Results 1 to 19 of 19

Thread: 93 subjects, 5 hot shoe flashes.

  1. #1
    RustBeltRaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    1,009
    Real Name
    Lex

    93 subjects, 5 hot shoe flashes.

    93 skaters. 10 minutes. 5 hot shoe flashes. 5 stitched shots.

    93 subjects, 5 hot shoe flashes.

    The full-sized version of this photo was stitched from 5 frames. It's 39MP, 13,830px wide. Naturally, I had to ask the skaters to stand very still while making the frames, and because it was an experiment which I didn't have high hopes for, I only took one set of five. That set turned into the final version (100% crop below).

    93 subjects, 5 hot shoe flashes.

    All shots 1/13sec, ISO400, f/4.0. Straight away, you can probably see one of the problems. The 1/13sec shutter speed required for the ambient/flash balance meant that there was some blur. I didn't use a tripod, but I did brace the camera directly atop the ladder I was standing on. Turns out ladders are pretty flimsy when they have 260lb of photographer on them.

    The flashes were 3x 600EX-RTs, and 2x 430EX IIs. Output was roughly balanced by setting the 430EXIIs were at full power, and the 600EX-RTs at 1/2 power +0.7 stops. They were placed on a light stand apiece, spread evenly in front of the subjects with their built-in diffusers down, gelled full CTO, and the exposure was adjusted by moving the stands back and forth. All were triggered by PocketWizards.

    93 subjects, 5 hot shoe flashes.

    I did quite a bit of pre-planning for this shoot, mainly because I didn't want to waste much time with that many people waiting, and I'd agree not to disrupt practice for more than ten minutes. I was asked a few hours before starting if I could do it in 3 minutes (internal response: #$&% no, external response more measured). The league was in front of the camera for about eight and a half.

    I'm pretty pleased with the results considering the restrictions, and if anyone else finds themselves in a similar situation, I hope this overview is helpful. Keen to hear everyone's thoughts on the process, including critique, and I'll happily answer anyone's questions.

  2. #2
    rpcrowe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Southern California, USA
    Posts
    17,402
    Real Name
    Richard

    Re: 93 subjects, 5 hot shoe flashes.

    Nicely done! I enjoy it when people "make" photos rather than just taking them!

  3. #3
    Stagecoach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Suva, Fiji
    Posts
    7,076
    Real Name
    Grahame

    Re: 93 subjects, 5 hot shoe flashes.

    Quite a challenge Lex especially with the time constraint and with a good result.

    If you had to do it again is there anything you have decided you would do differently ?

    Grahame

  4. #4
    IzzieK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Chesterfield, Missouri/Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    17,827
    Real Name
    Izzie

    Re: 93 subjects, 5 hot shoe flashes.

    Nicely done, Lex! Nothing to nit about...

  5. #5
    Shadowman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    WNY
    Posts
    36,716
    Real Name
    John

    Re: 93 subjects, 5 hot shoe flashes.

    Nice challenging undertaking.

  6. #6
    Moderator Manfred M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    22,158
    Real Name
    Manfred Mueller

    Re: 93 subjects, 5 hot shoe flashes.

    A people Pano - wow! Must have been challanging, but very well executed.

    I'd love it if you could post a "lessons learned" item.

  7. #7
    Loose Canon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Missouri, USA
    Posts
    2,454
    Real Name
    Terry

    Re: 93 subjects, 5 hot shoe flashes.

    Well done Lex!

    Is everyone's eyes open?

  8. #8
    Brownbear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    British Columbia, Canada
    Posts
    7,244
    Real Name
    Christina

    Re: 93 subjects, 5 hot shoe flashes.

    Amazing images. Thank you for sharing.

  9. #9
    RustBeltRaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    1,009
    Real Name
    Lex

    Re: 93 subjects, 5 hot shoe flashes.

    Quote Originally Posted by rpcrowe View Post
    Nicely done! I enjoy it when people "make" photos rather than just taking them!
    Thank you. I have trouble explaining that distinction to basically everyone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stagecoach
    If you had to do it again is there anything you have decided you would do differently ?
    Kill the ambient a bit more. 1/30sec shutter or faster. I wound up toning it down in post, and the shorter shutter would have reduced the blur issues. I'd look for a better way of stabilizing the camera 12ft off the ground, too. Maybe look for a Gitzo Giant or a big video 'pod for rent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loose Canon
    Is everyone's eyes open?
    Every single one, yes. One of the announcers looked away at exactly the wrong moment, but I didn't lose much sleep over that.

