actually a latecomer to digital with regard to my expressive photography. I have long used, and still do or want to, large format cameras (my favorite being my 8x10), self-made pinhole cameras and the like, and I maintain that these instruments allow me a personal quality I am struggling to get with my beautiful DLSR. I had decided to get myself a high-end camera such as I could afford because I wanted to do linear color images (as opposed to non-linear from a monochrome neg and colors introduced by oneself), and here in Pakistan you can't get a decent development any more.
Before that, a few years back, I was seriously pondering to learn coating my own emulsions, going as primitive as I can. I just didn't do it for lack of time, because I shifted my residence to another continent... why am I telling this? Because I harbor in my heart of hearts a big distrust against technical progress seen as a end in itself, which means for me a potentially creative medium like photography seen as just another consumer activity. My camera (Nikon d800e) is really a wonderful tool, but if I don't check myself, I am getting lost in pondering its technical possibilities. People write books about using it, and others load them on their smartphones and go out taking pictures according to them. The camera allows for a wonderful image quality, but for me that can always ever be a means, not an end in itself. For me a picture needs to have a relevance, needs to tell something to the viewer, challenge her/him perhaps. It needs this for me also, and this is what I work on.
I ever to often get the feeling that so many of us do what the industry tells us to do, and even if we try to be expressive ourselves, we really derive our aesthetics from the ubiquitous commercial advertising. What have I seen lately on these pages? David Hill method, I believe - what trendy rubbish! (personal remarks, remember!)
Photography at its best makes a statement about the world which matters, situates itself in a discourse or even creates one, it is a photographers frozen view which invites an answer from the recipient, a reflective answer which makes use of her or his view on reality, challenges it, and in this sense makes this world richer. It will, I think, live as an expressive medium as long as it is able to do that - or its practitioners, rather.

[krfessl]

Keith,

You bring up a lot of good points, one of which is What do we really need with all the advanced technology? Do we really need a mobile phone, do we really need a still camera or video camera? What is the underlying motivation for having anything? It should be personal whatever it is that makes us desire new technology and we should try to utilize that technology to its fullest capabilities.

Well, John! I'm a technologist at heart (aka gadget guy) and i agonize on what I buy but I do end-up buying toys (see the running dialog on my AB saga on the Studio lighting Getting Started Thread)...

I don't chastise anyone's technology choices, though... Ya get what you can afford, and (I think) what makes you feel comfortable using it... It's the ubiquity of the technology at (relatively) low cost, and the duality of purpose that have gotten us to the point where everyone is a "photo-trapper"....

Much as I love the big DSLR hw (all mine for instance have the Nikon battery grips added) I FORTUNATELY cannot text from it, or attach my latest shot of my wife mugging at the camera for the world to appreciate (YET, and I hope never, but I suspect there are functions coming at us to do just this)... So, point is, again IMHO, that it's the convergence of "device" ( not camera) that is the culprit in the evolution... I may be in the minority, but I carry a ton of Sh-t with me every day... Laptop, iPad, iPhone, 4-5 pouches of connections, extension cord, etc, etc and use 2 briefcases to do so (I get a raft of crap from colleagues, until they need to borrow something too). Then when I have my photo gear, add a stuffed Tamrac Expedition 6X bag ... :-)... I like having the right tool for the job (my workshop is a site to see too), but, the point is that it's what you become used to, adept at... I'd never put one of the new add-on lenses on my iPhone, and call it a camera, and leave the "real" gear home... But for the MILLIONS who do, aside from them stepping in front of me when I do want a vacation snapshot, I think it's not the end of, but just another evolution of the domain...

[Shadowman]

Well, John! I'm a technologist at heart (aka gadget guy) and i agonize on what I buy but I do end-up buying toys (see the running dialog on my AB saga on the Studio lighting Getting Started Thread)...

I don't chastise anyone's technology choices, though... Ya get what you can afford, and (I think) what makes you feel comfortable using it... It's the ubiquity of the technology at (relatively) low cost, and the duality of purpose that have gotten us to the point where everyone is a "photo-trapper"....

Much as I love the big DSLR hw (all mine for instance have the Nikon battery grips added) I FORTUNATELY cannot text from it, or attach my latest shot of my wife mugging at the camera for the world to appreciate (YET, and I hope never, but I suspect there are functions coming at us to do just this)... So, point is, again IMHO, that it's the convergence of "device" ( not camera) that is the culprit in the evolution... I may be in the minority, but I carry a ton of Sh-t with me every day... Laptop, iPad, iPhone, 4-5 pouches of connections, extension cord, etc, etc and use 2 briefcases to do so (I get a raft of crap from colleagues, until they need to borrow something too). Then when I have my photo gear, add a stuffed Tamrac Expedition 6X bag ... :-)... I like having the right tool for the job (my workshop is a site to see too), but, the point is that it's what you become used to, adept at... I'd never put one of the new add-on lenses on my iPhone, and call it a camera, and leave the "real" gear home... But for the MILLIONS who do, aside from them stepping in front of me when I do want a vacation snapshot, I think it's not the end of, but just another evolution of the domain...

For years I refused to get a cellphone as I didn't want to be that accessible to others all the time, but I grew tired of hearing my colleagues complain when they couldn't locate me in an airport or convention hall so I eventually purchased a tracfone. The phone has a measly 1mpx camera, mp3 player, video and a few other fun items. I rarely use the camera, never bothered setting up the mp3 player, I have a separate one that works rather nicely, and would use the video if ever needed. So as I said the need should be personal.

[krfessl]

For years I refused to get a cellphone as I didn't want to be that accessible to others all the time, but I grew tired of hearing my colleagues complain when they couldn't locate me in an airport or convention hall so I eventually purchased a tracfone. The phone has a measly 1mpx camera, mp3 player, video and a few other fun items. I rarely use the camera, never bothered setting up the mp3 player, I have a separate one that works rather nicely, and would use the video if ever needed. So as I said the need should be personal.

John, I'm at the other end of the spectrum with dozens of apps on my iPhone, (and hundreds on my iPad, including many of my photo-related manuals/ref books)... ONE upgraded photo app (photoPro) on the iPhone as it's much better than the iPhoto app... BUT, still used only for wine labels, whiteboard design session captures and the occasional dinner plate (especially at sushi bars)... Scanning (bar codes, papers/receipts), magnifying and an occasional snap in a bar are also reasons I'll use the camera/lens functions in the iPhone...
Phenomenal tool, but not a camera for PHOTOGRAPHS, IMHO