Beer, etc.

[Downrigger]

My first three subjects in an exploration of new territory with a homemade light box. Learned a lot about my ignorance in a very short time. This is entirely new, to me, a discipline of discovering, composing and telling about objects in a spare, exacting approach. Like attempting poetry. I think what small fraction of this I am getting my head around will strengthen my newbie abilities in other genres. I have a much greater appreciation of the vision and technique involved in some of the really great contributions made here by Mike Buckley and others and realize how far away I am from that sort of art. I hope to get some C&C here to help me figure out how to push this along.

[Downrigger]

And the other two:

[Downrigger]

[Shadowman]

I like the beer image. You've got a few extra reflections that are a bit of a distraction, distracting because I'm trying to figure out what they are.

[NorthernFocus]

An interesting journey of discovery which I agree will only add to an overall skill set of photography. I like the beer shot. The cap is a nice touch.

[IzzieK]

Here's my take:

In the beer image, have you thought of moving the glass just a tinnie weenie bit from the bottle to make a separation? The move the beer cap a little bit somewhere where it doesn't make a reflection from the bottom of the glass. I suppose you have a light shining from the top of your tent? How about moving it a bit to take care of the reflections on the side of the bottle? (I have this experience yesterday when I was taking a photo of three wine bottles. Positioning the light slightly took care of that...) There are a lot of possibilities for improvement here...BTW, nice brands.

In #2 I like idea...simple, sharp, etc. but get rid of that little thingy hanging under the silvery metal part of the shot.

In #3, tell a story about the shoes. The first thing that came to mind here was an old, old Aussie ad about 4X beer where workers have finished a day's job on a very hot summer day, with their running shoes on, they all went to a cooler full of ... guess what? -- 4X beer!

Yesterday I uploaded a link on that guy who encountered a supposedly vicious predator of the ocean. One discussion led to another and we all got to know that the guy was Paul Necklin or something like that...anyway, googling an answer to a question, I came upon his story of how he started becoming a photographer. The thing that stuck in my mind was an advice to him by one of his friends ... tell a story.

The tennis shoes shot has a lot of unanswered question on how it came to be that grubby, well used, etc. It will spark more interest if you tell a story about it...even a made-up one.

And oh btw...I love that running shoes shot....just that it lacks something...

[NorthernFocus]

I like the idea on the shoe, Izzie. It struck me the same way. Needed some context. For my story I could throw in a dog leash. For my wife's shoe, some racing medals. Nearly anything added would invoke a bit of thought.

[tbob]

The beer image is quite interesting. I have one question about the set up. Did you use black coffee with a bit of dishwashing liquid to substitute for the beer? I could never leave a glass of craft beer sitting long enough to get this image otherwise. Maybe it was shot at 1/1000 second?

[Downrigger]

Thanks everyone for helpful and kind comments. Working with glass commands much more attention to reflections than I gave the matter. Perhaps live view would help me see these problems before I make my exposures, Izzie. And yes, Izzie, I forgot to clone out that bit of spider drek.

Yes - the shoe is insufficient story in itself. I just got wrapped up in it as an object, and a better image would provide context. Dog leash, old headband, iPod with earphones - something, Dan & Izzie.

Trevor - capture followed immediately by consumption. This is one of a great number of Utah craft beers and this surprises some people. The early LDS pioneers actually built quite a brewery here shortly after settling Salt Lake so they could peddle to the settlers coming thorugh for points west. They must have done some restrained tasting to assure the quality of the brew, but presumably, that's all.

[William W]

. . . Learned a lot about my ignorance in a very short time. . .

Fantastic! And a great phrase too.

*

The beer shot has the most worth as a follow up; and is also the best executed thus far.
I resonated with much of what Isabel has written; separation; bottle top reflection . . . and "tell a story" hits home.
Also the light reflections John mentioned, need attention.

I'll add - the glass and the bottle: aren't they different brands? That's confusing and illogical to my photographic thinking, but that's maybe because I am thinking "selling and marketing" is the purpose of the shot.