    Quote Originally Posted by GrumpyDiver
    A people Pano - wow! Must have been challanging, but very well executed.
    Before shooting the pano (5 frames with a 50mm f1.4, overlapped about 1/3rd each), I asked everyone to stay very still. Someone asked if they should smile or not, and I said "whatever you can hold." For a high-energy bunch, they were admirably stoic. I spent quite a bit of time worrying about how I could correct any stitching discrepancies, but Photoshop handled the merge very well.

    Quote Originally Posted by GrumpyDiver
    I'd love it if you could post a "lessons learned" item.
    Allow a ton of setup time. I was permitted to shoot in a brief window between the end of the team's warm-up laps, and their actual practice, both of which started immediately after the rink's nightly open skate ended. Every light and radio was ready. Once it was time to go, I just had to carry the stands and ladder onto the track.

    Test everything repeatedly, up to the last minute. With a shot like this, quite a bit can go wrong. Batteries in one of the Canon 430EX IIs I borrowed died between initial set-up and placing the lights on the track - exactly the wrong time. Final testing right before gathering the skaters let me correct the problem without wasting any time.

    Have an assistant. Audrey, a budding photographer I'm instructing and an employee at the rink, was a big help for simple things like "stand there so I can test exposure" and "tell me if all five lights are firing." They don't need a crazy amount of technical knowledge, but having someone to help with simple tasks can take a load off your mind.

    Yell. Be very loud. Instructions need to be clear, sentences short and unambiguous. If you're not too stressed, a little self-deprecating humor can help put your subjects at ease.

    Have a plan for everyone's layout, and someone to help you arrange them (not necessarily you or your assistant). For teams like this, a coach or trainer can be very helpful.

    Know the location, and get permission. This is the arena where I skate every Wednesday, so I knew the space, the white balance, and the limitations. I taped towels onto the feet of my ladder and ran around in my socks to protect the skating surface. Location work forces you to do some weird stuff. But it's worth it to stay on the owner's good side. Worth mentioning that I did all that without being prompted. If you've planned to protect and respect the location, you are more likely to find the staff/caretakers willing to work with you. I got their permission before hauling in and settings up my gear, and worked in a location they approved. Know the name of whoever gives you permission so you can wave it in the face of anyone who questions you.

    Shoot onto multiple cards. I didn't do this, even though I'd planned to, and I had the spare cards in my pocket. It slipped my mind with all the rushing I was doing (total of 27 shots while everyone was in front of the camera). If the card had failed in the three-minute gap between taking the final shot and loading them onto my laptop's RAID, all the work would have been wasted. This was my biggest potential blunder.

    Have spares. Extra AAs saved my butt, and literally everything else had a backup, right down to an extra light stand and hot shoe flash to 5/8in spigot adapter.

    Nail down your settings and lights before anyone even shows up. Some back-of-the-napkin SWAG math gave me my aperture, I kept the ISO at 400 to balance noise, but high enough to give me the shutter speed I (thought I) needed, and to match the Tri-X film I shot with later.

    Know how much space you need. I estimated that 90 people in 3 rows would take up the space between the black track lines, and as you can see, I underestimated a little. That resulted in some frantic movement, pushing the ladder and lights back to fit everyone within a 32mm field of view.

    Take risks. The 5-shot pano was not plan A. I covered my butt with some wide-angle shots (20mm f/2.8 on 1.6x crop), but the quality was vastly better with the longer lens and panostitch. It was a long shot, but well worth it.

    Have fun. Once the digital shots were in the bag, I broke out the Zenza Bronica for a few frames. I had selected my digital settings partially so I could swap the flash radio onto the Bronica (settings were already dialed in) and pop off a few frames. Haven't developed them yet, but they should be pretty cool.

  10. #10
    Moderator Manfred M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    22,158
    Real Name
    Manfred Mueller

    Re: 93 subjects, 5 hot shoe flashes.

