Learning Landscapes - Another try at a mountain scene

[Brownbear]

For my learning landscapes project I've decided to focus on improving my compositions and use of light. As a reminder I'm just learning (ie; these landscape images will not be keepers) so no need to post process these to improve but I would surely appreciate feedback on my composition and use of light to help me improve on my next try.

I realize I said I would give up on the mountain thing but here is one more try...

Wide angle lens Aperture 7 SS 320 ISO 160 No exposure compensation. Hand held for the composition I wanted, and a large aperture simply because I couldn't manage the exposure of the scene with a small aperture.

I focused on the clouds in the water in the immediate foreground. (the bottom is cropped off (resulting in a centered composition) because the water was almost jet black and trying to lighten it with a levels layer in Photoshop or selective lightening the exposure in Lightroom didn't work out)

My reasoning...

Composition - Of interest are the beautiful mountains set off by the boats and the water. The sky holds interest because of the clouds as does the water because of the reflection of the clouds. So each segment has something of interest and the clouds in the sky and their reflections in the water. The boats and their reflections should lead the viewers eye to the mountains... (apologies for the haze on the mountains)

I suspect that their was something about the left side of the scene that I did not find attractive that I excluded from the scene... ie; I can see that the start of the composition on the left hand side seems rather abrupt.

Light - The boats and mountains on the left side are front lit by the sun, and the mountains on the horizon are side lit by the sun, plus the water is beautifully it. Plus the light should lead your eye to the mountains . I can see that the boat in the immediate front is bright and draws the eye - how could I work around this the next time I try this shot, if I do?

I also tried this scene in a vertical composition but I couldn't expose properly for the water in the foreground. I also tried a shot of the other side but it was back-lit and I couldn't expose for it properly no matter how hard I tried.. ie; clipped boats and black mountains and I couldn't figure it out in aperture priority or manual mode





Aside ... I've decided that I adore the landscape images of Bruce Dale for the beautiful and natural scenes, and gorgeous colour and light. (And also Galen Rowell for the same reasons, although I don't think he is a master photographer)... I am also very fond of the mountain landscapes of Ansel Adams, and especially Michael Kenna even though they are in B&W, I adore the beautiful light and use of lines. All which I will review.

In summary I would appreciate feedback on my composition and use of the existing light. And if I should try photographing this scene again, and if yes tips on how I can do a better job of it next time around would be appreciated.

Thank you.

[Digital]

Christina, what time of day was this scene shot?



Bruce

[Brownbear]

Hi Bruce,

Around 3pm, about 1 1/2 hours before sunset. If I try this scene again I know the light will be nicer at sunset or sunrise but for this shot I wanted to keep it simple. However, if the light is really poor I do need to know for my next try. Thank you.

Christina, what time of day was this scene shot?



Bruce

[Digital]

Christina, in photography the light can make a photo or not. IMHO the light in this pic could have been better.


Bruce

[Mike Buckley]

You mentioned that you used a wide angle lens. What is the focal length?

[Brownbear]

Hi Mike,

10mm

Bruce.. thank you appreciated.

You mentioned that you used a wide angle lens. What is the focal length?

[Shadowman]

First off, I wouldn't classify this as a mountain scene, sure there is a mountain in the background but it is more of a backdrop than anything else. You have a few subjects you could concentrate on in this image, and you have stated that the reflection of the clouds at least caught your attention. The other subject that could be explored are the boats anchored along the shore, you've given them as much emphasis as you have the clouds and more so than the mountains. I think it's worth returning to this scene, choose the same time as before and perhaps later in the day near sunset. One thing I especially like about this scene is the clarity and deep color of the water. And don't give up on the mountain thing, you just haven't met one you really like.

[Brownbear]

Thank you for the feedback John... Great points.

One of the things I am hoping to learn from this image specific to the composition is if each segment (1/3) works... ie; sky has interest because of the clouds, and the water has interest because of the clouds and colour, and the middle segment has interest because of mountains on the side (and the boats) which you are led to look at the mountains in the background. So in terms of composition this should work but doesn't... Is that because of the light or simply because the scene is too busy, as all my landscapes seem to be. Or perhaps it is just that the light was not nice enough?

ie; this was another try at a bigger picture landscape instead of one simple viewpoint and I would like to learn why not.

[Digital]

Christina, what was your main subject in this photo, and what was the supporting elements?


Bruce

[Brownbear]

The main subject is the vista of the mountains and boats along the side, which also includes the mountains on the horizon but truly it is the beauty of the entire scene.

The supporting elements are the sky and the water which add to the beauty of the scene, ie; extra special because of the reflections of the boats in the water and the clouds in the water.

Normally I would focus on the main subject (ie a bird, bug or animal) but here I focused on the reflections of the clouds in the water a few feet in front of me to achieve sharp focus throughout the image, in which case I say the main subject is the beautiful clouds reflected so magically in the blue water! So you see.. the trouble with landscapes

Christina, what was your main subject in this photo, and what was the supporting elements?


Bruce

[Shadowman]

Thank you for the feedback John... Great points.

One of the things I am hoping to learn from this image specific to the composition is if each segment (1/3) works... ie; sky has interest because of the clouds, and the water has interest because of the clouds and colour, and the middle segment has interest because of mountains on the side (and the boats) which you are led to look at the mountains in the background. So in terms of composition this should work but doesn't... Is that because of the light or simply because the scene is too busy, as all my landscapes seem to be. Or perhaps it is just that the light was not nice enough?

ie; this was another try at a bigger picture landscape instead of one simple viewpoint and I would like to learn why not.