I'd choose a glass which was smaller in volume than the bottle and have the head flow over - try a small battery fan or hair dryer to manoeuvre the head.

Neither the glass nor the bottle, appear "cold". Cold beer (to my mind) is “inviting”.
Try glycerine drops on the glass to imitate condensation (I’ve failed at that) - or use condensation (I do this). You’ll need a lot of glasses in the freezer and bring them out to warm to room temperature (and nice condensation) and you can swish the same beer between the glasses as each glass looses the ability to make the appropriate amount of condensation.

I think that the lighting/reflections can be better sorted generally, but also there is scope to use a bit of PP to clean up some of those minor issues - and I think you might look more closely at the very fine details in this regard, when you are in Post Production.

As a example – the reflections (two) of the bottle top in the glass and the bottle can be easily fixed, the odd light in the bottle also. The shadows at the base of the scene near the bottle top can go and the background can become white.
The image can withstand a bit of sharpening and the reds and blues enhanced and also the mid-tone contrasts boosted, especially to pick out the scene on the bottle – the man might as well be more ruddy.
Here is a rough indicative and the original is on the left:


WW

[Downrigger]

Thank you for all of that - it all makes sense to me, and the re-do is very instructive and a lot better. Yes - two breweries - just the best glad I had and the most interesting beer label I had. One thing though - unschooled as I am it seems just intuitively wrong to have the two halves of the subject apart, like stark unrelatedness. But I'll give it a try. Thank you again.

[shreds]

Just a note: - in Britain, good ale/beer is not cold beer. I know it is different across the pond. If it had condensation running down it, I would avoid it like the plague. Real ale is not craft beer or keg!

On a serious photographic note, I agree that there should be a small separation between the bottle and glass and the highlights should be avoided by softer or more diffused/reflected lighting.

I would also have filled the glass, even if it meant opening another bottle.

[Mike Buckley]

This is a really great start, Mark! You decided from the outset to use a "spare, exacting approach" and you remained true to your design concept in all three images. To that end, your lighting setup produced very few shadows and the few that you did produce are very soft.

I've got a different take from some of the comments that have been made, so consider everything in whatever context works best for you.

Image #1
I didn't realize that you enjoy inflicting pain upon yourself but I can't imagine any other reason for photographing glass, especially transparent glass, as your first product shot. For me, this one is the weakest of the three photos, which is exactly what I would expect considering the difficulties of photographing glass.

The most important aspect of photographing glass is ensuring that its shape is displayed, which in turn requires separating it from the background. Notice that the rear rim of the glass blends in with the background. I've never used a light tent to photograph transparent glass and wonder if that's the problem. The method that I use (though there are other successful methods) is the method described in Light: Science and Magic, which uses light coming from the rear in a particular manner that ensures that the edges of the glass are dark when the background is bright. Your light tent is bouncing light all around so much that I wonder if that's what created the lack of separation.

Similarly, you've lost separation between parts of the rear of the froth and the background. You also lost most of the detail in the froth itself.

Regarding the discussion about the composition, the biggest no-no for me is that you're sending mixed messages by using different brands on the glass and bottle. It would be fine to use a glass with no branding. It may be just my own personal preference, but I'd like to see either total separation between the glass and bottle or more of an overlap.

I don't know anything about the aesthetics typically associated with drinking beer, so I don't know about the ideas of including moisture on the glass and bottle and other ideas that might help tell your story better.

Notice that you've got some direct reflection somewhat obscuring detail on the label attached to the neck of the bottle. If the label was made of material that produced a more diffuse reflection, that problem would have been avoided. You weren't that lucky, so you need to deal with the issue. That leads to perhaps my most important suggestion:

The more limited your lighting setup is (such as when I'm in my makeshift studio) and the more complex your subject matter is (such as this scene that includes transparent glass, translucent glass, translucent liquid, highly reflective labels and metal), the more shots you will need to make with each shot using a different setup. You then combine the best parts of each capture to get the best final result.

