Learning Landscapes - Another try at a mountain scene

[Brownbear]

Thank you to David, Richard, Binnur and Andre for your additional comments and tips.

Andre, when I photographed this scene or another version I will try it at sunrise or sunset as I know the lighting is far more beautiful. This was just an exercise in landscape composition for me using the existing lighting as best as I could. I will try your white balance setting but I have my camera set to neutral for everything because I'm shooting raw and my understanding is that this is the best way for me to be able to see clipping in the histogram, ie; to allow me to best correct it on the spot.

Richard, I find it interesting that you darkened the water to bring out the clouds in the very water that I selectively lightened in post processing because I thought it was too dark. I like your edit and it is very helpful for me to see and learn from. Thank you for taking the time. Thank you also for sharing some information about P mode. I'm most comfortable with aperture priority and manual mode (simplest to me) and more often than not manage my exposures just fine so the thought of trying a new mode while trying to learn how to photograph landscapes which includes several new things (for me) such as live view, using a tripod and mirror up mode, and perhaps bracketing for different exposures, different lighting and a different way of thinking of focal points, and the best use of my lens is a handful.

Thank you to everyone for your helpful comments and advice. I'm pleased that what I saw as leading lines were also seen by others. In this image I like the reflections of the clouds in the water and I will look for more of these opportunities. I am also beginning to see why simpler landscapes scenes are usually more effective and that the haze on the mountains detracts from the beauty of the scene.

Learning to photograph landscapes is challenging for me because it involves a lot of new things to explore and learn more about. Therefore my posts will be less frequent but be assured that I am working on them. Not to mention the challenge of weather, nice light and finding haze free mountains.

Thank you to all.

[Brownbear]

This is what I have to say.... i like it

Thank you Nandakumar. Appreciated.

[bnnrcn]

There are two types of GND filters which are hard and soft. A soft GND filter has got more tolerance in such difficult scenes.

To clarify more about ND filters, if you don't use the correct exposure time when using an ND filter,it makes your whole picture dark and this is not the goal of an ND filter at all.Whatever stop ND you use, you have to make exposure time longer according to the stop number of ND.There are calculation tables for that or you can calculate it if you know the logic behind it.So, GND filters and ND filters are very different from each other.If I said something wrong ,will experts please correct me. I'm new in photography but I like filters and I have tried some of them already

Correct. Using a graduated neutral density filter to control the sky could work reasonably well with this scene, especially if the area that you want to control is above the highest part of the horizon. The main problem with using such a filter in a mountainous area is that the horizon is not flat. So, when you use it to darken a part of the sky that is near the lowest part of the horizon, you also darken the land that is higher.

I don't know if the effect would have been better at sunrise and sunset, as I'm having difficulty thinking that through.

[Mike Buckley]

Not to mention the challenge of...finding haze free mountains.

It's really easy to find them. Finding them in the distance is another matter.

Seriously though, about thirty years ago I was talking to a truck driver who complained about the constant haze. That's because he remembered that thirty years earlier he could usually see the mountains on the opposite side of the huge valley running through the middle of California (I can't remember its name).

[Mike Buckley]

If I said something wrong ,will experts please correct me.

You've got it correct, though I don't consider myself an expert user. The one thing that might be helpful to add is that a polarizer acts as about a 1 1/2 to 2-stop neutral density filter.

[Brownbear]

And getting close to them is yet another matter but for sure I will do just that when the weather warms up and the days are longer.

Yes, haze is new to me having recently moved back to city living. I am hopeful that one day that everyone in the world will will be united on preserving our environment. For now I will see if I can find a portable zip-line.

It's really easy to find them. Finding them in the distance is another matter.

Seriously though, about thirty years ago I was talking to a truck driver who complained about the constant haze. That's because he remembered that thirty years earlier he could usually see the mountains on the opposite side of the huge valley running through the middle of California (I can't remember its name).

