Learning Landscapes - Silvery Sea

[Mike Buckley]

When you look through Galen Rowell's book, look for leading lines. You'll see many great images in it with no leading lines.

[TonyW]

The reason I asked about the height was that I thought that the comment about the curvature of the horizon being due to the curvature of the earth, which I interpreted as being facetious, is really not so silly. The change in angle on the earth is around 1 degree in 60 miles. It looks to me as though your horizon changes by something of the order of 1degree and the length of your horizon could be around 60 miles.

I have just been looking at some of my pictures taken over the ocean like yours, but from a smaller boat. They all show a curved horizon like yours.

[Mike Buckley]

That's an interesting theory, Tony. I don't know enough about the curvature of the earth to know if that would explain the curvature of the horizon in Christina's photos. I do know that it could easily be explained by an imperfection that is common to many, many lenses.

In my mind, it really doesn't matter what causes the curvature of the horizon in her photos. If she likes the curvature, she can leave it as is. If she doesn't like it, she can change it, just as she makes make all sorts of other changes during post-processing. In fact, if she would prefer a stronger curvature, she can also easily make that happen.

I still prefer my explanation over all other explanations: that the horizon seems curved because we've all been drinking too much wine.

[ShaneS]

These silvery water scenes with interesting clouds are notoriously difficult to get right Christina. Here is one that I want to love but didn't quite make to cut for me...

For me this image was about the play of the light coming through the clouds onto the water but what I got was a much more static image and nothing like the scene that I saw or remember. Some of the magic didn't translate well into the photograph.



I hope that you don't mind me adding an image to the thread (let me know if you want me to remove it) but I wanted to let you know that you aren't alone

[Digital]

Christina, some of the comments on this thread got me to thinking which, by the way, is hard for me to do.
Early in my photography I would photograph a scene that to me looked great, and the camera would record it. When I got the results back (this was in the film days), I was often disappointed in the results.
As you are beginning to learn, this is some times the case since our perception of a scene is hooked to our brains. The camera is a recorder. In other words, it will capture a scene the way it "sees" it. This capture is not always what we expected since the camera is simply a recorder manipulated by the operator.
As you gain experience you will be able to look at scenes, and discriminate to the point that what you see, and what the camera records merge.
The beauty of the digital age is that the photographer can see immediately what the camera records.
One example, in my own experience, is seeing a landscape of green (green fields during the spring), and thinking how beautiful. When you record it, the scene disappoints you because there is no counterbalancing elements in the scene. It is just a green field.
I hope this has been helpful.


Bruce

[Brownbear]

Tony... Thank you for sharing. Very interesting indeed. The next time I take photos from a boat I will keep this in mind.

Shane... Thank you so much for sharing your image. The light coming through the clouds and silvery sea is exactly what captured my attention, and it is very nice to know I'm not alone.

Bruce... Thank you for sharing, and yes very helpful to know. I was reading up on this very topic the other day and it was explained partially as how the camera sees with just one aperture but our eyes see an image by adjusting apertures for each part of the scene. When I see a scene it is definitely with emotion, and I also see the scene with emotion when I check the camera play back of the image. Hopefully I will start to see what the camera records. Thanks for the heads up on the green fields as it sounds exactly like an image I would try to photograph come Spring. Truly appreciated and very helpful.

Mike... Yes, indeed. All of Galen Rowell's images have a strong subject, and indeed many are without leading lines. Thank you for sharing that.

[Mike Buckley]

All of Galen Rowell's images have a strong subject

When you get the time, be sure to read all of the text. He explains the details of making each photo and entire chapters are devoted to guiding principles.

I encourage you to take a moment today to read page 102 because it pertains to the topic of incorporating a strong subject in each image. The second line on that page begins an explanation of his thought process that took place once he had chosen a subject. The very next paragraph begins with the explanation that "With landscapes I first try to single out a meaningful area from the panrorama before me."

Once you begin photographing landscapes with the concepts presented on page 102 in mind, the quality of your landscapes (and seascapes) will improve exponentially and will be far more rewarding to you and everyone who views them.

[ajohnw]

I feel you have hit it perfectly on your own processing 1st one but wonder if you have over done the dark cloud areas a little from the jpg. For me any more than that would be looking for faults rather than taking in the shot which I feel is nicely balanced. I think the hint of colour is rather nice but some might bump that sort of thing up.

If that's you rather wide angle nikon the curvature is about what I would expect on the horizon. It's a pity you loose the exif when you post shots.

I assume you are using Adobe DNG. If you nose around you will probably find 5 different camera profiles. 4 emulating Nikon and one Adobe standard - yuck for me so far. You should try each of these to see what they do to the shot before working on it. You should find them in a folder under adobe/cameraraw. You may find that the camera profile is a drop down that will take you straight to them or has a button to select and load them.

John
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[Mike Buckley]

If that's you rather wide angle nikon the curvature is about what I would expect on the horizon.

You're stronger on the technical stuff than I am, John. Would you expect that because that lens has a reputation for producing a moderate amount of barrel or pincushion distortion or is it because of another factor? If it's the latter, what is that factor?

[Saorsa]

You're stronger on the technical stuff than I am, John. Would you expect that because that lens has a reputation for producing a moderate amount of barrel or pincushion distortion or is it because of another factor? If it's the latter, what is that factor?

It's not really a matter or barrel or pincushion distortion. That's just the way all wide angle lenses work. If you want the horizon to be a straight line it needs to be near the centerline with the camera as level as possible.

Here is an extreme example. Three shots with a 10.5mm fisheye.

First, camera held level.



Camera tilted down



Camera tilted up



The final one also shows the natural polariztion of the sky. But, that's a whole different subject.