Similarly, use post-processing technique to eliminate the other problems. That include imperfections in the glass that you have no other control over and to fix issues that are easier fixed during post-processing than using a different lighting setup. An example would be the nasty reflections in the shoulder of the bottle. William's treatment dealt with the major reflections of your lamp(s) but not the other little curly cue reflections.

Though I found a lot of fault with this first image, keep in mind that it's about ten times as good as my first effort of the kind. Well done as a first attempt!

Image #2
When photographing metal, it's almost always best to ensure that it's as bright and shiny as possible. You did an excellent job of making that happen. Doing so also brought out the texture where it exists and the smooth surface where no texture exists. I especially like the composition and its use of multiple diagonals, though I would like to have quite a bit more space on all sides.

Notice the highlights on the bar code that are more specular than the other highlights on that clamp. If you had positioned the clamp so the bar code was hidden, it would have then been easy to deal with those during post-processing. Similarly, regarding the little thingy hanging down from that clamp, it would have been really easy to remove it during post-processing once you realized that you had overlooked it earlier.

Image #3
Please, no more running shoes, Mark! The image reminds me that I haven't been doing enough running lately.

This is actually my favorite of the three images (with the second image running a very close second). The well-worn subject is so out of character with the clean tabletop and background that the setting is both intriguing and humorous for me. In other words, this is the one image that, for me, goes beyond being just a documentary shot; it expresses considerable individuality and a personal view of the subject.

A couple of nit picks:

You lost separation between the top two strands of the laces and the background.

If you used the same light source(s) for this third image as the other two, I wonder if something went slightly awry with your camera's Auto White Balance. Notice that the white balance in this image is a bit yellow compared to the first two. Or perhaps you intentionally altered the color balance during post-processing.

Summary

Well done all around. If everything had been perfect your first time at it, you would be bored.

[Brownbear]

Hi Mark,

I especially like the beer and the running shoe image. (less so the 2nd image but only because of the subject matter)

I wonder if you could place something inside the shoe that would place/hold the shoe in a flexed position (as one runs, ie in the pushing off of your toes and heel up position) that would imply movement and indirectly a story.

[Downrigger]

I'm with you Ian - Porter not much below room temp is about right. And thanks - I'm getting the message about the intensity of highlights and reflections. Next lousy weather day I'll be all over it.

Mike - thank you so much for the encouragement and information, complete with rationales and remedies. Is cut, pasted, printed and taped to my "light box table" in the basement. On the WB - all these shots were done with autoWB and the lighting is incandescent - standard, so warm. And the shots all came out quite warm (orange-yellow cast) looking and all had to be cooled down quite a bit in PP. I'll shoot again with WB set for incandescent - I don't like to have to shove the pixels around that much, even working with RAW files.

Christina - I'll cook up something with that shoe - I like your thinking on that problem. Thanks.

[Mike Buckley]

What kind of lamps are you using, Mark? The reason I ask is that your white balance issues will be solved if you use compact fluorescent rated at either 5000 or 5500 Kelvin. Then set your white balance to that Kelvin value. The lamps are expensive but last 6000 hours if I remember correctly and they're not as hot as incandescent lamps.

[William W]

Thanks Mike, very comprehensive and informative Post #13, some very valuable finer points that I picked up - for which I am most appreciative.

[Brownbear]

Now you have my imagination off and running. Perhaps add a second timer to the image... I forget what they are called but they look like little clocks and used to time your running speed.

[Mike Buckley]

Now you have my imagination off and running.

You're not even embarrassed.

[Mike Buckley]

Mark,

The easiest way to implement Christina's idea is to rip a big hole in the top of the light tent, tell your wife to put on the shoe, to stand on one foot and to raise her heel. Then remove her leg during post-processing. It won't do anything for your marriage but the divorce lawyers will love you.