Multiple flash photography...

[IzzieK]

I am a very amateur and very beginner and ultra ignorant about multiple flash photography so be gentle with me...

I have two wireless flash system, a wireless remote control (Vella Freewave Plus) that connects to my camera (D300s and D90 2nd edition), lighting systems and a portable ring light. I want to know how to fire off the two flashes that I have so that I can move on to learning studio lighting. Positioning them will be my choice according to what I am photographing, of course, but enabling the two flashes is my problem. Please note that I realized I have to connect the wireless remote in my camera.

What do I do? What do I need? No problems about putting the flashes in my tripods, I have quite a few of them actually...but who doesn't? I just thought that I might find a use for them if I get into multiple flash photography. No, not really because of the tripod but really, it is time for me to move on from photographing airplanes, fly-ins, museums...and move to a studio environment to learn this part of the equation...

I tried to google multiple flash photography but google is not my friend at the moment -- it gives me conflicting info on what to use, usually through my ignorance about this kind of photography...

I just want a simple set-up for now...so please help....anyone??? Thanks....!!!!

[Shadowman]

Isabel,

It sounds like you need a wireless Speedlight Commander. I have one that can control up to four flash units. If your current unit is similar it should be able to do the same, the commander and flash units have channels that you set (different channels for each flash unit).

http://www.nikonusa.com/en/Nikon-Pro...Commander.html

[Manfred M]

This is a pretty broad question Isabel; and I guess the first place to start is trying to figure out what you are trying to do.

In most situations, there is one main or "key" light and the additional light sources are used to enhance the key light. For instance, your second light source can be a fill flight that pushes a bit of light at the subject to soften shadows. Often my second light is not a light at all, but rather I use a fairly simple reflector as a fill light. A third light might be added to get the subject to stand out from the background, this is often referred to as a rim light. A special case of this type of lighting where only the hair is illuminated, is referred to as a hair light. Sometimes an additional light is brought in to light they background; in order to help separate it from the subject, etc. etc. All these lights are generally set to give out less light than the key light.

The other thing that is important is your light modifier. Once you start using more than a single light source. we want to control the quantity and direction of all light sources. The simplest modifiers are umbrellas and they come in a variety of sizes and finishes (white, silver, gold). Some reflect the light while others are translucent and are shoot through umbrellas.

I shoot multiple lights 100% manually.

If you have Nikon Speedlights, your D90 can be used in Commander Mode to fire them. I have PocketWizard radio triggers as well and use these mostly for my studio lights.

[JR1]

Don't kid yourself you need expensive gear, I shoot still life studio work, and have just done a book for a large charity, Age UK, and I either mount my gear on my tripods or these stands

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-Meter-Ko...item3f2bd894ab

They have lasted TWO years, and they are riveted joints, if one goes you can easily use a nut/bolt but at £4 a year, come on.

I also use KOOD brollies.

I also use two flash heads and where needed fill with 5 in 1 £15 large reflectors off ebay, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PIXAPRO-10...item2c70670931

Its also "what you know" and how you use it not always how much you can spend, however I do use decent guns, Metz 45-cl4 digitals and SB910 Nikons, BUT what you have is more than adequate

Plenty to find if you google "studio flash tutorials"

http://www.geofflawrence.com/studio_lighting.html

[IzzieK]

Thanks for the quick response John...In one of my forays in the internet I have seen something like this so brought on this topic but I need to find how to connect the control unit. It looks like I have to connect the control unit in the hot shoe or something, but how about using my remote. Does the control unit acts like a remote too? What about my remote control? Do I get rid of it for now because it will be useless if I have a control unit? Please explain further...

Isabel,

It sounds like you need a wireless Speedlight Commander. I have one that can control up to four flash units. If your current unit is similar it should be able to do the same, the commander and flash units have channels that you set (different channels for each flash unit).

http://www.nikonusa.com/en/Nikon-Pro...Commander.html

[IzzieK]

Jeremy -- thank you. I will google that topic instead and see how I go. Info is well appreciated.

[JR1]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Wireless-f...item23386084cb

You don't need expensive kit, this will do three guns, spend twice as much and it will do 6 guns

[IzzieK]

This is a pretty broad question Isabel; and I guess the first place to start is trying to figure out what you are trying to do.

I just want to start learning fill flash using multiple flash units...in my case, I have two of them. I know I can do my learning using other stuffs I already have and so far I have been successful in them, but curiousity on how to use off camera flash is one of the learning I need (want?) to learn to go to for a start.

[QUOTE] In most situations, there is one main or "key" light and the additional light sources are used to enhance the key light. For instance, your second light source can be a fill flight that pushes a bit of light at the subject to soften shadows. Often my second light is not a light at all, but rather I use a fairly simple reflector as a fill light. [/UNQOTE]
I have reflectors, big ones too, reversible to gold and white and another one reversible to silver and black which I use at times in the studio but it is fairly huge so I thought an off flash unit is the way to go...smaller footprint considering that I will start learning in my studio environment?

A third light might be added to get the subject to stand out from the background, this is often referred to as a rim light. A special case of this type of lighting where only the hair is illuminated, is referred to as a hair light. Sometimes an additional light is brought in to light they background; in order to help separate it from the subject, etc. etc. All these lights are generally set to give out less light than the key light.

I already have a rim light but in some cases I don't need it...

The other thing that is important is your light modifier. Once you start using more than a single light source. we want to control the quantity and direction of all light sources. The simplest modifiers are umbrellas and they come in a variety of sizes and finishes (white, silver, gold). Some reflect the light while others are translucent and are shoot through umbrellas.

Umbrellas are what I see in the internet as to use of multiple flash. I already have a lighting system similar to an umbrella but not quite an umbrella though shaped like it and it has a silver lining inside it and a soft almost type of transparent fabric around it to soften the light.

I shoot multiple lights 100% manually.

If you have Nikon Speedlights, your D90 can be used in Commander Mode to fire them. I have PocketWizard radio triggers as well and use these mostly for my studio lights.

Maybe that is what I need (want?) a Pocket Wizard so I can fire off the two flashes that I have for learning purposes...

Thank you very much for your help.

[Manfred M]

Silly question; what kind of flashes (make and model) do you have?

[Shadowman]

Thanks for the quick response John...In one of my forays in the internet I have seen something like this so brought on this topic but I need to find how to connect the control unit. It looks like I have to connect the control unit in the hot shoe or something, but how about using my remote. Does the control unit acts like a remote too? What about my remote control? Do I get rid of it for now because it will be useless if I have a control unit? Please explain further...

Isabel,

You can set the camera using the Release Mode button as you normally would and use the remote control.

[inkista]

+1 on Manfred's question. What flashes are we talking about here? If they're CLS-capable (e.g., Nikon SB-600/700/800/900/910), then just use your D90 or D300s's pop-up flash in commander mode. If they're studio strobes, then they probably have optical slaves you can trip with the pop-up flash in manual mode. If you're working outside, in bright sunlight, then you might need radio triggers. But triggering the lights off-camera should be relatively easy.

The google phrase you want is not "multiple flash" but "off-camera flash", and the site you probably want to go to is The Strobist, although if reading is not your cuppa for learning, then maybe blowing the US$75 and bandwidth to get Zack Arias's OneLight 2.0 videos might be a better choice.

I would also recommend getting at least one lightstand, rather than relying on tripods. Tripods suck for holding your lights overhead.

[jcuknz]

The simplest way might be to open the shutter with a half second exposure or longer and manually fire the flash.
Here a photographer set up his lights for a group of photographers and gave us a countdown to open our shutters ... he suggested using Bulb. Only works if ambient light is low and flash is providing all or most of the light.



He [ with wide brimmed hat in photo ] had three flash units which he probably triggered wirelessly for us.

These days I have a couple of YongNuo flash units which have optical triggers built in so that the camera pop-up can trigger them. The camera flash can be masked fully[ from the subject enough escaping to trigger the remote flash ] or partly to provide an appropriate level of fill light to the subject. My finger half across the pop-up was my simple and effective way of doing that

[IzzieK]

Silly question; what kind of flashes (make and model) do you have?

The question is not silly Manfred but understanding is not so ...I just need to understand how to work the two flashes away from my camera. Anyway, I have a couple of Yong Nuo. The first one was relic from my D90 and I love it so I bought another one when I bought my D300s. Because I photograph airplanes, both static and museum stuffs, air show events, etc., I always bring two cameras. I think I need to settle in studio type photography so I need to study lightings inside from the outside or man-made ones. Not that I lack artificial lights...I want to know what to use, how to use and how to set it up so I have choices...