[ajohnw]

For my learning landscapes project I've decided to focus on improving my compositions and use of light. As a reminder I'm just learning (ie; these landscape images will not be keepers) so no need to post process these to improve but I would surely appreciate feedback on my composition and use of light to help me improve on my next try.

I realize I said I would give up on the mountain thing but here is one more try...

Wide angle lens Aperture 7 SS 320 ISO 160 No exposure compensation. Hand held for the composition I wanted, and a large aperture simply because I couldn't manage the exposure of the scene with a small aperture.

I focused on the clouds in the water in the immediate foreground. (the bottom is cropped off (resulting in a centered composition) because the water was almost jet black and trying to lighten it with a levels layer in Photoshop or selective lightening the exposure in Lightroom didn't work out)

My reasoning...

Composition - Of interest are the beautiful mountains set off by the boats and the water. The sky holds interest because of the clouds as does the water because of the reflection of the clouds. So each segment has something of interest and the clouds in the sky and their reflections in the water. The boats and their reflections should lead the viewers eye to the mountains... (apologies for the haze on the mountains)

I suspect that their was something about the left side of the scene that I did not find attractive that I excluded from the scene... ie; I can see that the start of the composition on the left hand side seems rather abrupt.

Light - The boats and mountains on the left side are front lit by the sun, and the mountains on the horizon are side lit by the sun, plus the water is beautifully it. Plus the light should lead your eye to the mountains . I can see that the boat in the immediate front is bright and draws the eye - how could I work around this the next time I try this shot, if I do?

I also tried this scene in a vertical composition but I couldn't expose properly for the water in the foreground. I also tried a shot of the other side but it was back-lit and I couldn't expose for it properly no matter how hard I tried.. ie; clipped boats and black mountains and I couldn't figure it out in aperture priority or manual mode





Aside ... I've decided that I adore the landscape images of Bruce Dale for the beautiful and natural scenes, and gorgeous colour and light. (And also Galen Rowell for the same reasons, although I don't think he is a master photographer)... I am also very fond of the mountain landscapes of Ansel Adams, and especially Michael Kenna even though they are in B&W, I adore the beautiful light and use of lines. All which I will review.

In summary I would appreciate feedback on my composition and use of the existing light. And if I should try photographing this scene again, and if yes tips on how I can do a better job of it next time around would be appreciated.

Thank you.

Switching off and just opening the shot as I always try to do I feel you have a leading line that you don't want - the land and the boats, spoiled by the prominence of the 1st boat. It's a strong feature. My eye went straight to the misty end. Cloud reflections came later after the boats.

I suspect you were right to try portrait. That could have avoided the 1st boat. The others are "further away" less noticeable/less distinct. Raising the misty mountains to some where around the top 1/3 line would be another alternative. That would take out cloud leaving more reflections. This might mean cropping the shot rather than trying to shoot it directly. I don't think the other way round - more clouds less reflections could work at all but it might.

Exposure - it's often best to keep the highlights especially clouds. Blowing out less distinct boats doesn't matter within reason. This will often leave other parts rather dark but you may be surprised what the shadow recovery in you PP software can do. It's best to get a fair idea about that aspect as the amount of detail buried in the dark end that can easily be recovered varies between different cameras. I had some comments elsewhere when playing with a M 4/3 Olympus Pen - your lucky to get that many stops out of it. Many people don't really bother to find out.

Most people would augment the cloud reflections. There is a bit of a problem in this shot - ripples in the water show in the clouds reflections. If you just bring up the clouds these will be brought up as well. Fast shutter speed / slow - not at all sure. Just remember that small low height tripods do not have to be as heavily built as "proper" ones. The one I have used at times is a version of ebay 280818368120. It has a quick release plate of a sort - round, ball head and leg clamp. 150mm over all collapsed and 220mm extended. Jessops still do a simplified version of it A bit small really but there are others that can be used up say about 1m height. Just find one with a reasonably large tube diameter and ideally a pan and tilt head or don't use the last extension on the legs.