Christina,

With an image like this there is only so much you can control and light is one that you have only some control. You can expose for the scene but you can't control direction of light, at least not physically. You can wait until it changes but that might take long hours so you have to work with what you have and return another day if time is limited.

Your composition is fine with this image and the only choice you had was to center the horizon if you wanted to capture the reflections of the clouds and also have the source of the reflections in the same image. Could you have gotten away with eliminating the sky, sure but you'd end up cropping the slope of the mountain and that would change the current dynamic you have going.

Keep this image in your collection, try something different next time or try to improve on this scene. Just keep working the scene until you've exhausted all possibilities.

[Mike Buckley]

I'm going to stay out of the discussion about composition at least until your discussion with Bruce has run its course, as I can tell by his comments and questions that he is going in the same direction that I would.

[Mike Buckley]

You mentioned that the aperture is really large. Apertures are somewhat relative to the focal length. An aperture setting of f/7 when using a 10mm focal length is not at all large. In fact, that aperture might actually be in the sweet spot of sharpness for your lens, though I wouldn't know for sure. I would imagine that f/8 at the very least would be there and f/7 is not even a half-stop different.

As for not being able to expose at a smaller aperture, let's get back to the basics: for every stop that your aperture became smaller, you could have reduced your shutter speed by one stop to achieve the exact same exposure. If you had been using aperture priority, the shutter speed would have automatically been changed.

Why did you focus on the reflection of the clouds? Once I learn about that, I'll follow up about an important detail relative to reflections.

[Digital]

I'm going to stay out of the discussion about composition at least until your discussion with Bruce has run its course, as I can tell by his comments and questions that he is going in the same direction that I would.

Mike, I defer to your opinions about the composition.


Bruce

[Brownbear]

I will read up on the relationship between apertures and focal length. The sharpest aperture seems to be around F8 (quick experiments with my lens)

When I was speaking of not being able to expose at a smaller aperture I was referring to a scene on the other side of this scene. I began with aperture priority, F22, live view, mirror-up, remote release, ISO 100 and no matter what aperture I tried I had clipping in the highlights and the shadows... So next I tried manual mode and although I managed a little less clipping it was still prevalent, so I gave up on that view... (Backlit Mountains, white sail boat, dark water with the reflection of the sailboat in the water)

So then I changed to the other side of the scene, the one in this image. And here I wanted a low point of view (lower then my tripod would allow) so I switched to handheld. I can't remember how I ended up using a larger aperture only that it was a wee bit of a challenge not to clip the white boats.

I focused on the reflection of the clouds because the were just a few feet in front of me (my foreground) figuring if I focused on the clouds everything would be in sharp focus beyond the first cloud.

You mentioned that the aperture is really large. Apertures are somewhat relative to the focal length. An aperture setting of f/7 when using a 10mm focal length is not at all large. In fact, that aperture might actually be in the sweet spot of sharpness for your lens, though I wouldn't know for sure. I would imagine that f/8 at the very least would be there and f/7 is not even a half-stop different.

As for not being able to expose at a smaller aperture, let's get back to the basics: for every stop that your aperture became smaller, you could have reduced your shutter speed by one stop to achieve the exact same exposure. If you had been using aperture priority, the shutter speed would have automatically been changed.

Why did you focus on the reflection of the clouds? Once I learn about that, I'll follow up about an important detail relative to reflections.

[Karm Redland]

Hi Christina. I also struggle with this type of scene. My suggestion is to remove some area from the left, right, foreground and top. Place where the two sets of hills meet on the bottom and right bars of your crop overlay (you know, the one that divides the image into thirds). I think this will give your image a stronger focus.

karm

[Mike Buckley]

When I was speaking of not being able to expose at a smaller aperture I was referring to a scene on the other side of this scene. I began with aperture priority, F22, live view, mirror-up, remote release, ISO 100 and no matter what aperture I tried I had clipping in the highlights and the shadows

That's understandable. However, that has nothing to do with the aperture setting and should not have influenced your choice of aperture in any photo that you made thereafter.

The problem is that the scene had dark and light tones that went beyond the capabilities of your sensor to capture all of them. When that happens, use your exposure compensation to keep the brightest tones so they do not extend beyond the right side of the histogram. Then live with whatever that does to your darkest tones. Either that or put the camera away and enjoy the scene.

[FrankMi]

Hi Christina, at this point you have more than enough knowledgeable answers coming at you so I'll sit by the sidelines and cheer you on!

[Brownbear]

Hi Mike,

I forgot to say that I tried something like -4 exposure compensation and that didn't work either, so that is why I tried to see if I could figure out something different to outsmart my camera. I also tried several different angles. I could see the histogram and see that it was beyond the dynamic range but honestly to me the scene didn't look that bright.

If I purchased a ND filter is there just a simple one ie; recommended stops that would work on scenes with bright skies and dark mountains/hillsides in general? ie; one all purpose number?

That's understandable. However, that has nothing to do with the aperture setting and should not have influenced your choice of aperture in any photo that you made thereafter.

The problem is that the scene had dark and light tones that went beyond the capabilities of your sensor to capture all of them. When that happens, use your exposure compensation to keep the brightest tones so they do not extend beyond the right side of the histogram. Then live with whatever that does to your darkest tones. Either that or put the camera away and enjoy the scene.

[Brownbear]

Thank you. Appreciated.

Hi Christina, at this point you have more than enough knowledgeable answers coming at you so I'll sit by the sidelines and cheer you on!