D300s replacement !

[NorthernFocus]

The 51 point chip is used in the D7100 and the D300s (DX cameras) and is a 3500DX AF module. A 51 point chip is used in the D800e (FF camera) and is a 3500 AF module. I am positive they are not equivalent because I use both a D300s and a D800e and the D800e is way better in locking on the target and getting an in-focus image. They are not even remotely close...

I've wondered about this myself. I've read that the D7100 has the same "focus module" as the D800. But as you say the performance isn't remotely close to the same. The original D300 focused better than the D7100. Not sure what the deal is.

[Black Pearl]

The pro bodies have faster AF processing (more processor power) than the amateur ones - the top ones like the D3/D4 have fully dedicated AF processors that handle the info and are incredibly fast.

The main AF sensor though is meant to be the same. As to the 3500dx v 3500FX there is no real difference I have been able to find. The newer bodies will have faster EXPEED processors so a D800 should be quicker than a D300s but because the sensors are the same you get better coverage in a DX body than you do in a FX one. I do know when you switch between systems you get a shock at how little of the frame is covered with AF points on a FX body compared to a DX one.

[pnodrog]

.........
2. A crop camera will give you greater reach and make it easier to maximise your pixels to give the best quality/enlargement.

It is slightly ironic that someone who has been justifiably satisfied with a 12.3MP DX camera makes this statement in reference to a FF camera that can be used in DX mode at 15.3MP.

Tracking a plane (or sports action) is much easier when using the wider-view of a FX camera and it also has a terrific advantage in that if you shoot in FX mode the crop can be done in PP allowing any misalignment in composition when taken to be corrected with far greater latitude.

Regardless of the photographers skill in tracking action shots with a long lens there will be occasions when a being able to adjust the crop in PP can make the difference between a missed shot or a great shot. This will of course be less significant if even the longest lens available will not fill a DX frame with the subject. When that point is reached using a 24MP DX camera may be an advantage but if 12.3MP is satisfactory it is an invalid argument.

[Black Pearl]

Not sure what one of the cameras I use has anything to do with justifying your argument - but anyhoo - this thread was started in reference to a replacement for a D300s and the reason Nikon will is likely to be making one. As far as I can tell it is aimed at the many birders who have be screaming and shouting for an updated pro DX body for years because they specifically want the reach achievable with a DX Nikon but are unhappy with the AF and buffer performance of the D7100. I have to assume that they don't want a FX body regardless of the abilities it may offer to people who can't track their subject well enough to keep it within the frame. What they want is a modern DX sensor, pro build/features, high frame rate, excellent AF and a huge buffer.

[John 2]

What a great phrase!

Isn't it just. I shall find a use for that!

I have a D7100 but I use my Fuji X more. For me (and I emphasise "in my case"), the reason is that the D7100, although only a DX camera, is still a clunking big piece of kit to carry around. On that basis, a FF would be a step backwards given that I already achieve a decent level of IQ. On the other hand , I can pick up the Fuji and just go, with the result that I now take more photographs than I ever used to. Would I be without the D7100? - no. For wildlife or say sports, Fuji doesn't hack it - yet. So for me, the horses for courses argument weighs heavy.

[John 2]

............. What they want is a modern DX sensor, pro build/features, high frame rate, excellent AF and a huge buffer.

.......... and excellent noise performance. An objective that all DX cameras will surely achieve in time at the rate that recent development across the board has been taking place. Which I think gets us back to the original post.

[AB26]

I mostly shoot airplanes, static and flying: air to air, ground to air, air to ground.

Can I join you, PLEASE? I promise to behave.
I will probably consider a D4 to do the job.

[AB26]

Birders have been wanting this for years and with the 7D replacement due soon it sounds very positive.

Personally I've no interest in a FF camera, no advantage for me, and I don't like the lesser Nikon bodies so this might temp me to finally upgrade the venerable but still fantastic D300s.

Robin,

That is an assumption I do not understand. I see these amazing BIF images and the EXIF, most likely, will reveal – EOS 1D ....
Why do the real birders use FF cameras?

http://www.outdoorphoto.co.za/galler...flight&cat=523

[NorthernFocus]

...Why do the real birders use FF cameras?...

Exactly what is it that defines a "real birder"?

[Polar01]

Andre, I like Dan want to know what you define as a "real birder". I have seen the work of local birder who does not use a "real birder" camera, or even "real birder" lens, yet compared to your link of "real birder" images, hers' are as good and in most cases I would say better. This women uses a Nikon D90 with a Sigma 150-500mm lens and shoots them from a canoe. So again what defines a "real birder"?

[chauncey]

"Real Birder"...what a load of horse hockey. I plead guilty of using a FF simply because that's what I have...no other reason at all. Even being a fledging birder, that link had a number of images, focus wise, that would have embarrassed me.
Taking bird images is simple providing one remembers the basics...like having your model complete a training period at your local branch of the Pavlov Conditioning Institute.

[NorthernFocus]

...What they want is a modern DX sensor, pro build/features, high frame rate, excellent AF and a huge buffer.

In late 2012 I finally despaired of waiting for the D300s upgrade and replaced my D300 with a D800E plus grip. Shooting in DX mode it produces 15MP images, has superior focus capability, better ISO performance(than the 300/s), a virtually bottomless buffer, and with the grip shoots at 6fps. It was an expensive way to go but it is also an awesome FF landscape camera.

So I guess I'll have to rely on Andre's judgement whether shooting a FF camera in 1.5 crop mode constitutes "real birding".

[JR1]

Real birders shoot canon

(that'll put the cat amongst the ..............)

[Black Pearl]

Real birders shoot canon

(that'll put the cat amongst the ..............)

....and canon have a new 7D in the wings - interesting times for serious crop shooters.

[Polar01]

I could not help myself, I find Canon shooter's once they have shot a bird only leave a few feathers behind.

Cheers: Allan

[NorthernFocus]

Real birders shoot canon...

Why is always Canon shooters who throw down the gauntlet? Must be some underlying insecurity issues there...

[pnodrog]

Why is always Canon shooters who throw down the gauntlet? Must be some underlying insecurity issues there...

You are to blame mentioning a 36MP Nikon camera...... Think about the insecurity that must engender.

[NorthernFocus]

You are to blame mentioning a 36MP Nikon camera...... Think about the insecurity that must engender.

Actually, I believe I mentioned a REALLY expensive way of getting a 15MP cropped sensor camera because Nikon refuses to put an up to date cropped sensor into a body with pro features So the appropriate response from a position of confidence would have been hysterical laughter. Though if the laughter was coming from a 7D owner it would be unintelligible through the noise...

[pnodrog]

Actually, I believe I mentioned a REALLY expensive way of getting a 15MP cropped sensor camera because Nikon refuses to put an up to date cropped sensor into a body with pro features So the appropriate response from a position of confidence would have been hysterical laughter. Though if the laughter was coming from a 7D owner it would be unintelligible through the noise...

You obviously live in a very remote part of Alaska where 7D owners can not lay their hands on you.

[NorthernFocus]

You obviously live in a very remote part of Alaska where 7D owners can not lay their hands on you.

Not a problem. Very low light conditions up here nearly all the time. They'd never spot me unless they borrow some Nikon gear. And if they do that I'll be instantly justified and safer yet

For some reason this whole discussion reminded me that I need a new anchor for my boat....