    It seems that our friend Murphy was along on the shoot (isn't he always?), and you seem to have coped admirably. I figured shooting a group that large would be really like herding cats, but the people issues seem to have have been relatively minor (kudos to the photographer on this one!).

    Thanks for the info; I'm sure that after they see the results, you'll be asked for a repeat shoot some time in the future.

  11. #11
    RustBeltRaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    1,009
    Real Name
    Lex

    Re: 93 subjects, 5 hot shoe flashes.

    Quote Originally Posted by GrumpyDiver View Post
    Thanks for the info; I'm sure that after they see the results, you'll be asked for a repeat shoot some time in the future.
    They're already making plans for next year.

  12. #12

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    northern Virginia suburb of Washington, DC
    Posts
    19,064

    Re: 93 subjects, 5 hot shoe flashes.

    Great thread, Lex.

    The image looks great, especially considering the cirumstances. It must be the equipment that you use.

  13. #13
    RustBeltRaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    1,009
    Real Name
    Lex

    Re: 93 subjects, 5 hot shoe flashes.

    Mike, that grinning smiley saved you from a rant.

  14. #14

    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    northern Virginia suburb of Washington, DC
    Posts
    19,064

    Re: 93 subjects, 5 hot shoe flashes.

    Quote Originally Posted by RustBeltRaw View Post
    Mike, that grinning smiley saved you from a rant.
    Whew! Close call!

  15. #15
    dragon76's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Brisbane, Australia
    Posts
    275
    Real Name
    Dean

    Re: 93 subjects, 5 hot shoe flashes.

    Good experiment Lex, Do you have a close up of the standing players in back row?

  16. #16

    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    North West of England
    Posts
    7,178
    Real Name
    John

    Re: 93 subjects, 5 hot shoe flashes.

    Quote Originally Posted by rpcrowe View Post
    Nicely done! I enjoy it when people "make" photos rather than just taking them!
    I'll second that.

  17. #17
    rpcrowe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Southern California, USA
    Posts
    17,402
    Real Name
    Richard

    Re: 93 subjects, 5 hot shoe flashes.

    You mentioned, "I'd look for a better way of stabilizing the camera 12ft off the ground, too. Maybe look for a Gitzo Giant or a big video 'pod for rent."

    When I was a young Navy Photographer at the Armed Forces Staff College, I was tasked with shooting large groups of graduating officers on a frequent basis.

    We used a tall ladder and mounted a tripod head to the top of the ladder. This worked quite well to stabilize the camera at that high level...

    We "cheated" and shot the groups in the afternoon in front of the main building. There were steps on which to pose the group and it was also generally in a light shade....

  18. #18
    RustBeltRaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    1,009
    Real Name
    Lex

    Re: 93 subjects, 5 hot shoe flashes.

    Quote Originally Posted by rpcrowe View Post
    We used a tall ladder and mounted a tripod head to the top of the ladder. This worked quite well to stabilize the camera at that high level...
    I had the camera in a beanbag atop the ladder, so this wasn't actually hand-held. The ladder itself was wobbling, so a tripod head at the top wouldn't have helped (with that ladder). A sturdier ladder or a set of rolling industrial steps might be a better bet for next time.

  19. #19
    Moderator Manfred M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Ottawa, Canada
    Posts
    22,158
    Real Name
    Manfred Mueller

    Re: 93 subjects, 5 hot shoe flashes.

    Quote Originally Posted by rpcrowe View Post
    You mentioned, "I'd look for a better way of stabilizing the camera 12ft off the ground, too. Maybe look for a Gitzo Giant or a big video 'pod for rent."

    When I was a young Navy Photographer at the Armed Forces Staff College, I was tasked with shooting large groups of graduating officers on a frequent basis.

    We used a tall ladder and mounted a tripod head to the top of the ladder. This worked quite well to stabilize the camera at that high level...

    We "cheated" and shot the groups in the afternoon in front of the main building. There were steps on which to pose the group and it was also generally in a light shade....
    Richard - Your comment reminds me of a snapshot I took outside of the Naval Dockyard in Venice a couple of years ago. There must have been a class going on as this naval group took over one of the bridges over a canal for a picture...

    93 subjects, 5 hot shoe flashes.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •