P/P advice

**JasonS** · 30th April 2014, 07:21 PM

After a serious rookie mistake (trying to take picture with no memory card in the camera), I was finally able to take this shot of the sun trying to break through the clouds and sand after a sandstorm. Just not sure what to do/how to p/p this photo more than the few adjustments I've made. It's very dark but can't seem to do much about that. Suggestions?

**Shadowman** · 30th April 2014, 07:47 PM

I like it as it is.

**Geoff F** · 30th April 2014, 07:49 PM

Depends on what you want from the scene and what your software is capable of doing, Jason.

I would probably increase the brightness slightly until the highlights are about to over expose but retain those dark and moody shadows. Do you have anything along the lines of Curves Adjustment? That is what I would use.

OK, with layers and masks etc you could get quite clever but that won't help if it isn't an option for you.

**Nancy Moran G** · 30th April 2014, 08:35 PM

I like it! Would he be able to use a blend of 2 or 3 shots if he wants to get more detail?
My son was at Shanks, Salerno and a few others - thanks for serving!
Nancy

**davidedric** · 30th April 2014, 08:37 PM

I could maybe make a couple of suggestions, but if you can keep finding images like that I'm looking forward to seeing some more!

Dave

**DanK** · 30th April 2014, 08:41 PM

It's a striking image as it is. I agree with Geoff: the starting point for more PP is what you would like it to look like. If it were mine, I would want to bring out the contrast more in parts of the sky. Geoff's suggestion of a curves tool seems like a good place to start, if that is what you want, although localized adjustments might be called for as well.

**saea501** · 30th April 2014, 08:55 PM

I'm with John and Dan.....I like it as is.

**FrankMi** · 30th April 2014, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by JasonS

I was finally able to take this shot of the sun trying to break through the clouds and sand after a sandstorm. Just not sure what to do/how to p/p this photo more than the few adjustments I've made. It's very dark but can't seem to do much about that. Suggestions?

Hi Jason, a number of folks have rightfully indicated that it is up to you to decide what you want the result to look like, then work toward that goal. Moreover, if WE know what you want it to look like, we can be a whole lot more helpful.

Here is something I do to resolve that issue. I collect images that I REALLY like and spend time trying to determine why those particular images appeal to me more than any of the others. From those decisions I learn a whole lot about what is becoming 'my style' and can more easily determine what I want MY images to look like. You could call this the process of 'developing your vision'.

Once I know that, then I also know exactly what I want to achieve in the final result. That directs my image plan from the time I contemplate exactly how I'm going to shoot the scene to the time I finish post processing. It dictates everything from the camera and settings I'll want to use to what I'll need at shoot time to get the most out of the image given the PP techniques I plan to apply. Hope this helps!

**IzzieK** · 30th April 2014, 10:06 PM

Jason...I like this shot a lot. It brings out mood of the place. What I am more concerned about is the size of your picture...if you can resize it to about 1200 or 1600 on the longest side, we can have a better shot to look at. As you may well know, I love clouds. Here Mickey Mouse is a little too small but the arrow pointing to the left is nice and clear. And oh, Duffy Duck on the right would have been more separated.

Honestly, I like the sepia treatment you made here...

**Brev00** · 1st May 2014, 01:37 AM

Sometimes, I find the frustrations I feel with a particular shot have a way of positively influencing my next attempt. It seems to me that you want a brighter more saturated image. One key for getting the most out of an image is to shoot raw. That way it is pretty straightforward to brighten an image in the first steps of the raw conversion. It is also easy to alter the white balance and tint which can often make a big difference along with the exposure and blacks settings in getting a colorful result. Now, if you did not shoot raw, there is nothing you can do about that now. You will have to adjust the file the way it is. How well you can do that might depend on your software and the quality of the file. Going forward, I would look at shooting raw and finding a decent raw processor. That will make adjusting these sorts of shots a breeze. At least I think and hope so. Fixing this might be easy for some of the members here but most seem to like it as it is. I might just add a nice frame as a finishing touch.

**JasonS** · 1st May 2014, 09:06 AM

Thanks all for the support. I guess asking a broad question as I did doesn't help to direct answers. The focus is the sun rays trying to penetrate through the thick sand, but was trying to keep the blimp on the right brighter (and now notice the blimp is out of focus).

As for software, I currently have GIMP and Elements 9 on my system, though I am still watching tutorial videos on them to learn how to use them (very limited knowledge of them right now). I'm slowly understanding the curves tool and how it affects the image, though actually adjusting it to how I enhance the image is still intimidating. I do shoot in RAW/JPEG, though I'm thinking of switching to just RAW since I mainly just use the JPEGs to review the images on screen to delete ones I don't like before downloading the rest to my system. I do have other images that used brighter EV settings, and attempted to do HDR type but the process still confuses me. Used the HDR tool in Elements but the result was an over-exposed type image.

@Nancy - Thank you. I was at Shank too in 2008.

**Stagecoach** · 1st May 2014, 09:27 AM

Hi Jason,

I like the image as it is and I suspect there's not a great deal more you can do with it. One of the things I do at times in Elements to get quick ideas of what can be done is to change the Layer type from 'Normal' to 'Soft Light' (or others) where you can then quickly alter the opacity and see the affects.

As an example this mod is simply changed to 'Soft Light' with around 50% opacity, giving the suns rays a boost. Not saying it's an improvement but it sometimes gives me a bit of inspiration.

Grahame

**ajohnw** · 1st May 2014, 11:55 AM

Following Dan's suggestion I bought out the cloud detail via contrast adjustments but frankly prefer the original. I don't think it needs anything doing to it really.

Assuming Jason doesn't mind others PP his shots. I used "subtle" tone mapping, globally and then a little more locally on the clouds. There probably is some scope for adjustment this way. I doubt if much more could be bought out from what is there -hence the quotes. Tried a curves brush but it tended to brighten the clouds too much.

John
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**Brev00** · 1st May 2014, 12:07 PM

Using the HDR feature in Elements is pretty tricky and not my favorite thing to do. Having used Elements for years (switching from 9 to 12 recently), I would try to get as close as possible in ACR. Since you have the raw file, you can determine how much you can move the exposure slider to the right. I actually like to move it enough to get some highlight warnings going. Then, I use the recovery slider (in 9) moving it to maybe 30 to bring the highlights back. Then, I set the blacks using the option key to reverse the screen and see the blacks slowly increase. I just want a spot or two of clipped blacks. In an image like this, it is important to view the actual scene, too, so the silhouettes have the right feel. You might actually need to decrease the blacks. This process is kind of like a one file HDR. You are stretching the dynamic range of the shot from 0-255. Now that the basic limits are set, you can adjust brightness, shadows, and contrast to taste. Setting white balance and tint should probably be done early in this image as that can effect the brightness of the scene (warmer usually means brighter--more reds) and all the settings i just described. I like to play with the presets, clicking cloudy, shady, auto, and back to daylight to get a feel for the various choices and adjusting from there. If there are whites in a scene, I will use the white balance dropper to find a neutral wb. Not really appropriate here.

I have found that the ACR in Elements is plenty powerful for me. If the file is pretty good, I can process the raw and have little left to do in Elements. My approach to processing shifted when I read Rob Sheppard's advice to get as much done in ACR as possible. Good luck.

**ajohnw** · 1st May 2014, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by JasonS

Thanks all for the support. I guess asking a broad question as I did doesn't help to direct answers. The focus is the sun rays trying to penetrate through the thick sand, but was trying to keep the blimp on the right brighter (and now notice the blimp is out of focus).

As for software, I currently have GIMP and Elements 9 on my system, though I am still watching tutorial videos on them to learn how to use them (very limited knowledge of them right now). I'm slowly understanding the curves tool and how it affects the image, though actually adjusting it to how I enhance the image is still intimidating. I do shoot in RAW/JPEG, though I'm thinking of switching to just RAW since I mainly just use the JPEGs to review the images on screen to delete ones I don't like before downloading the rest to my system. I do have other images that used brighter EV settings, and attempted to do HDR type but the process still confuses me. Used the HDR tool in Elements but the result was an over-exposed type image.

@Nancy - Thank you. I was at Shank too in 2008.

There is a decent video on using layers to tone map with the GIMP on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMlKVDjJFfY

There is also a lot of video's here but they do go on a bit at times not related to the tuition offered. They seem to be done by some one who didn't know much about the GIMP when they started - sort of helps maybe. Layers - I'm finding taking the basic ideas and playing around with variations and layer types can be useful.

Often a waste of time but sometimes something useful crops up.

http://blog.meetthegimp.org/table-of-contents/

This site is very good for certain things, probably the best of the lot

http://blog.patdavid.net/2011/10/get...yer-masks.html

John
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**JasonS** · 1st May 2014, 12:15 PM

Again, many thanks. I do like the way the rays are enhanced on your version, stagecoach, even if ever so lightly.

Originally Posted by ajohnw

Assuming Jason doesn't mind others PP his shots

No, I don't mind at all, especially when a)I'm asking for advice or people giving advice and b) when it allows me to see the type of changes made when someone describes the processes they used so I have a visual guidance on p/p methods.

**Polar01** · 1st May 2014, 02:29 PM

Jason just a quick question, what are you using for post production so I can hopefully remember for the future. I ask this because it would not help you by suggesting you do something when the program that you are using is unable to do that.

Cheers: Allan

**JasonS** · 1st May 2014, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by Polar01

Jason just a quick question, what are you using for post production so I can hopefully remember for the future. I ask this because it would not help you by suggesting you do something when the program that you are using is unable to do that.

Cheers: Allan

I am currently attempting, keyword there lol, to learn to use GIMP and Elements 9. Due to the slow internet here, I am currently downloading the tutorial videos by PhotoAdvanced for GIMP on youtube. I am in the process of looking for some easy to follow tutorials on Elements 9.

**Richard Lundberg** · 4th May 2014, 10:10 PM

I have been seeing this when I open this forum:
"it appears that you have not posted on our forums in several weeks. Why not take a few moments to ask a question, help provide a solution, or just engage in a conversation with another member?"
Well. this thread is the reason why not.
I don't mean to disrespect a member serving in the 'Stan, but this image, according to the EXIF was taken at f/16 at 1/250 in the dark. Yet all of you treat it as if it is a serious attempt to portray something. Apparently there are some objects in the foreground. Whatever means was used to upload it has reduced the resolution to zilch. This is why I don't comment. There's nothing to say. I don't believe any pp can save a grossly underexposed image. I tried the exposure slider in ACR for no clipping, object recognition, and object detail but the results were not really worth the effort.

**Stagecoach** · 5th May 2014, 12:59 AM