[bnnrcn]

Christina,Brian's explanation is about what I asked Mike in the beginning of the thread.So,Brian explained it with sample pictures.If you read the tutorial in CIC about wide angle lenses ,the matter is explained very nicely there.

[Mike Buckley]

Thanks for that, Brian. I never realized a wide angle lens (as opposed to an ultra wide angle or a fisheye lens) would produce a curved horizon. That's good to know and shows how important it is for Christina to be vigilant about looking for that when she uses that lens.

[Brownbear]

Hi John,

Thank you for commenting on my post processing. I was beginning to think that perhaps the original jpeg was better simply because no one commented on that. And thank you for letting me know about the clouds because as I learn to post process I want to keep the real look.

I used my Nikon 24-200 mm lens and most of the images were photographed at a focal length of 55mm. Sorry about the exif data, I used to post it all but lately I've been thinking it is really not that helpful. Most of these were photographed at F9 SS 1600, ISO 200 Exp Comp -1.67 using aperture priority... F9 simply because I was on a moving boat (too hard to use a tripod) and I wanted the images to be sharp and to have a fast shutter speed. If I wasn't on a boat I would've tried to blur the water. And in hindsight that is likely why the water looks too sharp.

I use Lightroom 5 and process from raw. (no DNG files yet) but I will look for those camera profiles. Thank you for the tip as I'm sure it will make learning quicker.

I feel you have hit it perfectly on your own processing 1st one but wonder if you have over done the dark cloud areas a little from the jpg. For me any more than that would be looking for faults rather than taking in the shot which I feel is nicely balanced. I think the hint of colour is rather nice but some might bump that sort of thing up.

If that's you rather wide angle nikon the curvature is about what I would expect on the horizon. It's a pity you loose the exif when you post shots.

I assume you are using Adobe DNG. If you nose around you will probably find 5 different camera profiles. 4 emulating Nikon and one Adobe standard - yuck for me so far. You should try each of these to see what they do to the shot before working on it. You should find them in a folder under adobe/cameraraw. You may find that the camera profile is a drop down that will take you straight to them or has a button to select and load them.

John
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[Mike Buckley]

Now that we know the image was taken with a 55mm focal length, I'm back to being absolutely convinced that the curved horizon is the result of lens distortion (barrel or pincushion distortion).

Christina,

I saw in another thread that you use Photobucket for the sole purpose of displaying photos here at CiC. If you instead use the TinyPic upload capability, all of your exif data will be retained. You would then not have to take the time to post that information in the thread. For anyone who thinks the exif data is important, they can quickly download the image to their computer and read the exif data using their own software. Alternatively, some people use plugins attached to their browser to read it without having to download the image.

You could also determine whether perhaps Photobucket has a setting that prevents the exif data from being removed.

[Brownbear]

Brian.. Thank you for sharing. I do have a wide angle lens and when I use it for landscapes I will be aware of this, thanks to you.

Binnur... Thank you for sharing. It is a good tutorial that I have read a few times, and that I will likely need to revisit soon. I'm finding that using the wide angle lens is very different and only works for certain scenes. ie; I'm still getting used to it.

Mike... Thank you. Yes, I'm getting to know my lens, too. And here I thought it was my eyesight or that I had actually managed to capture the natural curvature of the earth.

[Brownbear]

Thank you Mike. I've read that page and it is very helpful. Actually I love this book simply because he shares everything via personal stories and it makes for a very interesting and inspiring read.

Let's hope so.

When you get the time, be sure to read all of the text. He explains the details of making each photo and entire chapters are devoted to guiding principles.

I encourage you to take a moment today to read page 102 because it pertains to the topic of incorporating a strong subject in each image. The second line on that page begins an explanation of his thought process that took place once he had chosen a subject. The very next paragraph begins with the explanation that "With landscapes I first try to single out a meaningful area from the panrorama before me."

Once you begin photographing landscapes with the concepts presented on page 102 in mind, the quality of your landscapes (and seascapes) will improve exponentially and will be far more rewarding to you and everyone who views them.

[Brownbear]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for sharing the lens info and Tiny Pic.

I will look at Tiny Pic, it is just if I switch to something else all my posted images here will be lost and too much work to repost. I will also see if there is a setting I can change in Photobucket.

Now that we know the image was taken with a 55mm focal length, I'm back to being absolutely convinced that the curved horizon is the result of lens distortion (barrel or pincushion distortion).

Christina,

I saw in another thread that you use Photobucket for the sole purpose of displaying photos here at CiC. If you instead use the TinyPic upload capability, all of your exif data will be retained. You would then not have to take the time to post that information in the thread. For anyone who thinks the exif data is important, they can quickly download the image to their computer and read the exif data using their own software. Alternatively, some people use plugins attached to their browser to read it without having to download the image.

You could also determine whether perhaps Photobucket has a setting that prevents the exif data from being removed.

[Mike Buckley]

it is just if I switch to something else all my posted images here will be lost

Only if you shut down your Photobucket site. If you keep it another year without adding new images to it, you could shut it down then with no harm done.

[ajohnw]

LOL I took it as the natural curvature of the horizon but slightly tilted which could have been corrected. Small point really.

Should the curvature be corrected though? The fact that it hasn't been would make ordinary people feel they were looking at a wide vista. Nawt wrong with that really is there? Possibly a trick worth remembering.

John
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[Brownbear]

Just for those that are interested. While photographing some birds this morning I took the time to take a couple of test shots of a city scape with my Nikkor 18-200 mm lens. At 90 mm the curve in the horizon is in the center. At 20 mm it is a little less curved and more on the sides of the horizon.