[IzzieK]

Dear Kathy ...

Being a perfect newbie in this thing, (not an advanced techie) the thing that confuses me are the terminologies -- optical slave, optical triggers, or radio triggers...I once or twice went to the Strobist but there are so much information there that I told myself I'll want to learn later. I haven't been back since. I just need a simple set-up, just like what John mentioned or that photo nut guy from New Zealand mentioned (I wish he put his name in his profile...)

Thank you very much for your response. You have taught me a lot...I think I understand what John was saying about Commander Mode, about setting it up. One thing I do not want to do too is use my popup flash. I just want to know how operate the two flashes off camera.

[Manfred M]

I think I understand a bit more about where you are coming from. I don't know the YongNuo units at all and understand that they have a line that varies from the very basic to some more sophisticated units You are going to have to dive into your camera manuals to figure out the specifics of your two units.

For multiple flash, the additional flash have to be triggered somehow. The two main techniques are to use your camera directly, either via the hot shoe or by using the synch cable port. I expect your D300s has one, and I know your D90 does not. The other way is to use a flash, using a master / slave setting. A master flash controls all of the other flashes; and often there is a switch or setting on the flash that allows you to select it to be either a master or a slave.

The simplest slave is an optical slave. Here the flash from one unit (the master) is used to fire the slaves. This assumes that the various flash units have an optical sensor to pick up the light from the master flash; hence the reason to dig into your manual. Some units use an infrared, rather than visible light source; but fundamentally, they work the same way.

The pop-up flash in your camera can be used as a master to trigger the slave units; but in with non-Nikon units, this will be an additional light source where you may not want it. There can be work arounds (redirect this light so it does not fall on the subject).

The advantage of this system is that, if your flashes have this capabilitiy, you don't need any other devices to trigger them. The disadvantage is that you do need a clear optical path, otherwise the slave units will not fire. The other issue is that if you are in a room with other people doing the same thing; every time someone fires a flash, all of the other units will go off as well; which could affect your image (worst case) and will definitely drain your batteries more quickly.

The Nikon CLS system (requires Nikon Speedlights) takes care of some of these problems; and you can directly control your flashes from your camera (it uses the built-in flash). These lights communicate with the camera's processor, so that camera controls all of the slaves directly. This system works by emitting a pre-flash, measuring the light and adjusting the output for all the flashes. By assigning specific ranges and channels to the flashes, they can be controlled independently and can be isolated from other people using flashes in the same area you are shooting in. Just like the other optical triggers, the flashes have to be able to be in line of sight for the CLS system to work.

In theory, one can connect flashes together using synch cords; but this gets messy and I have never seen it used with more than a single flash in practice.

The other way of controlling flashes is through radio triggers. These are avaiable across a series of price poinits and vary from a simple ability to fire the flash, to full remote control of the units. You need a transceiver on both the camera and each flash (although you could use a combination approach where you can use a combination of radio triggers and optical triggers. The advantage is that you do not need line of sight to use these, and the disadvantage is the cost. I use the PocketWizard line, but these are the premium product. There are other options out there.

[IzzieK]

Dear Manfred...I have been looking into my manuals yesterday and got an idea how to use the Commander but I still lack the connections to fire off my flash off camera but I understand what you mean now...with my manual and your explanation it had helped me a lot. Thank you very very much. I really appreciate it that you always comes to my aid in my days of ignorance... I have two other books on the D300s but they are just an elaborate version of the manual. All helped too.

Optical slaves would have been nice in one of my assignments in June where will take me (and some others) at the Restoration and Presidential hangar portion of our USAF Museum tours, all separate days and all indoors, some outdoors too but I am ready for outdoor shots as I always bring two cameras with me on all of my airplane stuff assignments, one for air shot and one for ground shots. I just want to start indoors (in my little studio) to be able to learn more -- at least it is a good start as any instead of not knowing anything at all...maybe I may not even be able to bring any extra gears at all despite the special permission we got (from the government, ha!) despite that we are permitted to stay and take pictures for so many hours, no nighttime, just daytimes)...and we can always come back during that week anyway. It is an opportunity of a lifetime. I have always wanted to go there but there are so many red tapes involved visiting some areas.