John
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[bnnrcn]

Thank you Mike,I know that a polariser acts like a 2 stop ND in a way by giving 2 stop longer exposure time and in addition it reduces harsh unwanted glare in the water and on the foliage and it also reduces the contrast between land and sky.In CIC's tutorials,ıt says a polariser is a very useful tool for landscape shooters and it is the only filter that its effect can't be achieved with PP .That's why a polariser filter and 2 stop ND filter differ from each other.I hope I will manage to take good pictures with a polariser one day.'Reading and learning' is something,'experimenting' is another thing

You've got it correct, though I don't consider myself an expert user. The one thing that might be helpful to add is that a polarizer acts as about a 1 1/2 to 2-stop neutral density filter.

[Brownbear]

John, Thank you for your reply and helpful points and tips. The night before I photographed this scene I remember reading up on light and a recommendation to look for the brightest points in a scene that will draw the eye. I did analysis the scene for light but for some reason I didn't clue into the brightness of the boat while composing the scene, and as soon as I uploaded the images I saw the bright boat. For sure the next time around I'm sure I will clue in to similar bright objects.

The portrait images didn't work out either... Just a strip of mountain on the top and the rest of the image was water.

Similarity I will keep the thought in the back of my mind that shadows can be lifted a little bit.

Also thank you for the info on the tripod and for pointing out the ripples in the clouds. I missed that and for future images a calm lake would serve much better for capturing reflections of clouds.

Truly appreciated.

[Mike Buckley]

Lakes are far more likely to be calm at sunrise than sunset.

[Dusty]

Sorry have to say Christina, this image is not a 'Mountain Scene'.
My eye is drawn straight to the boats to the left of the image and even more so with the mast strutting into the sky from the first boat. There is nothing in the foreground to anchor the image, no subject, a rock or something similar to lead you into the image. Lines in a landscape are important when done correctly but I don't see that in your image. As for the mountains well you can see them in the distance but there is no form or shape to them, no structure to tell us what shape they are and no shadows to see. This is not me having a go at you as you know me better than to pick faults with someones else's image when they are learning. Take on board all the good points that the other posters have given you but sometimes take a chance on a setting and go for it you have nothing to lose. There are times when you can get to emerged in the PP that you get lost and confused with your image and try and get something better when a simple tweak here and there is all you need.
Dave.

[Brownbear]

Hi Dave,

I was rather hopeful that this image would disappear into Never Never Land but all the same thank you for your feedback and advice. I agree that it is not a mountain scene and I likely should've named it another attempt at a Grand Vista. It truly is a beautiful place and another example of how I can't seem to capture what I see.

At the time I was thinking of the reflection of the clouds in the water as the foreground; the clouds in the sky as leading lines leading to the mountains in the distance, and the hillside and boats as leading lines leading to the mountains. At the time it didn't dawn on me that the bright boats and masts would dominate the scene.

Surely the mountains in the background have shape an structure - but are just too soft and bleh because of the haze and uninteresting light.

I'm reviewing landscape images of photographers I admire and studying landscape compositions. I'm also trying to visualize landscapes in everything I see, practicing with my camera and as soon as the weather improves I will be heading out to try again - likely for a simpler scene with a strong subject made interesting by the light, instead of a beautiful grand vista.

All of the feedback and tips I have received have been very helpful. I've learned a lot from this thread and other threads. However, I'm finding landscape images challenging and feeling bogged down with all the details. I'm going to work at a comfortable learning pace (ie; slower) and photograph what I see as a beautiful image when I find myself enamoured of a scene, instead of trying to capture a specific scene with everything in one image. I will keep trying. I will post another landscape image when I think I've managed to improve, at least a little.

Thank you Dave. Truly appreciated.

Sorry have to say Christina, this image is not a 'Mountain Scene'.
My eye is drawn straight to the boats to the left of the image and even more so with the mast strutting into the sky from the first boat. There is nothing in the foreground to anchor the image, no subject, a rock or something similar to lead you into the image. Lines in a landscape are important when done correctly but I don't see that in your image. As for the mountains well you can see them in the distance but there is no form or shape to them, no structure to tell us what shape they are and no shadows to see. This is not me having a go at you as you know me better than to pick faults with someones else's image when they are learning. Take on board all the good points that the other posters have given you but sometimes take a chance on a setting and go for it you have nothing to lose. There are times when you can get to emerged in the PP that you get lost and confused with your image and try and get something better when a simple tweak here and there is all you need.
Dave.