I will copy and paste your message in my word processor so I can read it offline and absorb some more and look up meanings of words I do not understand. Thank you again for your help....

[inkista]

... the thing that confuses me are the terminologies -- optical slave, optical triggers, or radio triggers...

This is actually pretty simple.

Triggers = some way of communicating signals from the camera to the flash so that they are synchronized and the flash goes off while the shutter is open.

Slave = the receiving end of the triggering signal (so, connected to the flash). The sending end of the triggering signal is usually referred to as "master" or "commander" (connected to the camera).

optical = light-based. There are two types of optical slaves: "dumb" and "smart". "Dumb" slaves just use a light sensor to sense a flash burst, and use that to trigger the flash firing. "Smart" slaves are in-brand proprietary signalling systems that communicate the entire hotshoe protocol using multiple pulses of light--kind of like Morse code blipping, but by flashes. For Nikon, the "smart" slaving system is called CLS (Creative Lighting System), and is built into their flashes and prosumer/pro camera bodies.

radio/RF = radio based. Instead of using light signals, radio signals are used to communicate between the camera and the flash. The advantages of radio are that you don't need direct line-of-sight (i.e., it works through solid objects that would block light between the master and the slave in an optical system), a larger range, and better reliability (e.g., bright sunlight can sometimes overpower the optical signal). Most radio systems require a transmitter on camera as the master and a receiver connected to the flash as the slave.

I once or twice went to the Strobist but there are so much information there that I told myself I'll want to learn later. I haven't been back since.

Yup. Information overload is very easy on that site. But if you need a smaller chunk to focus in on, the Lighting 101 section is the best place to start.

...One thing I do not want to do too is use my popup flash. I just want to know how operate the two flashes off camera.

However, the pop-up flash may be the best method for doing this if you don't want to buy additional gear. As was mentioned above, you can set the pop-up flash not to contribute light to the final image, or cover it with an infrared filter to achieve the same effect.

As for your Yongnuo flashes, if you have Sn mode, then you can use CLS and the Commander mode of your built-in pop-up flash and you will have full TTL communication. If your Yongnuo flashes only have S1 and S2 slave modes, however, the only thing that will work is the sync signal, and your pop-up flash must be OUT of Commander mode (multiple pulses can set a dumb slave off early), and in Manual mode for S1, and out of Commander mode and in iTTL for S2.

[saea501]

As I understand, please correct me if I'm wrong, is that you currently have a remote shutter release but no remote flash trigger.

If that's the case, and this will greatly simplify the exercise, take a look at the Radiopopper Jrx system. I love this thing. It allows control for up to 3 units and gives you continuously variable control of the flash output from the camera from full down to the point where you can barely see any light come from the flash unit. It is RF so obstacles are not a problem and range is about a thousand feet.

Tremendous versatility and not terribly expensive.

[inkista]

... It allows control for up to 3 units ...

Three groups. Not just three individual lights.

...and gives you continuously variable control of the flash output from the camera from full down to the point where you can barely see any light come from the flash unit. ...

But you need the RPCube to do this if you're using Canikon TTL speedlights.

I will also say that it looks like manual radio triggers with remote manual power control are the next coming wave, after all the TTL-capable triggers we saw coming out over the last few years. Radiopopper were the first, though, to offer TTL RF triggers and manual triggers with power control.

And now I think they're the first non-PocketWizard company to have a module for Sekonic meters. Hope the hell Sekonic notices and puts that expansion slot back into their meters and encourages other 3rd parties to build one.

[IzzieK]

Dear Kathy and Bob...thank you very much for further information about my flash dilemma. I truly appreciate this. I will look into this radiopopper thing too to see if this is what I want.

I will be busy researching all the additional info I got today now that I make myself understood to you all what I want to achieve with my flashes. It was like pulling teeth at first but as soon as I realized that I must take into consideration that Manfred is an engineer who has to dismantle everything before giving his opinion, I went with his system of thought even though it was hard at first.

And yours too. And Jck...??? and Jeremy and of course, John. Thank you all for your help. 'Much appreciated. Love you all guys!!!