[nimitzbenedicto]

Hi Christina,

I would go with some cropping suggested by Richard. i.e. a little on the top and bottom.

However, I would crop off the right portion. Maybe leave a little of the mountain range tip on the right.

So, the left side mountain and boats will become the focus of attention.
Looking like an arrow tip pointing to the right.

Well, just as Griddie said - "Just me"

Thanks

[Brownbear]

Hi Victor,

Thank you. Truly appreciated. I have some images of just the boats and I may try similar images again because the boats and the reflections are pretty. For me this image was about capturing the scene in its entirety. One day I may develop a thing for boats

Hi Christina,

I would go with some cropping suggested by Richard. i.e. a little on the top and bottom.

However, I would crop off the right portion. Maybe leave a little of the mountain range tip on the right.

So, the left side mountain and boats will become the focus of attention.
Looking like an arrow tip pointing to the right.

Well, just as Griddie said - "Just me"

Thanks

[Stagecoach]

For me this image was about capturing the scene in its entirety.

And there can be no denying it's a beautiful scene. Mission accomplished

Grahame

[ajohnw]

I think some posts illustrate a problem. Many of them actually. An image can be opened to look at or to find fault with it. Then there is the in between one opening it to see if it can be improved. The latter 2 effectively prevent people from just looking at the image. Grahame summed it up really.

Personally I feel that it would be best for people who start threads like this to concentrate more on technical photographic issues with the the shot otherwise they might finish up never taking any photo's at all - especially landscapes. If some one is doing it professionally things are a little different. The aim is to please others and I doubt if any of them could stand in Christina's place there and produce what some people call a keeper. They might get one of those for every few hundred shots. They might get one from this scene given a variation in lenses and position or even the one she took. People do buy postcards. Some will buy larger versions of the same thing. From what I here though it's a hard life.

One curious thing about this area is that in competitions people seem to tend to vote on gut reactions influenced by the technical prowess demonstrated. Gut reaction is what matters in the end and some lay people might not appreciate or even like some aspect of the prowess. Some not so lay as well.

John
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[Brownbear]

Hi John,

Just to say that I truly appreciate your comment and I plan to keep working on improving the techs.

That said, the sole reason for my "learning landscapes" threads is to learn to photograph beautiful landscapes
(keepers). Therefore I value each and every suggestion I receive to help me improve.

I've been inspired by the fine landscape images created by many member of Cambridge in Colour. Therefore, I think that I am very fortunate to receive feedback to help me improve and learn new ways of seeing images which often includes pointers for things I never thought of. At times is information overload but eventually it all sinks in.

Thank you.

PS Grahame. Thank you.

PPS I posted this image on my Facebook page. All my friends loved the image but I didn't learn anything from it.

I think some posts illustrate a problem. Many of them actually. An image can be opened to look at or to find fault with it. Then there is the in between one opening it to see if it can be improved. The latter 2 effectively prevent people from just looking at the image. Grahame summed it up really.

Personally I feel that it would be best for people who start threads like this to concentrate more on technical photographic issues with the the shot otherwise they might finish up never taking any photo's at all - especially landscapes. If some one is doing it professionally things are a little different. The aim is to please others and I doubt if any of them could stand in Christina's place there and produce what some people call a keeper. They might get one of those for every few hundred shots. They might get one from this scene given a variation in lenses and position or even the one she took. People do buy postcards. Some will buy larger versions of the same thing. From what I here though it's a hard life.

One curious thing about this area is that in competitions people seem to tend to vote on gut reactions influenced by the technical prowess demonstrated. Gut reaction is what matters in the end and some lay people might not appreciate or even like some aspect of the prowess. Some not so lay as well.

John
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